Hi,
Just wondering if anyone here is familiar with the Makita 12″ compound miter saw model # LS1221 (single bevel design)
Is it better to pay a little bit more and purchase the 12″ Dewalt compound miter saw? (model # DW 716) with it’s ability to cut 2X 10″ dimensional lumber at 90degrees and 2X 8 at 45 degrees (with back fence) The double bevel design allows saw to bevel left and right allowing you to flip saw not the material. I paid only $460.00 for the Makita. Haven’t taken it out of the box yet. It was origionally selling for $749.99 Canadian.
They only had 3 left in the store. I’m definitely not looking to buy a sliding compound miter saw. I”m looking for a compound miter saw with the ability to cut wide baseboards standing vertically. So the saw has to have a tall fence. Both the Makita and Dewalt have that feature. Vertical capacity is 6.5″ on the Dewalt…(baseboard) Maximum depth of cut upright is 4.5 on the Makita.
I can purchase the Dewalt miter saw for $575. ($125 dollars more) Is having a double bevel miter saw vs a single bevel worth the extra $125.00?????
What exactly is the difference between a sliding fence(Dewalt) and a pivoting fence (Makita)?
So what’s the better deal? Dewalt is awefully tempting due to the fact that it will cut a board as wide as 10″(with back fence) what exactly does that mean..
Wanda(aka Wendy)
Edited 4/13/2006 7:47 pm ET by Wanda200
Replies
First, sneak over to Breaktime and search it. That tends to be one of those perpetual threads. As soon as one dies, another starts.
If you're short on time, a snyopsis of the last 4 years on that subject. The top 3 volume wise in popularity are the Bosch, Makita, and Dewalt. Hitachi's little 8" job gets frequent honorable mentions.
Bosch has all the controls up front, very user friendly, strong brand loyalty, tallest fences of the bunch, early issues with flex were resolved years ago. It loves two things. Sending tiny little offcuts across the room with enough velocity to embed them in drywall, and a good properly tensioned thin kerf blade. Like a (I have to space this out to get past the censors) m a t s u s h i t a .
Dewalt costs the least. Lots of die hard DW users. Most Bosch / Dewalt arguments are about as fruitful as Ford / Chevy or Rep / Dem. My own personal view, I'll never buy anything yellow again. Nevertheless, out of the box its accurate and adjusts probably the easiest of the 3. I just dont put much stock in longevity.
Makita makes good saws most of the time. Probably 90% of the people who own them love them. It has the shortest fence. The pivot feature I think is a losing technical thing that happened as a result of trying to be different for the sake of being different. The miter scale is a little non intuitive for some, turning with the table, but not everyone. I think they win the motor strength contest. Mak motors, for whatever reason, seem to like eating large objects. With little effort.
If you didnt have strong budgetary constraints, I'd go with one of the blue versions. If money is the bottom line, go yellow, and then save up and get a better one next year when it dies (that wasn't too opinionated, was it?)
"Sometimes when I consider what tremendous consequences come from little things, I am tempted to think -- there are no little things" - Bruce Barton
Good morning RW
I forgot to ask you in my last post about twin rail sliding miter saws. They say they insure you a very accurate cut.
One other ? Have you had any problems with Spindal locks on your miter saw? I have a delta 10" compound miter saw and I've had problems with the spindal lock. The bevel gauge is crap! I would never cut bevel miters using that saw. Too dangerous. I mostly use it to cut 2X6's and 4X4 posts. Not exactly easy to change blades on that saw either. I doubt I'll ever buy another delta miter saw.
wanda
I was frankly unaware that anyone made a slider without twin rails.
I have not had problems, nor heard anyone else having problems with spindle locks. Unless you want to talk pickups. Then I've spent a grand on spindle bearings. But anyway. Now the blade brake - those wear on all of them. You can replace parts down the road, or just live dangerously. The Mak, incidentally, freewheels the best when the brake burns out. I think its because its a direct drive to the motor instead of a belt like the Bosch.
I have a Delta as well. Kind of a love hate. Oldest saw in the bunch. Built like a tank for sturdy though. Blade guard is sketchy. But its the lightest and smallest I have and most mobile therefore. I dont use it much but its handy for whacking things to rough size every now and again.
"Sometimes when I consider what tremendous consequences come from little things, I am tempted to think -- there are no little things" - Bruce Barton
Hi,
What I'm looking for in a miter saw is accuracy. I need it to be able to cut a piece of board to it's final dimension. The Makita 1221 comes with a 60tooth blade. But I guess for the best quality cut I should upgrade to an 80t blade for a really fine cut.
The delta I have is ok for rough carpentry but not for trim carpentry. I have to make sure I cut the legs for my table square. I know the Delta isn't going to do that. I've tried adjusting the blade but it's still not cutting at exactly 90 degrees.
So it all comes down to spindal vs slider with duel rods/ Sliding fence vs pivot fence.
wanda
"What I'm looking for in a miter saw is accuracy. So it all comes down to spindal vs slider ..." Using a slider introduces another movement factor that could definitely (I would think) affect accuracy. Sliders were invented to provide in-the-field contractors with alot of capacity in a small, portable saw. If you want to cut miters with the best accuracy possible, on a miter saw, get a regular miter saw, not a slider.
That being said, most of the pros (in other threads) have said, hands down, use a sled on a table saw for best, most reliable accuracy and cleanest cuts.
I have a 2-year-old Bosch 12" saw, 3912, and it is great. I don't use it hard, so can't comment on longevity, but it is very, very accurate. It didn't break the bank either. Got it when one of the Amazon coupons was out, got free shipping. The stock supports were quite reasonably priced (can't find them on Amazon right now though).
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 4/14/2006 12:36 pm by forestgirl
Hi forest Girl,
I"m reading an article now in Finewoodworking tools and shops (annual issue) on choosing and using miter saws. I agree with you. A compound miter saw is the way to go. I realize that the sliding saws can easily go out of whack. like you said it has more moving parts. Not like I'll be cutting really wide boards. I can use the ts for that.
The Makita 1221 that I bought the other day has a pivoting fence but it can only miter 45 degrees to the left and 3 degrees to the right. How much of a disadvantage is that. If it doesn't make that much of a difference I'll keep the 12" compound miter saw I just purchased.
Wanda
I've never really cared about being able to bevel in both directions (that's different than miter). I'm assuming you're referring to bevel? When I went shopping for the new miter saw, I posted here to get opinions about the need for a dual-bevel saw, and came away with the impression that I didn't really need one. Sorry I can't provide details. I suppose if the extra $$ wasn't a factor, I might have gotten one just to have the feature, but the extra $$ is always a factor when the featured is of questionable usefulness.
If you really are meaning miter and it only miters in one direction, nope I wouldn't settle for that.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
can't go wrong with the 10" Makita SCMS...guaranteed....Jimmy
Hi Jimmy,
I haven't exactly ruled out the scms yet. I am not sure whether a (single bevel) 12" compound miter saw is going to cut it. If you have to flip material to cut bevels that's kind of inconvenient especially when cutting a lot of baseboard and cove moulding. I'd rather a duel bevel where I just have to flip the saw. You have to adjust the "kerf boards" on the 1221 everytime you change the bevel angle. HMMM
I might end up returning the 12" single bevel compound miter saw I purchased last week.
Heck, if price wasn't a factor I'd buy the Makita 12" duel bevel sliding compound miter saw. LOL Although the 10" also gets rave reviews.
Just don't want to make a decision I'll regret later on.
Wanda
Wanda, I must have lost track of your tool inventory <g>. Are you working without a table saw???forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi Forest Girl,
Why would you think I"m working without a table saw. That was the first big tool purchase I made.
The Only big woodworking tool I own right now is a 10" king Industrial 2hp table saw. But I have a 6" jointer on the way. It's supposed to be delivered this week. Other than that I own a few small power tools... Porter Cable 690 router, Freud 6amp jigsaw and a Delta 10" compound miter saw.. which I am going to sell. It's not very good for cutting bevels and the bevel gauge is useless. Can't even cut a straight line. (I tried to align the blade as best I could but it's still a wee bit off. I bought a new Makita model # 1221 10" single bevel compound miter saw last week. The price was right. I couldn't turn down a deal like that. I got it for $399 and it was origionally $749. Other than that I own a coping saw,small handsaw, hammer and 1 3/4 inch bench chisel and 3 screw drivers...
Haven't gotten around to making a sliding sled for the table saw yet.
Wanda (aka wendy)
Hey Wanda,
We had a job installing really large crown about 18 mos. ago and convinced the boss to buy us a new miter saw. Ended up with a 12" Rigid sliding compound miter saw. It was around $750 with the fold - up stand. It has seen heavy use and has been a reliable and surprisingly accurate addition. Most of the time it stays set up in the shop, but does go on installs as needed. It is used everyday.
We have a 12" Bosch compound miter saw (not a slider). And several DeWalt miter saws (all different types). The Rigid is as good if not better than those saws -so far.
Happy hunting,
-Paul
I use the makita 10" dual bevel sliding compound miter saw and absolutely LOVE IT!!!! Unlike other's even the makita 12" does not have the large base that the Makita 10" has. The cuts are very accurate and soft start doesn't give you the bounce that the DeWalt is famous for. I found the side gauge annoying at first but like everything else you get used to it. Also, the 10" makita that I have has a light that you can adjust to shine light on your work if you're in a place with poor lighting. For on-site use I think this saw is unbeatable. Like everything else it does have some limitations. Does anyone own one of these gems and what do you think of it?
Richard
I also have the Makita LS1013 10in compound sliding mitre saw and love it. I worked in a shop which also had one and it was thrashed it stood up very well and was accurate. Most of the accuracy comes down to the blade. I use the best I can buy with as many teeth as possible. I have used the small Elu/Dewalt and hate them with a vengence. I now supply my own saw to avoid using these.I use these saws mainly to cut mouldings and small dimension timbers up to 2inx12in anything bigger goes on the sliding table saw or radial arm saw.
I prefer to have the compounding mitre bit as it means that you don't have to do so much brain work to work out how to do the corresponding angles a plus at the end of a long hard day.Edited 4/15/2006 4:30 pm by pbck1w1
Edited 4/15/2006 4:33 pm by pbck1w1
Hi,
Yup, I meant to say bevel not miter... sorry about that. I have a Makita single bevel 12" compound miter saw.
Wanda
OK, here's my 2 cents. Open the box and use that saw. You won't be disappointed. I stressed over the same thing 5 years ago and went with the Makita. Cutting mostly oak and other hardwoods doing stair and rail work, the saw is extremely accurate. The blade should be appropriate for the work you're doing, I was using 90-96 tooth blades and they would dull surprisingly fast with the oak. Watch the flip up fence if they still use that. I wiped out the first one when I forgot to flip it out of the way when tilting the saw to the left. Good luck.
Hi Bruce,
I would love to have the Makita 10" LS 1013 sliding miter saw but it comes with a hefty price tag. The LS 1221 was origionally selling for $747.00 Canadian at my local tool shop as well as some of the other Box stores like Kent/home depot. I got mine for $399.00
what it really comes down to is the saws ability to cut tall baseboard. As long as it can cut a 4.5 inch baseboard Vertically (held upright against the fence) that's ok with me. I'm not sure the LS 1013 has that capability. Usually cutting baseboard by laying it flat isn't as accurate as cutting it vertically against the fence.
I have to double check to make sure that the LS 1221 I just purchased is capable of cutting an 8" board and a 4.5" baseboard vertically. Otherwise I might just spend the extra and buy the Dewalt.
Wanda
I'm not sure why the scms isn't as accurate cutting baseboard, or any board for that matter, flat on the base instead of against the fence?
If your saw is squared up nicely It should cut the same both ways. Is it because of the small bases that most saws have except the Makita 10" LS1013?
The reason I ask is that I've heard this before by the "elite DeWalt groupies." I'm not a brand loyal person so I can't quite understand why people are loyal to one company that makes some products inferior to others.
For example, I have a DeWalt sawzall that was given to me because of some design flaw yet I use it because I don't want to spend money on a tool I hardly use. If I did have to purchase a new one it would not be a DeWalt. Perhaps I'm going off topic and should start a new thread about brand loyalty. Richard
Hi Bruce,
So you don't think the (single bevel) is that much of a disadvantage when it comes to cutting baseboards and cove moulding? You'd go with the 12" Makita 1221 cms rather than spend 100's of dollars more for a duel bevel 10" Makita scms. However, the 1013 Makita 10" scms would be nice to own. If it wasn't so darn expensive. I just got off the phone to my local tool dealer and they're selling it for $749.99 Add taxes to that and you're looking at around $850.00 Dear Lord! I could have a Delta 14" band saw for that price.
Seems all the Makita miter saw/scms come with pivot fences rather than sliding fences like on the Bosch and Dewalt saws.
Wanda
Wanda,
Let me begin by saying that you should look elsewhere for a compound miter saw, I regularly see cheaper prices than you quote. Try Northern toolcrib or seven corners hardware.
Second, I'm not sure why you would poo-poo a sliding compound miter saw.. I own one and you can easily get super accurite cuts with it..
Exactly repeatable and I always set mine to the last 10th of a degree. I have a digital angle finder and if it says this cut should be 97.3 degrees that's what I set mine at and thats exactly what I get..
Where the slider portion comes in handy is the wide boards (up to 12 inches wide) that would normally have to go on a sled to the table saw.. Try cutting a longish board on a sled sometime and you're lucky if you can maintain the accuracy within a few degrees let alone a tenth..
I own Yellow, (Dewalt) not because of any loyalty but because of price.. Now mine has helped me build my double timberframe. In the last 4 plus years it hasn't given me a moment of grief and changing blades is super fast.. One cut I may use a cross cut blade the next a super fine blade and then switch to a metal cutting blade to make cuts thru brass copper, aluminum etc..
Even the original blade has held up well, It's only been to the sharpeners twice both times due to metal{nail one time sheetrock screw another} I hit.. (Grrrrrr!) This is a 5300 sq.ft. double timberframe.. so far I've cut about 35,000 bd.ft. with it almost all hardwood like white oak or black walnut..
Hello Frenchie,
I went to Home Depot yesterday to have a look at their compound/sliding miter saws. They don't come cheap! Average price for a sliding miter saw.... $699- $799 depending on brand. DW 718 12" double bevel slide compound miter saw... $775.00 Canadian.
Most of the boards I cut are usually 1X 8 dimensional lumber.
Can you cut dadoes using a sliding saw? Is that safe? And how good is it for cutting through 4X4's?
Wanda
"Can you cut dadoes using a sliding saw? Is that safe? And how good is it for cutting through 4X4's?"
Dadoes - yes, in theory, and no less safe than other work on that saw. Can't use a dado blade though - I'd cut the two side cuts and chisel the middle. I have a DW 708 12" SCMS; there is a depth stop but I'm not very impressed by it. Was much more comfortable doing that kind of work on my old (and dearly missed) pre-buyout Dewalt Radial Arm Saw.
4x4's (& 4x12's) - like through butter
Wanda,
I wouldn't buy at Home depot, the good prices are from places like Amazons' Nothern tool crib or 7 corners hardware (both are on the internet)
A 4x4 is actually 3 1/2 x3 1/2 and my saw will cut thru them like a breeze.. It will even neatly cut right thru an actual 4x4 like I buy from the sawmill. I use white oak and black walnut predominately so pine or fir would be a piece of cake..
As for dados, No That is something I wouldn't try. Usually accuracy isn't hyper critical with dados so you could cut them on a sled on your table saw. (that's where I see most cut, although a cabinet maker friend of mine does all of his with a skil saw and a straight edge..
On the other hand most of the ones I've cut lately have been done with a Mikita groove cutter.. Sure is a lot faster than changing blades and doing all the set-up on a table saw.. My straight edge is a piece of 2x2 aluminum angle that is 10 feet long
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