1hp Belt Driven vs 2hp Direct Drive?
My direct drive is pretty quiet and I personally haven’t had issues with direct drive saws. I understand the benefits of belt-driven saws and why they are what they area. I just personally haven’t experienced the downsides of direct drive saws. Even when sawing thicker and heavier wood or glued up pieces I personally haven’t had any issues.
Is this possibly a confirmation bias thing? I get that there’s some science about the benefits of an induction motor but unless I”m moving up to 3hp and 3 240 volts I personally don’t see that much of a benefit.
Especially because currently I have 2hp direct-drive and most of that 110 volt belt driven seem to be 1hp or 1.5 hp. I just personally don’t see that much of a benefit. My DD is even really quiet.
edit: am a hobbyist but this is slowly becoming a bit of a side hustle. that said, it’s very much a side hustle that is custom pieces and not at a production level. i do get almost daily use out of it some weeks for a half a day.
In my head it feels a bit that while the trade off for the belt driven would succeed in some places, it’d still be a loss in hp? or am i mistaken? I also feel like what i have will cover me for at least a couple/few years until i can make that big leap to a professional cabinet saw or i get enough work to pay for that on its own. i think a fneceupgrade is in the cards no mater which one.
Anyway, thanks for the responses. Much appreciated it. If anyone wanted to dive into a bit more about the downsides of universal’s or some benefits belt driven like trunions, I’m curious. That”s really what I am more than anything. All I’ve gotten so far for benefits is longer-lasting (not that big of a deal when i’m looking to upgrade in 2-3 years), not as much wear/stress on the motor, less vibration and quieter (and my saw is surprisingly quiet, my benchtop I had before this definitely had that screech peopel talk about but this seems alright)
edit2: def def def not looking for a fight. just genuinely curious. especially with the consideration i know from either saw i’d probably be taking the leap to a pro cabinet saw in the near (2-3 year) future.
Replies
Sounds to me like you're all set, enjoy your saw!
Would I be correct in assuming you are a hobbyist and not someone using his table saw for hours a day to earn a living?
It is a pretty inescapable fact that induction motors will significantly outlast universal motors especially under heavy use.
That raises another point of confusion you refer to your saw as Direct Drive but that is a separate issue from comparing Induction and Universal motors.
Universal motors tend to have shorter lifespans, draw more power for a given horsepower and thus have a higher operating cost, and tend to be louder and create higher frequency noise which is more damaging to one's hearing. When compared to induction motors. Assuming you take proper hearing protection precautions, as a hobbyist these differences may not be substantial or important to you, but they would be to a professional.
As far as the Direct Drive aspect the biggest impact could be to depth of cut and tilting action of the blade since the diameter of the motor would impact how much of a 10" blade would be usable. Since I don't know the specs of your saw and I've used a 3hp. 240v Unisaw for over 30 years I have no personal experience with a direct drive saw and any other possible limitations or even benefits.
I'll echo _MJ_'s comment, it sounds like mRomo is looking for agreement with what he has already decided. If his saw is working for him there is no need for peer pressure or doubt to drive a change.
Our knee-jerk response is to help him understand the difference in how universal and induction motors are horsepower rated. Numbers aside we might talk about trunnion design, the restrictions there0f, operating cost, longevity and who knows what?
If a person has a method that works for them and they are happy with it, there is no need to change. This doesn't make others believe that the differences that are important to them do not exist. That's OK. In the end, if what one has or does works for them, they're good. ;-)
I'm not sure he's looking for agreement. It seemed to me he was looking for a fight.
I also thought my old Crafstman was a pretty good saw, too.
Then I bought a 3HP cabinet saw, and it was IMMEDIATELY apparent there are different degrees of “getting the job done”.
Not looking for a fight, looking to better understand what's going on. Yea, I'm a hobbyist but as my collection of tools grows and the more pieces I put I find myself putting more hours in, answering more requests, and even selling a piece or two.
I'm well aware, with either saw, I'm probably going to end up actually buying a saw at some point for 1.5k+. In the meantime, I'm also personally not worried about the hours I'm putting in. While it does get borderline daily use it's at best half a day. With that, Rarely am I processing a ton of wood on a production level.
I'm trying to get the best bang for my buck since I have the option between the two currently at super affordable prices. I understand the benefits of an induction for the most part but when it's single phase power they don't seem to be that much greater. And, even as a side hustly, feed rate isn't as big of an issue either.
I also figure I'm stuck upgrading the fence on either and if this motor is going to give me a couple/few decent years until I"m in a position to get that 1-2k saw, I'll be fine. If the other table saw at 1.5hp would be that much better where I may not need to make that upgrade in 2-3 years then I may be more inclined to take it now.
mRomo
I was under the impression that you were talking about a saw you already owned.
Since you never gave details about the saws in question, such as brand, size etc. I would match the saw with the work you anticipate doing if it's mostly small piece work, boxes, cutting boards, etc then a small saw, which I associate with direct drive and induction motors, would be fine. On the other hand if you think you will be doing mostly case work a larger table and heavier saw could be beneficial, you don't want a small light weight saw shifting on you as you handle large pieces.
Other things to consider, table size and material, cast iron is best due to stability and heft and the stability it offers, but flatness is more important. A 24" straight edge and feeler gauge can shed light on just how flat a top is. Quality of miter gauge and fence is important if you must spend Hundreds making the saw serviceable then you would be better off buying a better saw in the first place.
That brings me back to a mantra my father taught me its always less expensive to buy a quality tool once than a bargain tool over and over. I won't speak to your financial situation but I would think hard about buying a tool that I knew would only last me a year or two.
I also misunderstood that you were asking about a new saw purchase. Sorry about that. The saws will probably perform similarly despite the HP rating differences. HP is a poor way to rate a motors performance but, it is what we are used to.
We all know that a 3-1/2 HP router isn't going to have near the power of a 3 HP shaper. We all know that the Shop Vac on sale isn't really 6 HP, you'd never be able to move it ;-)
I would ignore the rating and look to the saw's capabilities as they align with what you are wanting to do. If you are going to break down sheet goods and make face frames your needs are very different than someone who will be milling large table legs 3 times a week.
Table space in front of the blade can be an annoyance if it is short like a lot of job site saws. A fence that you have to re-check every time you move it is a real buzz-kill as well.
thanks for the insight and input. i'm not really at a point where i can commit to a big $1000+ saw yet. i geuss a lot of this comes down to figuring out what exactly I will be doing with it. And there's two parts to my brain. One is, I really really hated being held back by that shit bench top saw and checking the fence with a combo square every. single. cut. And I also want to be able to start working with 8/4 material and what not. Right now, I don't see this saw not doing that. Reality is these used craftsmen are super affordable, and I'm partly using this experience to feel out where I might land regarding this as a hobby, side hustle, or business.
Think I was looking for a nice neat answer or some aha! moment for something that I'm probably going to have to learn through experience.
financially i've watched at least two people buy motorcycles ride them a year or two and then let them set and sell em for a loss. So I"m trying to navigate with smart, well reputable brands, right now the 2hp direct drive is a craftsmen (needs a fence upgrade if i'm keeping it). the 1.5 hp craftsmen too but ahs the cast iron. for $100 it might be worth the wing. but also just found a 3hp belt drive around the same price ~100 and that may have resolved any issues... lol. thanks for the insight. it's greatly greatly appreciate. really, i mean that.
mRomo
I wish you luck and don't want to rain on your parade, but Craftsman tools aren't particularly high quality IMO and I owned several when I started out many years ago.
Have you scoured the used tool markets for used table saws? In my opinion a 30 year old Unisaw(I'm still using mine today) or Powermatic Model 66 is ten times the saw a 2 or 3 year old Craftsman is and would be a better investment. I've seen them. On Craigslist for less than $1,000. Just a thought
I actually moved from a 2hp craftsmen to a 35 year old unisaw with a unifence and the difference is more than the mere one horsepower advantage of the later. As I find in most stationary equipment, weight and rigidity are the main assets and with weight comes vibration dampening as a bonus. If the unisaw is outside your price range, give those factors more weight in your decision criteria than rated horsepower. A rigid frame and a sharp thin kerf blade will buy you more than an extra horsepower.
ah thanks, no and neither of you a re reigning on my parade. these are both craftsmen 113's (80's/90's) which apparently come from a line of midrange decent table saws? the 3hp belt one i'm looking at today is cast iron wings/body. That said, craftsmen isn't all that. There does appear to be a $500 dollar unisaw but it may be missing the fence. One other option I considered was just a fence upgrade, either used off a unisaw or vega/incra, even kreg. I geuss I'm not ready to start dropping big money and still feeling out whether it's a hobby that makes a lil cash or a committed side hustle. I want to thank you both so much for your time and my really poor sense of communication. I do think it partly is a grass is greener coming from a benchtop model that the current 2hp direct drive i have feels that much better. tbh I think that's a big reason I'm hesitant to lay down the money just yet because I'm not sure entirely where I'm going to be and because I haven't hit limitations yet.
if i could buy you two a beer, or a board or two to work with, lol, i would. really thankful.
I've had Vega fences for years, when I bought my sawstop PCS I got it without a fence and put on a vega.
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