Replies

1. 
   GRW | May 02, 2007 01:32am | #1

   I tried the 1 micron bag, but found it clogged the bag up quickly. This reduced the air flow through the bag, and reduced my dust collecting strength, often causing my 4" DC duct to clog with shavings.. The cannister filters have pleated filters which increase the surface area.
   I use the cannister filters on almost all my tools now, and plan to be at 100% cannister filtration within a couple of years.

2. 
   Knotscott | May 02, 2007 02:14am | #2

   I switched from upgraded 1 mic bags to a cannister a little less than 2 years ago, and added a clear bottom bag. The cannister flows more air than both bags combined, plus it's easier to clean....the bags are messy and more time consuming. An incredible price of $96 shipped for a JDS cannister is what prompted me....at the going rate of $200, I'd have a tough time justifying the cost, but I am quite pleased with the change.

   You might check and see what kind of price Wynn Environmental has on their cannisters.

3. 
   Drew1house | Sep 05, 2007 07:46pm | #3

   The cannister works better because when you spin the pleat beater on the top of the thing it knocks a lot of the dust into the lower bag and almost instantly your suction is back up. Much easier to deal with... another thing I noticed is that the better the filtration the faster the bag plugs up. With the lower filtration bags you get more time before it plugs but every time the DC starts and the bag inflates you get a cloud of sawdust. Not the case with the cannister.

   Drew

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Sep 05, 2007 08:00pm | #4

   Drew,

   I've been wondering 'bout that. 

   I'm getting the Delta 50-760 and would like to price cannisters for it and wondered how much better they are.  That big ploom of dust on startup kinda defeats the purpose of the whole thing, unless the DC is in another room.

   My plan, at least initially is to connect to each machine as needed till I can get the piping in place.  Mine will be a very short run(s) as most everything is clustered in the center of the woodshop ala Mr. DeVilbis' design.  Ultimately the DC will be on the first floor below.

   Gravity is my friend, with an assist from Delta,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

1. 
   Jfrostjr | Sep 07, 2007 04:20pm | #6

   BobIf you can swing it, a cyclone is the way to go. I had, for years, a Penn State DC, first with the 1 micron bag and then the pleated thingy. The latter was definitely an up grade but was nothing compared to the performace I get from the cyclone. I chose the Oneida because a couple of inches lower was necessary for me.My dust problems are over now - and I'm not looking back. No more chip bags to empty ( and reintroduce dust to the shop in the processs.)Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Sep 07, 2007 06:44pm | #7

   Hi Frosty,

   Here's the way I'm looking at it:

   I'm a hobbyist which translates to part time use of my woodshop.  Although I plan on retiring soon this will/should mean more shop time.  I only run one machine at a time.  There are NO time pressures involved.  My 16' x 20' woodshop is on the second floor.  This is key to my future plans.

   Short Term Solution:

   There is a Pioneer overhead dust filter that I run whenever I plan on generating dust.  16 Gal. ShopVac that currently services everything when in use.

   Initially I'm thinking that I will keep the cannister equipped DC in the shop, connecting to each as they are used.   The TS/Router(housed in right extension table)/Outfeed-Downdraft Table will all be connected via ducts & blast gates to the DC via a central plenum under the Outfeed Table.

   Right now the plenum is simply a 6" section of 26 Ga. metal pipe that extends down thru the floor to the woodshed below.

   The only outboard power tools (from the plenum) that I have are a RAS, CMS, Planer & 6" Jointer.  These will be connected directly as needed/used.  The Shop Fox mortiser is connected to a 16 Gal. ShopVac (HEPA Filter) which works very well right now.  Currently the SV also services the RAS & CMS.  I'm experimenting with the RAS & CMS to get these beasts to focus their crap into one place using wings (similar to forestgirls setup).

   Suffice to say that I don't have the where with all to install a separate 220v circuit.  Therefore I feel that the Delta 50-760 1½ HP w/cannister - 1,250 CFM should satisfy my needs.  I'm awaiting delivery of it in the next few days.

   All of this is in progress and partially constructed.

   Long Term Solution:

   Move the DC downstairs and connect it to the plenum.  If necessary I can make a  dust bin and remove the cannister completely as I can just blow everything outside at that point if I need to.  Also, if I need additional capacity then a Cyclone may well be installed.  There is an existing 220 receptical downstairs

   I know this sounds complicated but the bottom line is, it's a vast improvement over last year when I had no DC!  I realize I'm doing a balancing act between what I can afford and protecting my lungs.  To that end I have a quality respirator that I wear religiously whenever I'm generating dust. 

   It hangs in a prominent place so I don't forget to use it!

   Regards,

   P. S. All told my calculations indicate that I will have no more than 12' of ductwork in the entire system!Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

1. 
   gboot | Sep 07, 2007 08:47pm | #10

   I'm a hobbyist also and have the Delta 50-760 in my basement shop with PVC overhead pipe to 4 drops where I use flex and blast gates to run one tool at a time. I don't think the cloth bag is quite 1 micron, but it is a very good bag. I have never seen a cloud of dust when starting it up. The set-up works well for me.
   You mentioned long term moving the DC to another floor. The DC moves a lot of air , you would need to consider how to replace this air in your shop.

2. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Sep 07, 2007 08:56pm | #11

   Not a problem. 

   My shop is so untight that when I start the ShopVac it sucks flys in from outside! :-)

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

2. 
   t_mauery | Sep 07, 2007 08:22pm | #8

   If you are considering a cannister you might want to check this out:

   Filter: http://www.wynnenv.com/35A_series_cartridge_kit.htm

   Installation: http://www.wynnenv.com/delta_50-760.htm

   I don't have one yet, but it's in the plans.  By the way, I've been really pleased with the 50-760.

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Sep 07, 2007 08:29pm | #9

   AWESOME!

   Thanks VERY MUCH!

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

2. 
   Carya | Sep 10, 2007 12:37am | #15

   Very interesting. I have the 1.5hp Delta and emptied the darn bag a few times before connecting the plastic lid from LV (4" version). I've almost filled a large garbage can in the last couple weeks and there is hardly any dust/chips in the bottom of the poly bag. Anyone know how that compares with a real cyclone? I'm happy with it so far, but when I start cutting into some of the nice exotic wood in storage, I might look at this expensive filter. Shop is in the basement. The wife already notices the nice smell in the house when I've been cutting cedar. That might be a clue to how effective the 1 micron bag is. I've been using the shop vac and central vac for the router as is. Hooking up the rigid to the veritas and the beam to the bosch REALLY eliminates dust. I don't hear many people talking about central vacs but I can't believe how amazing it is for smaller tools and cleaning up. I clean out the shop vac and its pleated filter with it right there in the shop. Happens to be good at cleaning the house too (that's my job also). Permanent, maintenance free bag and exhaust (clean) to the garage. Anyone know a downside about the central vac use in my shop? Andy

4. 
   Knotscott | Sep 07, 2007 12:46am | #5

   I switched from two 1 mic felt bags to a cannister....advantage cannister.

   The cannisters have 5-6 times the airflow of the bags...enough that you can add an easy-to-change plastic bag to the bottom and still have more airflow than the bags. The cannisters are easier to restore back to full flow by knocking the dust off, they're also unaffected by the lower bag filling up.

1. 
   forestgirl | Sep 08, 2007 07:39pm | #12

   "...they're also unaffected by the lower bag filling up."  I have to disagree with you there, Knotscott.  I notice a definite difference when the lower bag gets past a certain point.  What's that point?  Well, when the DC is on, and the sawdust is swirling, if it's up high enough to touch the rim of the filter, it's getting time to change the bag.

   Other than that, Amen to the cannister arrangement, much better IMHO.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

1. 
   Knotscott | Sep 08, 2007 11:16pm | #13

   ["...they're also unaffected by the lower bag filling up." I have to disagree with you there, Knotscott. I notice a definite difference when the lower bag gets past a certain point. What's that point? Well, when the DC is on, and the sawdust is swirling, if it's up high enough to touch the rim of the filter, it's getting time to change the bag.]Maybe I should rephrase that statement to say that they're "less affected"! ...OTOH, maybe I should whap you upside the head with a table leg for not emptying the bag when it's that full! Don't make me come over there! ;) :DEdited 9/8/2007 4:35 pm ET by Knotscott

   Edited 9/8/2007 4:36 pm ET by Knotscott

1. 
   forestgirl | Sep 09, 2007 12:19am | #14

   Easy there, big boy. ;-)     Remember, that's when the DC is running and the stuff's swirling up and around!  Gotta get a reference point for when it's not running, so I notice it when I'm not working and am willing to take out the time required for emptying.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)