Replies

1. 
   RickL | Jan 30, 2006 11:47pm | #1

   Typically more than seperate machines. The jointer beds on combo's are typically a bit thorter than a dedicated 12" jointer. Entry level would be Rikon, then Rojek and it jumps quite a bit after that. Search Knapp. Robland, Minimax, Felder, etc. They advertise in the mags. Also get the European woodmags for others that are out there.

   You really don't need a planer any bigger than your jointer. The key is proper stock preparation and when you glue up correctly you should be to thickness and only need to scrape the glue off and sand and scrape your panel. The idea you need to have over thick panels and plane them down after is because they don't know how to prep the stock and do a proper glue up.

1. 
   tcbaldmtn | Jan 31, 2006 03:27am | #2

   How hard is it to change over from one function to another.  I figure this combo set up would save a lot of room in my garage.  Anyone know a ball park dollar figure?

1. 
   pbcarch | Jan 31, 2006 04:38pm | #5

   The change over from j to p is not a real issue for me. It also depends though on which manufacturer and model you are looking at. I have a MiniMax FS41 16" j/p and the table lifts up in one piece, some other models have the table lift in two separate pieces. I would seriously consider something larger that 12" because while the jointing capacity is great I feel the planning is a bit small. The other thing a real wide jointer allows is to skew the board across the cutter head for really tough grain. Most of these machines also offer, mine does, a horizontal mortising attachment. They are great add ons and allow you to produce loose mortise and tennon joinery. So I sold off a total of three machines (8" jointer, 14" planer and chisel mortiser) to help defer the costs of my machine. I would never go back as the result s are much better, no snip at all, the machine is of a much higher quality and I have saved a tremendous amount of space. One more thing make sure you get one with a Tersa cutter head, they simply are the best compared to anything out there include those spiral heads...no aligning at all in any mode.

1. 
   tcbaldmtn | Jan 31, 2006 05:19pm | #6

   Thanks for all the info, sounds like I need to start saving.  I took a woodworking class a Rosewood Studio in Canada last year and it was amazing using larger equipment.  6" jointer vs. 12" and using a larger industrial planer.  I retire in 4yrs and hope to have some of my equipment before than.

1. 
   Napie | Jan 31, 2006 06:57pm | #7

   I'll add my 2 cents, I've had an older 12" Robland for a long time, the combo J/P with horizontal morticer is one of the BEST deals in woodworking machinery.  I just wish it was a 16" or larger.  I'm just waiting on the far east manufactures to jump on that bandwagon.

2. 
   fingerlessHack | Jan 31, 2006 04:24am | #3

   Some people do not like the fact that when adjusting your blades, on a combo planer jointer, you have to take into consideration that the adjustment is dependent upon two variables the jointer tables (infeed and outfeed) and the planer table. Thus many magnetic jigs used to align the blades, for jointers, can become almost useless. Because, you might find your adjustment is good for jointing but could be bad for planing, if your jointer tables have not been adjusted to be co-planer with your planer table and assuming the planer-table is also co-planer with the roller-blade-housing (don't know official term).

   The counter arguement to this is just make sure you adjust your blades relative to the roller-blade-housing, which holds or locks in the blades. Than make sure your jointer tables are adjusted relative to the roller. But if your planer table ever gets out of alignment relative to your roller-blade-housing, and the planer table is fixed/not-alignment-adjustable, adjustments become alot more difficult.

   Therefore, if you have a dedicated jointer, blade adjustment can be done relative to your jointer tables, assuming they are co-planer to each other, despite the fact tables are not co-planer with the roller-blade-housing... you have a little more flexibility with dedicateds.

   My experience with change over was generally it was not an issue. Unless, for example, maybe you have done a rip. Therefore the fence was adjusted to a certain setting. Well before you can move on to shaping, planing, or jointing, you must complete all your rips for specific dialed in setting. With dedicated you can leave your rip adjustment intact and move off to another machine which is not depedent upon the rip fence or what ever other function.

    

   
   

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   Edited 1/30/2006 8:36 pm ET by x31dude

3. 
   CTWoodWkr | Jan 31, 2006 10:49am | #4

   I recently bought one of the new Hammer AC-41 16" combo planer/jointer machines. It is a very high quality machine. Although, it was $5900 total, as a professional woodworker, I felt it was a great investment. It solved several problems for me such as large capacity, small footprint (it is about the same size as an 8" jointer), one cutterhead for both planing and jointing with easy replaceable two sided blades that are indexed to the cutterhead so there are no blade height adjustments necessary, and the mobility kit makes it easy to move when needed. Switching from jointer to planer is easy and fast, just tilt up the infeed and outfeed tables flip over the dust shroud and reconnect the dust hose, adjust the planer table height for your wood and go to it. If this machine and price is too much for you, the Hammer AC-31 has 12" capacity for less, about $3500 if I remember correctly. It is more money than the usual Delta/Powermatic stuff commonly available but you get so much more bang for the buck - great value and features. Look at http://www.hammerusa.com. You can't beat the quality of the Felder/Hammer machines.

   
   

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   Edited 1/31/2006 3:04 am ET by CTWoodWkr

4. 
   Troy | Jan 31, 2006 07:26pm | #8

   Received a nifty catolog and DVD from Hammer (Felders "low-cost" line) and they had both a 12 and 16 inch combo jointer planer. They where in the 4500-5500 range. They advertise in Fine WW you can call them for a catolog. Good luck.

   Troy

5. 
   Steve50 | Feb 02, 2006 02:42am | #9

   I agree with most everything  the others have posted on this subject.  I would also like to point out some additional points that you may want to consider.  I have a European combo machine (Saw/shaper/jointer/planer) which is an excellent, but costly, choice.  I have the unit with a 16" J/P.

   1. Having a J/P in a single machine is a real space saver.
   2. Jointer beds are typically shorter than just for a stand alone jointer. 
   3. The European cutter guard is much different than the American style and does take some getting used to.  When doing edge jointing with the fence close to the user, the guard sticks out at about belly height.  They make a jointed version of the guard but it costs more.  The alternative is to reach across the table and joint with the fence far away from the user.  This can be awkward for a 16" jointer but will not be as much of an issue with the 12".  Just consider the ergonomics for what is comfortable in your work.
   4. The European cover guard completely covers the blades at all times when face jointing.  I like this feature from a safety perspective but, I don't like it with respect to using push blocks since you have to lift the block off your workpiece to get over the guard.  There just isn't any way to have it both ways here.
   5. The fences are typically aluminum extrusions and most folks seem to prefer cast iron.  This hasn't been an issue for me and is most likely a matter of personal preference.
   6. For my machine, switching from jointer to planer operation is a matter of turning two kip levers and lifting the jointer tables as a single unit.  This operation is very fast, convenient, and effortless since the tables are counterbalanced very well.  I have the power drive so moving the planer table up is very fast.  If you don't get a unit with a power drive option, this could give you a workout turning the handwheel.
   7. Planer and jointer work extremely well with absolutely zero snipe.
   8. You will typically have a number of cutterhead options:  standard quick change, TERSA, Shelix, spiral, and perhaps others.  Your preference may dictate the brand you choose.  Just do your homework on this.  I can't offer much help on the benefits of all the choices - I have the standard quick change cutterhead
   9. I haven't seen a J/P combo with bed rollers.  My previous planer had the bed rollers which I really liked but at times miss with my current machine.

   Hope this helps,

   Steve

1. 
   RodWolfy | Feb 02, 2006 11:37pm | #10

   The change over only takes about 1-2 minutes on my machine. The biggest hassle is going back and forth if you forget a piece.  Although, my machine is accurate to 1/10 of a mm when I write down the previous settings.

   One of the other posts mentioned having a problem setting up the knives. I haven't found that to be an issue, as I have double sided indexed knives (like on a portable planer). The knife height isn't a factor as the new knives are indexed to be the same height as the old set.

   Look around on the net for a used machine. I found one out of state and I saved enough over the cost of a new one that it paid for a weeks vacation/travel and it was still only 1/2 the price of a new one.

   See my other post under: message #7632.4

   Rod