To all, I am considering my next big purchase, a 12 inch miter saw. I am not a contractor but I have some big projests coming up. A shed, lots of interior remodeling, and I build some furniture as well as the usual odds and ends. My delima is whether or not to get a sliding Miter saw or just a chop saw. I know you get more reach and that will allow you to work with 12 inch stuff but how many of you out there need the reach on any kind of regular basis. I know that the slider takes up more shop space and cost more, but if the general rule of thumb is that it is very handy then money and space is not the issue. It’s just pennies in the long run. However if it is a feature that most of you don’t use that much, I am in desperate need for a big BS and the extra cash could go there.
Thanks, Dave
Replies
I am a carpenter by trade and peruse this side of the fence from time to time. I have a 12" chop and it has been the sweetest saw for the many years I have owned it. However I am in the market for a slider for the very reasons that you list. I have used the 12" sliders and will tell you that once you have really used them on a regular basis you will wonder why you ever questioned it. By all means get a slider, you will not regret it. Make sure it is a double compound, ( I think that's all they are anymore), and the top models to try are Makita, Bosch (my fav.), and the old reliable Dewalt. I have extensively used all three and will tell you they all are very good tools. There have been several threads over at Breaktime on this subject, you may want to cruise over there and look them up. Watch out though, they tend to be very possesive of their own favorite brands of tools there. Good luck.
Dave,
Sliders have 4 inches more than most 12" chopers, yet they cost $200- $300 more. They are less accurate due to the flexing of the rails. If you will need the 12" capacity go for it. I rent one when I need it.
Mike
Dave,
My compound slider is several years old and I don't have any flex that isn't compensated for with the easy to use adjusting knob on the slider. I can still do furniture quality work with it and the cuts as dead accurite.
Maybe other brands have more of a flex peroblem than De Walts?
I have the 12" dewalt slider. Just bought it 2 months ago and love it. Thought I would keep my old chop (sears) saw for rough cuts. Traded it for parts for my beaver ts within 3 weeks. Cluttered up the shop and would never use it again after using the dewalt. Go for it. you will not regret it.
tom b
I am just here to second comments in the previous two posts to your question.
I believe the extra cross cut capacity with the sliding model is indispensible. That is true for both framing and cabinet making chores.
And, as noted, the price of this extra capacity (along with more $$) is more futzing to maintain cut accuracy.
I also share the assessment that the three brands noted -- Makita, Bosch, and Dewalt -- are the best of what's available.
So, unless you already have a radial arm saw, or a sliding table attachment for your TS, I would opt for the slider.
However, I would really like to have others speak to the relative accuracy of the 10" models vs. the 12". Supposedly, the larger blade deflects more, and is therefore not as precise in cutting as its 10" cousin. Is there some truth to that claim, or is it all just a bunch of hooey? Even if true, I can't see how it would matter in framing, but it is an issue in cabinetry cuts.
ive used ten and 12 inch miter saws both sliding and none sliding
best cutting has always been with the 12 inch tool, and i work with prefinished cabinet trim in cherry and maple, some up to 6 inches wide
the 12 inch blades are of course heavier and dont seem to flex at all
just got a brand new dewalt 12 inch slider(compounds both ways) and is it ever sweetcaulking is not a piece of trim
i second the slop and less accuracy in the slider.
i like my makita 10'' slider but it does deflect a bit.
if it is your only way to cross cut go for the slider.
if you want dead accurate, no on slider.
Re: More on slider accuracy
I use a Makita 1013, and precision cuts really are a problem -- with drawer parts, for example.
I took the fence into the Makita service center a while back, and sure enough it was off enough that I had to buy a new one. This saw has never been dropped or stressed, and I am at a loss to explain how the fence ever got bent. But it did.
But even with the new fence, if you draw a square line across the piece, I notice that about half the time, the saw is off just a little. Ordinarily, this is not a problem, but with drawers, it can be just enough to require compensation when hanging them on a drawer glide -- which is a pain.
I have an early Delta chop saw (the big old cast iron model), and this thing is always right on the money. But the cross cut capacity is only 5 1/2".
Have you zeroed the fence? I too have a 1013 and out of the box the fence needed a tweak to get it right on 90 deg. Since then I've had no problems. I always check before critical cuts with a piece of scrap and it's always been 90 deg to table and 90 deg to fence. My other technique with critical pieces is to cut about 1/16 long and make a second cut to the exact length.
Dave,
To quantify my statement about accuracy, the only times I notice it are when cutting really large crown at the compound angles. I can never get the miters to close perfectly. This has never been an issue on my Dewalt 12" dual bevel.
Mike
I have a 10" one side bevel slider and I would be lost without it. The blade makes all the difference in either a chop or slider. Absolute accuracy isn't much of an issue for most work and I doubt you'd see anything measurable between ordinary chops and sliders. The real test is when cuts are cumulative such as in segmenting an octagon. A small inaccuracy will be multiplied 16 times making it a problem, particularly with high production. I think the slide action is easier on blades. Sliders can chop but chops can't slide. My older Bosch has stood up well over the years. I like the detant lockout when I need a whisker off any of the presets. Adjustments are straight forward. If you want to cut a 2x6 you need a slider. Even though I often use the whole capacity, stair skirts, shelves, wide base, I also like sliding for small stock. You can also do scoring cuts and stop cuts with a slider. Chops lose a lot of capacity when compound cutting. For heavy framing I'd go with a 12" but for most work 10" is plenty. Blades are less expensive and more types available.
My two cents!
If you have a stationary radial arm saw but the 12"miter saw. The compound saw on a long niter table takes up an extra foot behind the saw in the shop. Look at Norm's miter table in the New Yankee Workshop. Just add a foot behind the table to accomodate that. I had a compound slider and had to buy a miter saw when I added that type of table to my shop.
I have the Makita LS1212. The dual linear slides have no slop, which I understand is a big improvement over this model's single beam predecessor. I zeroed the fence, lapped the arbor flanges to reduce runout, and replaced the supplied thin kerf blade with an FSTools HD mitresaw blade. This thing is dead on accurate and plenty powerfull, even when cutting 8/4 QSWO. John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
To all, Just wanted to say thanks for all the super advice and am letting you know that I am looking at the 10 and 12 inch sliders. I am not sure I like the upright handles like the hitachi and the makita have on them but maybe I will get used to it. I really like the Bosch 12 inch. Much appreciated. Dave
Good point on the handles. I imagine, origonally, someone took a circular saw (which has a verticle handle ergonomically designed to PUSH FORWARD) and put a pivot on it to make a chop saw.
DeWalt popped their gourd out of the darkness and realized, ergonomically, this causes fatigue. I bought the dewalt 12" mostly for that very reason.
Can't say enough about intelligent engineering.
For those cabinet makers out there who want to be able to cross cut 24" of melamine-
Take a look at the Festool plunging circular saw. Add the table and you have one of the dandiest cut off saws I've ever seen. Cuts smoooooth and accurate.
http://www.festool-usa.com/portando/index.cfmYou get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
RE: FESTOOL PLUNGE CUTTING SAW
I have heard of this saw before, but with the link you provided, I studied it a bit more carefully.
I assume you have one of the two models, and I am curious about the following:
1) Do you use the multifunction table they sell?
2) Do you use the Festool in place of or in addition to a mitre saw (either chop or sliding)?
3) Since the blade sizes are unique to Festool, I assume you must use their version, right?
4) Even in the demo material, they show more splintering (with cross cuts, to the right of the kerf) than I ever get with a sliding mitre, equipped with a decent blade. Has that been your experience?
5) The aluminum ripping guide is slick, but is it superior to the old fashioned plywood guide (saw base sliding on top of the guide) used by so many of us (and which functions in exactly the same way)?
6) The two models they carry seem woefully expensive (priced on the site at $385 or $485), and I wonder if they outperform much less expensive, conventional top-of -the line circular saws?
I've been very pleased with my Hitachi 8.5" sliding compound saw. Less than $400 and very accurate.
I have a 8 1/4" Hitachi slider, 2) 10" chopsaws, and a 15" Hitachi chop saw. I prefer the 15' chop saw for most large work and only occasionally do I use the cmpound slide and this is only when I can't get a full cut on the 15" chop saw. I prefer the 15" saw for cutting crown
Dave, sliding compound miter saws have made some great strides forward in just the past year. The Makita was rated the top but I've had complaints of sawdust clogging up the table and making it difficult to move and cause the detents to be less than accurate. The Bosch doesn't seem to have that problem nor the Dewalt. The Makita, when clean, is dead on accurate. All of the saws can be tuned to perfection its just how often that needs to be done that matters most.
The extra cutting capacity of the slider is nice to have and I am starting to see a trend with manufacturers to stop producing non-sliding 10" saws. Bosch dropped their 10" and I think the rest will soon follow.
When considering a 12" saw, and if absolute accuracy is a must then be sure to look for one that uses a solid 1" arbor. Many of the 12" saws use a bushing to change from a 5/8" to 1" arbor and those can cause blade flutter. Most of the belt driven 12" saws have a solid 1" arbor.
The other thing that was mentioned in a previous post was to use a full 1/8" blade on the 12's. Sure you can save a 1/32 of an inch with a thin kerk and it will cut faster but you also increase the odds of flutter which will inevitable effect the quality of the cut.
Hope this helps in your decision.
Sincerely;
The Tool Guy
I looked at a slider a few years back but they didn't look or feel as sturdy as a regular chop saw, so I went with the porter-cable 12" chop saw. I have used for the doing the trim work around the house and it has worked flawlessly. I need to get a new blade, but otherwise in the 4 years I have had it, it has worked perfectly.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled