I was in Harbor Freight the other day and picked up – on a lark – their $10 #33 Plane:
N. 33 Bench Plane
Description of Windsor Design 97544
Easy-to-use plane features a tempered high carbon steel cutter, making it perfect for general purpose work.
- Ground and polished high carbon steel base and sides
- Handsome hardwood handle
- Cutter fully adjustable for depth of cut
- 23° blade angle
Blade dimensions: 3-5/16″ L x 1.775″ W
For $10 it is at least as well made as a Groz or standard Anant. Maybe not saying much, but the tote and knob were nice. I thought if the plane was junk, they were worth the $10 alone.
Anyway, the plane was indeed useless out of the box. The mouth was gigantic, and the ‘frog’ is integral with the body. No adjustment there.
But I thought that perhaps I might try setting it up as a very high angle smoother, for Type II shavings where the size of the mouth doesn’t make much of a difference.
In about an hour I got nice paper thin shavings as shown below.
Here is what I did:
1. Remove the stud ‘adjustment’ shafts and knurled knobs. Truly useless. Use the two knurled knobs together as jam nuts and you can back the shafts out. We will adjust as you would an old-fashioned wooden plane – with a mallet.
2. I lapped the sole a bit on 320 wet dry. Not perfect, but until I could see it seemed ‘equally sanded’ all across. It was actually pretty good to start. I lapped the ‘frog’ mounting pads a bit with some Veritas lapping grit.
3. Next the iron. I have a Veritas Mk II honing guide which makes this easy. Using ‘scary sharp’ sandpaper method, I reground the primary to 25 degrees. 320 grit and baby oil. Roller arrow in ‘up’ position. Next on 1200 for first microbevel at 3-O’clock position. Finally 2000 (9 micron about) at 6 O’clock position. Effective angle is still 45 degrees or so at this point (its bevel down)
4. Now this is the step that made the thing possibly useful. Using the back-bevel setting on the Mk II, I first put a 13-degree back bevel using 1200, and then a 15-degree using 2000. Effective angle is now somewhere near 60-degrees. Went back to the last bevel setting for a few strokes to remove the burr.
Then I tried it, first setting the iron with the sole down on flat MDF, and then with a light tap or so on the fastened down iron top. Got ‘a’ and ‘b’ as shown below.
I’m going to try it next time where I might have used a scraper – around a knot – reversing grain – whatever.
Possibly I’ll try a higher angle – maybe 62 or so. Probably also add a slight camber to the iron.
As it is, it sounds good in use. The one-piece body/frog is obviously rigid. The screw-down iron clamp comes reasonably close to the iron edge – apparently giving good support and also helping rigidity. (I did sand its edge where it contacts the iron a bit).
If you have a Harbor Freight nearby and go there on occasion, you might gamble $10 – and see what you can make of one. Then let us know..:>)
Chris
Replies
Results
I'd say results are what counts, and if they're good, the rest is arm waving.
I see a great shaving, so now the questions are will it hold a setting, and will it hold an edge?
If the answers to those are yes, then I may have to go over to Harbor Freight and fill out my stable.
More Results...
As Jammersix says, results are what counts. Here are a few more.. Plane unchanged from prior example.
CherryKnorPitchPocket is a kiln dried cherry table offcut that has been in the offcut bin a few months. Original was as it came off the surface planar. There is a knot/pitch pocket showing below the front of the tote. This is after a few swipes with the HF33. You can see the original surface was uneven - there is still a low spot to the right. But the HF33 is leveling it out, and burnishing the newly planed surface very nicely.
Next is a Maple edge test. MapleFrontBeforeTopEdge shows what the grain is like at the top edge. MapleTopEdge1, 2, and 3 show the edge afterward. Grain popping nicely, no tearout, and burnished mirror smooth.
Finally, the Maple surface itself - an area with surface planar tearout - MaplePlanerTearout. And after a few passes - tearout removed. (MapleTearoutRemoved).
Throughout all of this there was absolutely no chatter, though it is a bit of a bear to push with the 60-degree cutting angle. It appears to be holding its depth just fine, and the blade has not yet doubled over..:>)
For $10 and an hour of my time, the HF33 has become a useful tool, which I will keep. Yes - I won't be using it every day. But when I run into a small box top or box side with stubborn grain, or an edge giving me tearout with my 45 degree planes, it will come out.
I'd be interested in the URL where this plane was discussed last year. I looked in a couple places (SMC etc.) and couldn't find it. I'd like to see if previous attempts to make this thing useful included removing the useless screw/nut depth adjustment, and added a high back-bevel for Type II chips/wide mouth compensation.
IMHO, the naysayers on this thread need to rethink.
Chris
URL for previous discussions on HF33
Can someone give me the Forum/URL where this was discussed last year?
Thanks!
Chris
No. 33
I bought one of these a while ago but just recently started fettling with it. The sole was close to flat to start with, but it has some pretty deep grinding/sanding/machining grooves in it that still need lapping out, at least enough to get the front of the mouth smooth, but I decided it was good enough for now. The blade and bed really didn’t need any out of the ordinary attention, but the screw cap had a raised casting error on the bottom side that needed to be flattened and the square leading edge needed rounding. The lever cap also sits about 1/4” away from the edge of the blade. I was thinking of filing the key hole longer to lower it, but this would require some serious reshaping of the cap and mouth area to let shavings pass through. I’m not particularly fond of the spokeshave style blade adjustments either and I was tempted to remove them, but there doesn’t seem to be too much room between the tote and blade to get even a small plane hammer in there and I have more experience with spokeshaves than I do wooden planes. So, I left them. They only have about a quarter turn of backlash, less than the inexpensive spokeshaves I have encountered. I put a 1/16” shim between the blade and bed this closed the mouth up to a couple hairs smaller than 1/32”. This Indian #33 isn’t half bad for $9.99.
Jammer,
Going to Harbor Freight and getting a cheap plane and fettling it is cheap fun. I believe it was Tom Lie Nielsen who said that a plane is nothing more than a jig for holding a chisel. We are not talking about brain surgery here.
Now let's talk REAL CHEAP. Cheaper than the $10 plane at HF!!!!!
HOW ABOUT FREE!
Yup. I believe that most Lie Nielsen planes are FREE. YOu have to lay out a few hundred to buy them, but when you don't reel you need them any more, you just sell them on EBay for just about what you paid for them. I gotta tell ya, using the LNs is a lot of fun. They are magnificent to use. So why not just buy ten of them, use them for five years and sell them on EBay. If history is a good teacher, then you will get your money back, and you will have had fun for five years.
I don't believe people really "Own" an LN. You are merely a caretaker of it for a while. Then you sell it to the next caretaker, and the process goes on for eternity. THese things don't wear out.
I wish you could do that with Lee Valley tools. I think they are every bit as good as Lie Nielsen, but somehow they just don't have the EBAY cache to resell at current retail. I haven't seen folks try this with expensive infill planes so I don't know if they are "free". But just check EBay at any time and you will see how close LN planes and chisels sell to new retail.. BY THE WAY, there are a few exceptions to that. One of my favorite LNs is the Bronze Edge plane, but for some reason, that one doesn't sell for close to retail on EBay. '
Have fun. And do it free. If you buy the HF plane, and fettle it for a day and try to sell it on EBay, I doubt it would sell, and you would be out $10 and a days work.
Have fun.
Mel
A questionable exercise from many perspectives
Any labor which competes with slave labor must accept the economic conditions of slave labor.
Norbert Wiener
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Norbert_Wiener
Time
Hi Roc,
I'm retired. Any hour I can get out of the house and wife and to the shop is pure pleasure. This was fun for me, and possibly productive.
If I were 'watching my (Lincoln) hours' - I'd buy LV. As I have done many times.
"Many paths, many choices".
Try a screwball path once in a while..:>)
Chris
Glad you found pleasurable adventure
I just despise HF. I can't get past it. Not that I would want to. The equivalent of one of those T-shirts with the tux printed on it showing up at the penthouse party. Glad you enjoy the real deal. LV
>Try a screwball path once in a while..:>) <
Oh you are talking to the master of the SBP.
The path less traveled has made all the difference and all that.
Looking forward to the local autumn wood work show coming up here. Hopefully there is something like that in your area that you can get out and enjoy.
Keep punchin"
Quote
You quoted a mathematician on economics?
Setting aside the obvious, that those who inhabit any ivory tower can't possibly speak to the realities of business, what has either math or slave labor got to do with Harbor Freight?
Roc,
Thanks for mentioning Norbert. I haven't thought of him since I retired. Good mind on that guy. And he used it often.
I was thinking (a dangerous thing) - taking a lousy plane and turning it into a user - is that a good thing? I did it back when I was younger and it taught me a lot. I don't do it much anymore but I wouldn't have missed it for the world. It is a "right of passage".
But why not go a step further? Why start with a lousy plane? Why not start with some nice chunks of metal and wood, and make an infill plane? That would take longer and require some more machinery (always a good thing), but you might end up being the next Holtey!
I suppose you could go even further (or is it farther)? and make your own chunks of metal but I am not interested in mining or smelting.
Things worth doing are worth overdoing (sometimes -- especially if they involve cheesecake and fresh strawberries).
What would you think of merging Knots with the website for the American Philosophical Association? The two groups have a lot in common. I can see it now -- Threads entitled "woodworking and existentialism" - St Thomas Acquinas and dovetailing - How do I know my tenon has a better fit, or can it ever be known? - Logic and professional woodworkers.
I think this idea has promise.
Have fun.
Mel
Fascinating
Thanks for sharing. How thick is the blade? And, out of curiousity, any idea why it's called a #33? One third between a #3 and #4? Or the guy making up names is too lazy to use another button?
HF 33 - Blade, Size
Hi Chris,
The blade thickness is .078 - which is about the same as a standard Stanley #3 blade (usually .078 - .082).
As mentioned recently, the plane body size is also about the same as a Stanley #3 - but the HF is definitely lighter.
As to the blade hardness and holding an edge - don't know. It seems to take me about the same amount of time to sharpen as a Stanley blade. The back-bevels definitely took longer - but then again I don't usually put 13 and 15-degree back bevels on my Stanley blades.
Chris
P.S Roc - you will be pleased to know that the HF #4 & small stamped plane set at $14.99 is a complete POS. I use the small stamped plane blade as a letter opener. The #4 body is the positive electrode in my electrolysis setup..:>)
I'm like ROC, but was still interested in this plane. The reason was that on another forum about a year ago, there was a lot of interest in this model as having great "bones". I bought mine for about $7 or $8 (IIRC). Here is what I did:
1. plane was junk out of the box: I surface ground the bottom, and then squared the sides to the sole. Out of the box the mouth sat in a deep hollow, now the sole is within a few tenths. I had to clean paint off where the blade beds as well as burrs, now the blade beds flat. The cap iron needed a bit of work, but not much to do it's job.
2. blade was junk out of the box: I didn't have time to make a new blade (yes I can do that and more), but another guy on the other forum had made a few blades and I bought one from him (A2, which I do not like). Blade was reasonably flat, but I took care of that plus sharpening and honing.
3. plane looked like crap out of the box: ugly lacquer on tote and knob, stripped off and BLO with wax cured that. Some of the metal (cap iron) was ugly chrome-I was going to remove the plating and polish, but I never got around to it.
After assembly, with a bit more tweaking, I can get .001 shavings from cherry (wood I mainly work with). Plane is a comfortable #3 size smoother, very similar in size and design to a Stanley design. I don't use it and will probably give it away or sell it one of these days.
Money into it: $8.00 plane, $30 blade 1-1/2 hours fixturing and surface grinding time for one of my machinists @$60/hr or $90, and about 3 hours of my time (no cost). Total then was $128.00 hard dollars. Even for a ham-fisted ham & egger like me, I would charge about $15/hr. Rolled up cost is now $173. Let's assume a 25% profit margin (high enough to cover undeclared fixed costs), so the final price is $216.25. Add shipping of about $15.00 and the total now is $231.25.
Makes some of the LV and LN look cheap, eh? Plus no third world slave labor!
Plus no third world slave labor!
Uhm, well...
Except for...
Well, never mind.
Some just have got to pee on the electric fence for them selves
Jammersix,
>quoted mathamatition on economics< And I quoted a president on wood working. ooop ! I mean logging. Can't confuse the two. Logging and woodworking must be kept segregated. Bad things could happen if they ever came together. Like matter and antimatter, math and economics, decent wages and work performed.
Oh and looky there (subject (title) of this post) I quoted a wood worker on psychology. Quite a good quote in my view. Very down on the ground and realistic from my personal observation. I forget who came up with it here but I thank them for it.
Cowboys
It was that cowboy comedian. I want to say "Will Rogers", but I'm not sure that's right. I don't pay a lot of attention to cowboys. I'm not sure that adding a comedian to your list of folks to quote supports your premise, but okay. I suppose I could add a quote from Chris Rock, and it would stack up with equal validity. He has some truly amusing views on economics.
The thing that escapes the ivory tower (note that I haven't said that it escapes you) is that wages are relative.
Like yesterdays newspaper......
......Old news. Forums were playing with this plane a year ago and Hock was even going to make a small run of irons for them. You overpaid. I think they were well under $10. then. Not to be too hard on you, it looks like you got it to work pretty well from see the photos. Probably a good learning experience, and maybe even a good prototype for a real hand plane. Its a size that would be handy and comfortable to hold. I did get a kick out of the comment about this being an excellent positive pole for an electrolysis setup.
Thanks Tony. Yup - looks like its been removed... At least I can't find it, no matter how I search..
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