STL234: When animation inspires your furniture designs
Mike, Barry, and Ben discuss their favorite movies for spotting great furniture, whether a mirror polish counts for sharp, and if anybody ever really takes apart hide glue joints.Question 1:
From Ariel:
There are tv shows with sets that have great furniture. One great example is Frasier and another with a very different style is The Gilmore Girls especially the grandparent’s house but not only. I’m sure there are many others and also movies. What are some favorites of the STL crew?
Wilbur Pan’s fantastic Tumblr.
Giveaway time!
The winners have been selected. Congratulations to wbfinewoodworking, ErikHinkston, and Chap0120!
To enter to win a TailSpin Tools collinear dovetail marker set (angle of your choice), leave a comment below with your next dovetailing project. Three winners will be randomly selected. Due to giveaway rules and regulations, and shipping restrictions we are going to keep this simple and make it open to US residents only. Please, don’t ruin it for everyone.
For more information and a much better explanation of collinear marking, check out the video on the TailSpin website.
Question 2:
From Todd:
I’m flattening the back of PM-V11 plane iron. I typically go 1K waterstone -> 6K waterstone -> 8K shapton glass. However, I’ve never really achieved that nice mirror finish on the back like I’ve seen in the magazines, as well as taking classes with Garrett Hack.
Last night, I used:
1K -> 4K (Norton Combo)
-> 6K (King brand)
-> 8K (Norton Combo)
-> 8K Shapton glass stone.
To see if I could learn more about these stones and if I could get a minimal scratch pattern, and perhaps that elusive mirror finish. I found that going from 1K to 4K grit I was pretty close to mirror finish near the cutting edge. Going to 6K it looked like a step back, the scratch pattern seemed cloudier. Thinking that different brands of water stones may have different grit ratings, I returned to the 4K stone and got pretty close to mirror finish. I flipped the Norton to the 8K side and like the 6K, the scratch pattern using the Norton 8K seemed cloudier(see photo). Again returned to the 4K and being confused got close to mirror finish.
Lastly, I went to the 8K shapton glass stone. And yet again seemed like a step backwards compared to the 4K.I can understand differences in manufacturers and their grit scale, but I’m really puzzled why the 4K is more mirror like. I noticed when using the 4K it removes a lot of steel then makes a slurry that I can push/pull the plane blade through easily. The higher grits don’t seem to make the slurry that quickly and sometimes the blade suctions to the stone making it difficult to move. I frequently flattened the water stones, so they should be flat and fresh abrasions. I’m starting to wonder if 4K is the new 16K grit.
Segment: All-Time Favorite…
Barry – Tool Chest
Ben – McLaughlin Stick with a nail as demonstrated in the video below:
Mike – I don’t know how to sum this one up. -Ben
Question 3:
From Kevin:
Hello Ben, Mike, Barry, Anissa and/or whoever is sitting in this week. Love the show to pieces.
So which of these have you ever actually done:
-Reversed a hide glue joint
-Adjusted the height of shelves on a bookcase after you filled it with books and knick-knacks (like Mike’s extensive collection of Precious Moments figurines)
-Used the “Golden Ratio” to set your proportions on a design
Thanks as always and stay safe and healthy,
Every two weeks, a team of Fine Woodworking staffers answers questions from readers on Shop Talk Live, Fine Woodworking‘s biweekly podcast. Send your woodworking questions to [email protected] for consideration in the regular broadcast! Our continued existence relies upon listener support. So if you enjoy the show, be sure to leave us a five-star rating and maybe even a nice comment on our iTunes page.
Comments
Thanks for the great podcast! Keep up the good work! My next dovetail project will be an apothecary chest (medium size) using a variety of cigar boxes as drawers. Please enter me in the tool giveaway. Cheers from Texas!
I am a lifetime metal worker who has recently gotten into woodworking. I would like to start my first ever dovetail project. I was thinking simple drawers to go under a workbench. Thanks for the great podcast!
I'm in the relatively early stages of woodworking as a hobby and haven't attempted dovetails yet - looking forward to it but apprehensive. Would love to get my hands on a tool like this to get started. Thanks for the podcast to at least help me know how much I don't know!
Great podcast! My next dovetail project (and my first dovetail project) will be a serving tray that Chris Schwarz wrote an article about years ago.
My next dovetail project will be a drawer for a side table.
I thought I was alone in liking at furniture in movies and TV shows. Now I’ll have to do the same with cartoons. I’m even more distracted by the furniture in decorating magazines and TV shows. Speaking of being distracted about background furniture during the whole podcast on YouTube I was distracted by the background in Barry’s room, especially the shelf which eventually he and Mike talked about. The comments on sharpening were helpful. I keep hearing form other woodworkers that most of us don’t know what sharp is. While that’s true, as Mike said, as long as I get the results I want then I’m sharp enough. As for the Golden Ratio I have used that in a trophy base I made for our basset hound club (photo attached). I’ve sort of used it in some furniture designs but agree that it can be too confining at times. As far as I can remember I used hide glue many years ago. It was the only glue I had at the time but I’ve never dismantled a hide glue joint. There are a few times that I wished that I had used hide glue instead of Titebond though. I would loved to be able to recluse a joint like Barry said he did on that shelf. As for drilling all the holes for adjustable shelves, I hate doing that but have on many projects over the years. I like Mike’s approach to just nailing on cleats that can be removed and placed somewhere else or drilling just a few holes. I’m going to try the latter method the next time I make anything with shelf pins.
Another great podcast Ben, Barry and Mike.
My next dovetail project will be a chest of drawers to put tools for my shop. I'm not using dovetails to be precious. It's just for the practice making dovetails which I haven't done a lot. This chest will go on top of another one that I built to put tools in. It will give me an opportunity to see how (if) I have improved. 1-8 ratio.
Love your podcasts !!
I have metal drawers on my workbench however they are now very rusty and difficult to open. Since I will remain in the house for a few more months I have decided to replace the rusty drawers with right sized wooden ones. No better way to practice dovetails than to have them where I see them daily.
Coming soon: a tool chest with dovetailed joinery. Why? ‘Cause Barry persuaded me I need a tool chest to sit on, and Chris Schwarz persuaded me that it should be strongly built. ‘Nuff said.
On to the precious metal ratios for a moment, if I may. The Golden Ratio is no doubt the more well-known of the two, and is famous for its alleged near-ubiquity in the universe. Geometers of ancient times marveled at its use in producing and understanding regular pentagons, and were astonished to discover that the ratio is what we now call an irrational number, as is its more famous cousin, π. The Golden Ratio, approximately equal to 1.618, is also known as phi (φ), and is said to be found everywhere from the arrangement of leaves spiraling around a stem to intra-atomic distances in some atoms. Mario Livio wrote a popular book glamorizing/romaticizing the ratio. A not-insignificant number of scientists and mathematicians, however, encourage us not to get carried away, suggesting that for any particular ratio, one can find examples of it in all sorts of places if one just looks hard enough.
The Silver Ratio (actually 1:1 + √2 ≈ 2.414) is a close cousin of the Golden Ratio, though less famous. For what it’s worth, cot π/8 = the Silver Ratio. (Isn’t that special? ;-p ) The Silver Ratio, like the Golden Ratio, is sometimes claimed to have darn near magical properties. And I guess if one believes enough in the magic, one can find it.
Now, why did I go on a bit about ratios? As prelude to comment about dovetail ratios. And here’s the comment: There’s nothing magical about 1:6, 1:8, or 14º, or whatever. There is a range of acceptable values; as Mike says (in many contexts), “trust your eye”. It’ll give you what you want here, too. Now, that being said, if you’re gonna buy (or win!) dovetail markers, just pick one of the standard ones that are most likely available and go with it. Of those, I happen to like 1:8, though not for any particular reason.
Great Episode guys! My next dovetail project will either be a bread box for my wife to accent the kitchen we just remodeled, or I am going to be making dual captains beds for my daughters, so lots of drawers! Thanks
Great podcast! My next dovetail project will be a whiskey cabinet in butternut. Thanks for all the work you do with the magazine and the podcast.
I've been a subscriber since FWW #1, and I love the podcast - always something new.
I'm planning to make a Dutch-style toolbox with dovetails on the bottom. The dovetail gauge looks awesome. Enter my name please.
Love the podcast! My next dovetail project will be building some tool drawers for the Chris Schwarz inspired workbench I'm starting to build.
Thanks for all the informative and entertaining content, as always.
Great to hear video games mentioned on the podcast. My next project with dovetails is going to be a couple matching nightstands for my wife and I. The drawer carcass is shifted down relative to the top, so I'm thinking a dovetailed carcass with dovetailed drawers. Haven't done many dovetails before so hoping to learn a lot and not make too many mistakes.
My next dovetail project is a box for my grandson's graduation, in which his grandmother will present his other grandfather's favorite watch.
Really enjoyed hearing your discussion on animation and movies! Kiki's Delivery Service is a personal favorite of my fiance's.
I'm currently working on a dovetailed drawer box to hold a second computer monitor next to my desk along with useful office supplies in the drawers.
Thanks for the continually excellent podcasting!
Excellent episode all!
I want to make dovetailed gift boxes for all of our kids for Christmas this year.
My next dovetails will be for the drawers on my hand saw & plane till. I've got two drawers done and five to go. In retrospect, doing my first non-practice dovetails in pine might not have been the wisest choice...
Planning on making some dovetailed drawers for shop storage
I really enjoy the podcast! I pick up quite a bit of knowledge. I may or may not put it to use. My new project is to dovetail a small case to make a saw till for my shop.
Love the podcast! I never miss an episode. My next dovetail project is an over the oven spice rack shelf.
I came hoping to find links to the films that were referenced. I am sure a still from them would be considered 'fair use' too...
My next and first dovetail project is really to just cut a few sets as practice projects so I can get this skill down. Up until now I’m great with the PC jig and a router but it’s pretty limiting in what you can accomplish
I would love to use those dovetail guides on a memory box I’m making for an angel baby
My next dovetail project is a sofa table inspired by Tim Coleman's use of geometric patterns in laminations.
I am building a stand/cover for my sister's electronic keyboard with dovetailed joinery.
Hi,
In response to MP with dimensional problems, I suffered that problem for years. I was a bit of a Tim the Toolman Taylor who always tried to 'beef' things up to a man sized piece of furniture.
I have learnt my lesson and stick to the plans now.
For my next dovetail project, I am going to build MP's essential tool chest (wish me luck) and it will be my first time I will be incorporating dovetails into a Project.
Keep up the good work, I enjoy listening to your podcasts and I gain heaps of knowledge from them.
As always, a super podcast. My next dovetails will be two drawers for the base of a bookcase I’m building for my youngest daughter. The case top and sides I dovetailed a couple of weeks ago using what I learned building Peckovitch’s wall hung tool cabinet.
Keep up the great work! I note on my calendar the days STL is expected to drop ‘cos it’s always a highlight of that particular day.
I love the podcast. I have subscribed to Fine Woodworking since issue 1. My next dovetail project will be a bedside table and chest of drawers. All of the drawers will be dovetailed. I am currently in the design stage.
My next dovetail project is a drawer on a bedside shelf I promised to build two years ago.
Also, in the film Parasite, all of the Parks' (the rich family) furniture was custom made by furniture maker Bahk Jong-Sun. I'd like to use the white oak dining chairs as inspiration one day.
Another great show. My next dovetail project will be a pair of matched coronet boxes. They'll hold coronets for a baron and baroness in a medieval re-enactment group.
Hey Ben, my next dovetail project will be a case for essential oils that I will be making for a friend. Or more likely a test case that I'll make first. Love the pod.
My next dovetail project is some cabinet drawers. These would make life really easy!
Todd, way too many stones. There are some minor differences in grit size depending on the maker and grit sizing standard used, but not enough to worry about. You can and I do mix brands without issue.
First lap your stones flat and bevel the edges.
Mark the back with a sharpie, (diagonal lines), if you are not removing ALL the ink in 5-6 single direction laps with your 4k, you are not flat. If not flat, re- ink and remove with the 1k, then remove 1k stria with 4k, and 4k stria with 8k. Check by marking back with sharpie and remove it all in 5-6 laps on the 8k. An edge does not get straight until at least 8k or higher. You will only need to flatten the back once.
Make sure you are honing all the way to the edge and have not rounded the edge, you should have a fine burr, or look at it with magnification.
A quick easy test is to look straight down on an edge with magnification 10-60X. If you see shiny reflection, the bevels are not meeting or you have chips. You can also run a sharpie or Qtip along the edge lightly, if you feel snagging you have chips or wire edge.
Once the back is flat cut the bevel, ensure you are honing to the edge, use single direction strokes until you form an even burr. Then flip to the back and use the David Charlesworth technique of making a micro bevel on the back edge with a steel pocket rule.
If you want shiny, strop on any good metal polish, on leather, MDF or cardboard, (inside of a cereal box). Make sure to keep the back flat on the strop. If you roll the edge, no problem, reset the micro bevel with the Charlesworth micro-bevel technique.
If you do not want to polish the whole back, just use the Charlesworth technique. You do not need to polish the whole back. For chisels just polish about an inch.
My next dovetail project will be to remake a liquor cabinet that I made for a friend for a wedding gift. At the time I used rabbets for the case but would like another go at it using dovetails.
Great podcast guys! My next dovetail project will be a tool chest like Chris Schwarz's anarchist tool chest.
My next dovetail project will be a small box to hold my sons "magic the gathering" cards.
Comment bribe accepted! I will be working on a jewelry box based with dovetailed drawers next winter.
Thanks for continuing the series. If you want some real TV furniture jealousy, try Downton Abbey.
My next big dovetailed project is a walnut medicine cabinet for the in-law's new bathroom made from some rough sawn off their farm.
Excellent episode as always. Great mash-up topic on the "Woodworking in Films" conversation. I thought I was the only Whacko that looked at that stuff :-)
My next dovetail project is a set monitor-stand/organizer for my office desk. I have to look at it for 8 hours a day, so my dovetails (and self-respect/pride) could really use the help of those spiffy layout tools.
Thanks for the great show!
Great episode. Just getting into this woodworking rabbit hole, but having never really been that interested in furniture I find myself looking at it more and more. My next dovetail project will most likely be a jewelry box for my daughter's graduation.
My next dovetail project
I have just purchased a pool table in poor shape
I plan on using it as a donor table for the slate and some other components
I’m going to do the top live edge walnut with maple bow ties for marker points and do the side walnut and maple with huge raised dovetails locking the corners
Btw this is my first time listening and I was thinking how interesting can a woodworking pod cast be but not only was I engaged I learned stuff too.
I can’t wait to use the nail in a stick
Your discussion on the Golden Ratio (and Silver Ratio) reminded me of the final words in Edward Tufte's 'The Visual Display of Quantitative Information':
"Design is choice. The theory of the visual display of quantitative information consists of principles that generate design options and that guide choices among options. The principles should not be applied rigidly or in a peevish spirit; they are not logical or mathematically certain; and it is better violate any principle than to place graceless or inelegant marks on paper. Most principles of design should be greeted with some skepticism, for word authority can dominate our vision, and we may come to see only through the lenses of word authority rather than with our own eyes.
What is to be sought in designs for the display of information in the clear portrayal of complexity. Not the complication of the simple; rather the task of the designer is to give visual access to the subtle and difficult-that is -- the revelation of the complex."
A flowery version of the toilet-paper and sock theorem for sure - but I think the thesis stands: "Design is choice." No matter what the discipline - if whatever you are designing doesn't function, no one will care that your stood your ground with the Golden Ratio.
My next dovetail project will be a Tea cabinet box. thank you for a great podcast.
My next dovetail project is making a guitar stand with cable and accessory drawers.
Great podcast. I especially liked the "arm hair shaving" part.
My next dovetails will be for boxes for a friend's newborn. Thanks!
Great podcast, thank you! I'd like to make my first jewelry boxes for some ladies in my family that have been through a rough patch.
Next dovetail project: drawers for my farmhouse kitchen
Hey guys, love the podcasts. I've been a Fine Woodworking reader since 1993. Been waiting all of these years to finally really set up a shop. Now my dream is coming to fruition. I've seen the Tailspin video and would love to try these dovetail tools. I've got lots of neat little box ideas in mind as gifts for my family. For now I am practicing, practicing, practicing!
Enjoy listening to your show. My next dovetail project will be making drawers for a workbench.
Thank for the podcast guys! My next dovetail project will be drawer boxes for a breadbox that hangs on the wall.
I am planning on a dovetail jewelry cabinet for my wife for our 19 year anniversary coming up in 2 months.
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