I need help from an expert. I want to match my 1912 craftsman bungalow trim finish. The wood is douglas fir, flat grain. The summer wood was lightly stained greenish black. The winter wood is unstained and reddish with excellent clarity and chatoyance. The top coats are shellac, the last coat was darker red. The finish trim on all windows, paneling and wainscot and doors is the same. People think it’s redwood.
I can’t figure out how the summer wood was stained dark without affecting the winter wood. I’ve tried iron acetate, water and oil stains. Pre wetting the wood and dry. I’ve also tried potassium permanganate and potassium dichromate. All these methods stain the winter grain as well as the summer grain.
Does anyone have a guess how this finish was done in 1912?
sample pictures of 1912 finish: top end of board has shellac removed ( by rubbing at end, then padding gently). New shellac spot is ruby shellac.
Thanks for your time
Replies
I may be missing something, but that's the usual effect of staining fir using a pigment only stain instead of dye or a chemical stain. Very little pigment sticks to the denser winter wood. It then becomes colored with a dye toned topcoat, such as orange shellac. Most big box stains of the Minwax ilk have both dye and pigment--complicating the issue..
Re: I may be missing something,
-- Most big box stains of the Minwax ilk have both dye and pigment--complicating the issue.
The winter wood of the original is completely devoid of any staining. I could not duplicate that with tung oil and universal colorants from the paint store where they told me their colorants were pigment only. I'll try the art store oils which are surely pigment only. But on second thought, maybe I need coarse pigments that will not fit into small cells in the winter grain. 1912 pigments must have been coarser.
Any thoughts?
A light sanding after pigment was applied would be removing pigment mostly from the dense winter wood. A sanding block would be of help I'd think.
Color
Possibly thinning down the ruby shellac and try again -
the color you're after looks close - just too intense. It isn't easy to match 100 year old finishes since time does make changes in the overall look or patina we sometimes can't copy exacty. Anyway - you're close - any customer would be happy with that match.
Maybe you can darken the existing finish a bit to bring it together
SA
Fir Finish
Hi Gregg.
How's your matching effort going? I'm dealing with a bunch of fir flooring, trim, and doors that I need to treat to match some 70 yr old material and love the color you're going for.
If you don't mind me asking, what's your exact finishing schedule?
Thanks!
Gray Green Craftsman Douglas Fir finish
Dear Gregg,
Your posting is very interesting. My wife and I have a similar finish in our 1928 craftsman home in Spokane, Washington. We have some missing trim and other woodwork we need to match and have been researching this finish for several years, but have not found many details.
The exposed woodwork throughout most of our house also has a grayish-green appearing finish. This finish appears to have enjoyed some popularity in Spokane in the late teens to 1920s, and perhaps nationally.The finish looks like a stain or dye under a clear coat, but does not really penetrate the wood. Analysis has shown it to be an oil-based pigment. It is difficult to see if it was applied with a brush or cloth and wiped off, or diluted and applied in a single coat. Not sure what the proper term for the method of applying the finish is: is it the same as a limed, pickeled, or whitewashed finish, or something else? Is this the same as “French gray”? If anyone knows please email me back. We have found some examples of this same greenish gray finish or similar appearing finishes in other Spokane buildings and we are trying to document them as we learn of them. We also have seen books that show this finish in houses in other cities. My wife and I have also seen some stand alone furniture with this finish. I have contacted specialists in craftsman homes and paint consultants nationwide. Many have been helpful, but no one has yet said I know what its called and this is how it was made. I myself, have not yet begun to experiment, because I’ve been working on other areas of our house. We also sent some samples to Frank Welsh for stereomicroscopic analysis. I summarize what we learned below.
Our restoration challenge is that we have some existing woodwork to refinish, some to restain and refinish to match, and some that needs to be entirely replaced and refinished to match. I don't want the refinished and newly refinished woodwork to look good when applied and toi contrast in a few years by fading or darkening. While our living room retains a good deal of original woodwork, it also requires substantial restoration. In the 1970s someone replaced the front windows in the living room and one bedroom with picture windows that have since failed and need to be replaced. An attempt was made to match the new window moldings with the old grayish green finish, but the new color, probably out of a commercially prepared can, faded severely. Later, probably in the 1980s someone modified the living room by installing ¼ inch sheet rock, refinishing the mantle, and installing a new front door. When the sheetrock was put in, nearly all the rabbit ears were cut off and the picture rail was removed. These are some of the pieces that need to be completely replaced and refinished.The following paragraphs summarize what we’ve learned.
Several methods may have existed and could been used historically to achieve the same results. I am still trying to learn what historic formula or formulas were used to achieve this affect and how to best replicate the one used in our house.Our three samples show that a first layer of bluish gray paint was applied to the wood and subsequently wiped off to create the appearance of a stain. A thinned downed shellac or other fixative may have been applied first bout it could not be detected by the stereomicroscopic analysis. It is possible that the surface was lightly sanded after the applied paint dried, but again no evidence of this was seen in thestereomicroscopic analysis. Whether or not the type of oil paint (i.e. original formulation vs. a modern alkyd oil paint) will make a difference is difficult to determine without experimentation.
A second layer was a thin clear coat, which sealed and protected the paint and the trim. This clear coat exhibits characteristics that are more similar to a lacquer than to a traditional oil/resin varnish. In addition, the second clear coat probably had a slight yellow cast when originally applied, which would have made the bluish gray stain appear greener. Over time and with the application of another clear coat that also had a slight yellow cast the whole appears much greener than it would have in 1928.
A third layer was only found on two of the samples I submitted and is a much later glossy varnish or lacquer.
Attached are some examples of this greenish gray finish in our house. Gregg, I would like to know how your project turned out. If anyone else has more information on the historic name(s) of this finish and any historic recipes, please forward them to me, or perhaps post them to this site. I would especially like to hear from anyone who has replicated historic finishes or comes from a multigenerational family of wood finshers familiar with this technique. Thank you.
Robert Sloma
Solution to 1912 Puzzle-Craftsman Wood Finish on Fir
My California bungalow was built in 1912 with flat grain doug fir paneling and trim. They did use some straight grain fir but hid it ininconsipcuous spots. Most people assume it's red wood because of the finish. Looking at it closely, it's actually more beautiful with the chantoyance and gradient effects of the original stain. It was a cheaper way to make it look like currly redwood.
The "discovery" I made trying every concievable combination of finishes on flat grain fir is that alcohol stains are the only stains that sink into the summer wood so that they yield a progressively darker/lighter color (gradient) as the summer wood thickness changes. As a great bonus, the alcohol stains do not pool into the sanding marks as much as oil or water stains.
This was my process:
1. Sand to 220 grit
2. Put fir in bright sun for weeks untill the color is closer to the 100 year old fir.
3. Very lightly sand off raised grain a little, 1 or 2 swipes of sand paper. Keep the tannin color from the sun exposure.
3. Mix green alcohol dye per your previous tests.
4. Wipe on alcohol DNA dye to match your tests.
5. Very lightly sand off some dye on winter wood, 1 or 2 swipes of sand paper. Your winter wood will be very slightly proud of the summer wood.
6. Cut shellac to 1-1/2 lb. cut. I used fresh clear.
7. Using a 4-6" square of T-shirt completly wet with shellac, flow on shellac with only one pass per width of pad. I skipped this step, then had the more difficult task of blending the colors later as the red shellac disolved the green.
-Let dry
8. Add mahogany alcohol dye to shellac for color per your previous tests.
8. Using a 4-6" square of T-shirt completly wet with colored shellac, flow on shellac with only one pass per width of pad.
9. Let dry and redo step 8 until the color is as good as you can do.
10. If you want the finish dulled, try using the 3M marron pads 320 or 240 grit.
The attached picture is real curly redwood to be the new skylight trim, hopefully it won't make the rest of the room look bad.
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