Replies

1. 
   jackplane | Sep 28, 2004 10:46pm | #1

   Wendy,

    A 60 tooth atb blade will cut faster and produce less heat(bad for blades) than a similar 80 tooth blade, but the 80 tooth blade will leave a smoother cut.

   Price is often indicative of quality. A good blade would cost starting at 60-70 $ USD (about 4,500 Canadian <G>)

   Since you're cutting a lot of pine, I suspect most of your problem is pitch/resin buildup on the teeth. So, give it a good cleaning with lye or a commercial cleaner-see if it improves.

    If you can, refer to this month's FHB for a good article on this.

   
   

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   Edited 9/28/2004 3:47 pm ET by JACKPLANE

2. 
   Kell | Sep 28, 2004 11:01pm | #2

   Wendy,

   FWIW I recently bought a Piranha brand 30 tooth ripping blade for <$20 US and it rips like crazy alhtough the cut is a bit rough.  I just joint the saw marks off it and it's good to go.

   The problem with any combination product is that it doesn't do either job as well as a specialty blade can.  If you can be satisfied with the results and the performance of your equipment, then that's all that matters.

   Kell

3. 
   Elcoholic | Sep 28, 2004 11:04pm | #3

   Yes there are blades specifically designed for mitre saws and you should get one.  I have a 100t on my 12" SCMS and it cuts 8-10" wide 8/4 white oak like nobody's business and leaves a glass smooth finish.  There's still a little tearout with some species so I try to orient the show side up or use a sacrificial backer.  My favorite blades happen to come from "The Great White North", checkout FS Tools on the web.

   John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   The more things change ...

   We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized.  I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.

   Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC

4. 
   RonInOttawa | Sep 29, 2004 12:27am | #4

   Try the Freud 80-tooth thin-kerf billed as the "Ultra Crosscut". I have one on my Dewalt miter saw, and it goes through oak and maple like butter, with little or no chipout. It's around $90 in Ottawa, but worth every penny.

   Regards,

   Ron

5. 
   jc21 | Sep 29, 2004 01:53am | #5

   For your tablesaw I'd try Freud's LU84M011 10"x50". An excellent combo blade imho. Runs about $70 or so (US) and is also available in a Teflon coated version. Not as good as a dedicated rip or crosscut blade but about as good a combo blade I've ever used. Crosscuts very well, does a fair job of ripping and I've found it to be excellent with plywood. With a new blade it would be a good time to go over your saw and make sure everything is in adjustment (blade parellel to miter slots and fence etc, etc.). For your miter saw Freud's LU85R010 80 tooth blade is one of the best imho. Cuts very, very smooth. About $70 (US)

   
   

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   Edited 9/28/2004 6:59 pm ET by jc

6. 
   forestgirl | Sep 29, 2004 07:22pm | #6

   Wendy, in addition to putting a better blade on your saw, you should also make a zero clearance throat plate for it and, when working with problematic woods, put a backer on the fence that will give you support for the cut. 

   The Freud combo blade mentioned above is an excellent one for your table saw.  I have both that one and the Ultimate Cut-Off Blade.  The UCB is overkill for most uses, so don't feel compelled to drop a ton of money on it for your projects. 

   I'd suggest you look at Freud's Diablo line of blades.  They are less expensive than the LU professional series blades, but are quality blades.  YOu can get a 60-tooth blade for your miter and table saws (D1060X -- important to get the model number right) and, when you have the dough, pick up their 24-tooth ripping blade (costs about $25 US$).

   Since you work alot with soft woods, be sure you keep your blades clean -- the pine will tend to get pitch on them pretty quickly.  An 80-tooth blade is not going to be a versatile blade -- it will not rip well and it will not cut thicker lumber well.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

   
   

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   Edited 9/29/2004 12:34 pm ET by forestgirl

1. 
   wendy1 | Oct 05, 2004 11:50pm | #7

   Hi Forest Girl,

   Nice to hear from you. I should check the form more often. Didn't realize you left a post. NOw that I've finished building a sofa table I've decided to go ahead and try making a throat insert for my table saw.  Came out real nice. All I have to do  is rub a coat of furniture paste over it.  Hope maple is a suitable material.  Better not warp on me. For My next small project I think I'll build a  rack for my  Quick Clamps.   I'm in the process of cutting out a push shoe from an old scrap of plywood right now. Something I've been meaning to do for ages.  Saftey is # 1 on my list. My male friends are always poking fun of me for worrying so much about safety. They couldn't believe I went and purchased a  push block. They actually laughed at me.   In your opinion is a featherboard worth the investment.  I was thinking of buying the one I saw in the LeeValley mag. for $31.00 (Can.)

   Thanks for the advice. I discovered that I have a 40 tooth ripping blade in my possession so I don't have to rush out and purchase a ripping blade. Think I'll remove the 60 tooth combo blade I have on my table saw and put it on my 10" miter saw.  See how that works.  Actually the 10" 60 tooth combo Delta blade I have on the table saw  rips pretty well. It just needs like you said a good cleaning to get rid of the pitch build up.  What I need to know is whether or not the 40 tooth KingCanada ripping blade will  cut as cleanly as the 60 tooth 10"  combo blade? I'm really only using the table saw to rip boards. I usually use the miter/chop saw to crosscut. For now anyways.  I suppose for ripping the less teeth the better.. up to a point anyways. That would mean less resistance, less heat build up.

   So if the 40 tooth blade works as well as the combo 60tooth blade I won't need to bother buying any blades. I can invest my money into buying other tools for my workshop.  The 40 tooth delta blade that's on my  miter saw is hopeless. 40 teeth just doesn't cut it for cross cutting using the miter saw.

   Wendy

    

1. 
   forestgirl | Oct 06, 2004 07:45am | #8

   Hi Wendy.  Maple should be fine, especially if you finish both sides.  Partly depends how you cut it with respect to the grain.  Nice thing is, if it doesn't work, you can make a better one next time.

   For featherboard on the tablesaw I use the GripTite Magnetic Featherboard.  It can be placed anywhere on the iron/steel table, or with the full kit, placed on your fence.  The problem I see with most other retailed featherboards is that their position on the saw is severely limited and many (the ones that are clamped on) are time-consuming to install. 

   The 40-tooth blade may or may not cut as smoothly as the 60-tooth.  Are they both the same brand??  My 24-tooth Freud Diablo ripping blade makes a way smoother cut than the cheap Delta combo blade that I used to have did, but not as smooth as the 40- and 80-tooth Freud blades I have.  More to the point, is it smooth enough for what you are doing?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   wendy1 | Oct 06, 2004 08:48pm | #9

   Hi Forest Girl,

   The 2 blades are different brands. the 40 tooth blade is King Industrial blade (made in Canada) the 60 tooth combo is a Delta blade.  I think I'm probably better off buying a Freud 50/60 tooth combo blade for the table saw.  I'll probably go with the Lu 85r010 series.   Are your blades teflon coated?

   Now I must go  in search of the Grip Tite magnetic featherboard. Where can I purchase one of those in Canada. LOL  Have you had a look at the featherboard featured in the LeeValley 2004/2005 catalog? 

   thanks for the info FG

   Wendy

1. 
   forestgirl | Oct 07, 2004 07:20am | #11

   Are you referring to the orange "Feather-Loc" featherboard?  It's a fairly reasonable price and looks like it's well-made.  Personally, I don't like the ones that fasten into the miter slot, because it seems that at least half the time, that's too close for what I'm doing.  That's why I like the Grip-Tite -- it sticks down anywhere you want it to.  Also, by using the GT system including the rollers I can rip multiple narrow pieces against the fence and not have to change the fence distance for each cut.

   Click here for good pictures and, if you're willing to wait for download, a video demonstration.  This is the Mesa Vista Designs web site.  You could email or call them and find out how to get one in Canada.

   re: my Freud blades.  I have two that are Teflon coated and one (my combo blade) that is not.  I can't speak to any particular preference at this point.  The red from the Teflon will rub off occasionally onto the wood, the only thing that kinda bugs me.  Might be more of a problem with a soft wood such as pine, I dunno.

   The LU85 is the 80-tooth "Ultimate Cutt-Off Blade", not a combo blade.  Say again what you would be using the blade for, primarily.  Including what the maximum thickness is of the wood you usually work.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   wendy1 | Oct 07, 2004 04:47pm | #12

   Hi FG,

   I am primarily using the blade for ripping. I haven't done much cross cutting on the TS. I usually just use the compound miter saw for Cross cutting. 

   My mistake... It's the LU84m011 10"X 50" combo blade by Frued I'm interested in purchasing. The LU85 is the ultimate cut off blade. I'd love to have both.

   Think I'll  forgo buying the teflon blade since I primarily work with pine and spruce. You mentioned that the coating eventually wears off and can discolour the wood. I"ve only   ripped 3/4 "Pine and 1 1/2 (spruce 2X4).

   Thanks for the website. Wow! Looks like a great system. Too bad it's so expensive.  I'll have to start saving my pennies. LOL  Might be able to afford one grip tite magnetic featherboard. Probably save money in the long run if you purchased the entire system. Do you also have the steel fence? Guess that's part of the complete pkg.

   Wendy

   Edited 10/7/2004 9:55 am ET by wendy1

3. 
   forestgirl | Oct 07, 2004 07:50pm | #14

   LU84, Bingo.  That's the combo blade that I use, and it does a fine job.

   Looking back at your earlier posts, though, I'm going to go out on a limb and make some other suggestions.  Might help your budget a bit.

   If I were in your situation, I'd get the following package:

   LU84 combination blade for ripping up to about 1" stock and other general use on the table saw

   Diablo "Fine Finish" blade (D1060X) for cross-cutting on the miter saw (or table saw)

   Diablo 24-tooth ripping blade for ripping up those 2x4's (D1024X)

   I suggest the Fine Finish blade over the Ultimate blade, because the Ultimate is very expensive and really for specialized cross-cutting purposes.  I only use mine when I'm cutting hardwood and I want the ends to be polished when they come off the saw.  The money you save on the cross-cut blade can cover the ripping blade.

   The Diablo ripping blade will do a much better job ripping the 2x4's.  It's an inexpensive blade (about 24$US at Home Depot), and just zips through its job, much easier on the saw, and much safer.

   If you don't get a dedicated ripping blade, I'd suggest a 40-tooth combo blade rather than 50-tooth.  A 50-tooth blade will have a harder time going through 2x4's ripping.  The 1-1/2" thickness of a 2x4 is max recommended for the 50-tooth blade, and if you're working with a table saw motor that's less than 2HP, you'll really be taxing the saw and getting poorer quality in your cuts.  You won't believe how nice it is to rip with a true ripping blade when you do it the first time!

   Well, now that I've spent all your money, I'd better move on.  LMK if you have other questions.  I have the new catalogs for Freud (thanks, Charles) so am able to get current model numbers and stuff.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

   Edited 10/7/2004 12:54 pm ET by forestgirl

4. 
   wendy1 | Oct 07, 2004 09:59pm | #15

   HI FG,

   You're such a wealth of information. LOL

   It's me again. I've always got questions.   I had a good look at the Grip-tite magnetic featherboard video.  The Grip-Tite pro system costs $149.00 (US) I'll have to convert that into Canadian $'s.   The pro system comes with the rollersguides, steel fence and 2 featherboards. Claims that it can  cut multiple thin pieces between the fence and blade.. usually an absolute no no . Can't believe you can actually take your fingers off the piece of board while pushing it through the saw blade. Wow! Do you have the pro system? There is no chance of kickback with this system right? I know you've used the Grip-Tite system so you know first hand how it performs. I've read some of the online reviews. Is it worth the investment for a weekend woodworker?

   Nice package FG! Since I can only afford  1 blade at the present time..  My # 1 choice would be the Diablo 24 tooth ripping blade. I don't want to stress out the motor on my 2hp KingIndustril saw.

   Right now I better go in search of some Simple Green(not sure our stores carry that unless WalMart does) or Fantastic all-purpose cleaner. Might as well pick up some  dry lubricant while I'm at it. My Saw blades could sure use a good scrubbing. The router book I read suggested Oven Cleaner but I know from reading posts here on the forum and in woodworking mags that oven cleaner can damage blades over time.

   Wendy

   PS.. thank you for educating me on choosing the right blade for the job.

5. 
   forestgirl | Oct 08, 2004 08:50am | #16

   Hi Wendy, thanks for the compliments.  I know how hard it is to work within a tight budget, so that was why I jumped in there with excess recommendations.

   By now, you've probably gotten back from WalMart with Simple Green in hand.  Glad you're going that way instead of the lye-based solution.  I find that since I started using the SG, I clean my blades much more often because it's easier.  No gloves, no worries about the cats getting involved and hurt.  It's pretty much like washing dishes, no big deal, LOL!

   Do they have one of those WWing shows near you somewhere?  You can always get a better price at the shows than on-line.  I already had one GT when I bought the upgrade kit:  The rollers and fence plate, plus another GT so I could have a pair.  I have to admit, I've not set up the fence plate and rollers.  What convinced me that the system was worth the money was watching a couple of demonstration sessions at the WWing show with one of the guys from the company.  I watched for a long, long time to make sure he wasn't performing some kind of magic trick, LOL.  It's the real thing.  Dennis will back me up on this.  He went to the same show, bought the system and set it up right away.  Far as I know, it performed as advertised and demonstrated.

   Keep in mind though, there is no guarantee with any featherboard or hold-down that guarantees no kickback.  You always want to keep your body out of the line of fire.  But yes, I've seen him rip many very thin strips off a board just as you describe, do the whole "letting go" thing.  No doubt it worked.

   When you get the system, it will include an instructional videotape.  Be sure and watch it, paying close attention to how the GTs are set up for different operations.  The tape is very amateurish production-wise, but it has important information in it!  Also, keep the magnet bars clean -- be sure when you set them onto the saw table, there isn't a bunch of sawdust under them.

   They aren't limited to the saw either.  I use mine on my drill press, band saw, router table (steel) and jointer.  Mostly as a stop or fence, but as a hold-down on the jointer sometimes.

   Let us know how you like the ripping blade!  forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

7. 
   RonInOttawa | Oct 07, 2004 06:58am | #10

   I've had great success with a 24-tooth Systematic ripping blade. It isn't a thin kerf blade, but it still does a wonderful job on 2" maple and oak despite the fact that I use it on an 30 year old Craftsman saw which only boasts 1 1/2 HP. I do keep it clean and sharp, which I'm sure helps the final results.

   Ron

1. 
   wendy1 | Oct 09, 2004 03:54am | #17

   Hi RoninOttawa,

   I always thought the more teeth the better. But for ripping it appears the 24 tooth blade is the best choice.  I'm going to have to check out the prices at my local tool shop. I'm going to see if they carry the Diablo Freud 24 tooth ripping blade.

   Thank god for the Finewoodworking Forum!  I've learned so much from just reading posts on this forum.

   Wendy

8. 
   wendy1 | Oct 07, 2004 04:58pm | #13

   Hi Metod,

   Thanks for the tip. Yeah, those sliding saws would be great to have. Guess they're taking the place of radial arm saws which I think are fantasitic.

   Wendy