I didn’t want to hijack Phish’s discussion so I thought I’d start a new thread. I just finished up most of my house’s craftsman style trim without a dust collector! I realize that I need something more than my Fein vacuum. The 8-inch jointer and portable thinkness planer spewed 2 cans of wood chips which I had to sweep up.
In my new garage shop, I had a 20 Amp circuit pulled for the dust collector but I’m not sure that I want to commit to a big dust collector yet. I was thinking of a smaller dust collector, like the Jet 1HP with a canister filter that I can just move from machine to machine. Will this pick up dust from my jointer and planer with a short run?
I have given up on dust collection on the table saw since its a contractor’s style saw. Someday, I am going to purchase a cabinet saw or small slider.
Replies
Jm,
Not sure if you saw my post to Phish but might wanna have a gander at it. The Delta 50-760 1½HP single stage I have is working just great for me. Also, Delta has a new one, 50-720 that comes with a cannister that looks on paper to be a good one.
Just some ideas for ya.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,Thanks for your quick response. My issue is the size of the 1½HP dust collectors. With the exception of the cylones, the 1½HP models are the same size as the 2HP models. The Jet 1HP dust collector is about 50% smaller (and only 650 CFM).
Jointerman,
They tried to convince me the Jet 1 hp was adequate for my small shop. I only use one tool at a time, I can get close, etc. and I almost bought it. I bought the jet 1.5 hp 115 when I compared the two side by side. The price differential is not that significant, especially now its on sale. The capacity across the board is probably double so it gives me flexibility down the road. I've had it about a month now and sure enough I'm looking at other uses for that second port. Part of the issue is the filter does such a good job compared to me shop vac I want ot use it more...
So it seems that no one has a 1HP DC? The 1.5HP DC seems twice as big. That's a lot of room to dedicate to my garage shop for something that isn't sharp and dangerous!
Jm,
That's a lot of room to dedicate to my garage shop for something that isn't sharp and dangerous!
There are few machines in your shop that have the potential that all that dust has from all those sharp machines. I had a woodshop for 20+ years with no dust collection and worse yet no hearing protection either. I started with a ShopVac and it didn't cut the mustard, not even close. Oh, it worked OK for small tools but they are no match for a TS, BS, Joiner or Planer.
You'll find that a dust collection system is a lot more important than any other machine in your woodshop. Now I gotta ask ya the big one: How important are your lungs? Sorry, had to ask.
O looked at 1 HP units right beside the 1½ HP and the 1½ units are not all that bigger and for the 550 CFM gain with the price differential............. Again, how much are your lungs worth. Oh yeah, there are lots bigger like cyclones but if you can get down to 1 micron you're well on your way. Couple that with a good respirator and.........
Don't mean to be difficult, just want you to have fun and stay healthy. OH yeah and another thing. Because I never wore ear protection till recently, I have a constant ringing in my ears. Sometimes it is difficult to get to sleep.
No, I don't get any commisions from anyone, 'cept maybe from the wife now and then. :-) I'll post some pics here tomorrow of how I set up mine. You wanna talk about cramped...............
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 2/18/2008 8:57 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
No matter how big the shop they all wind up cramped!
I think there is a law of nature that says your stuff will expand to fit the space available!I've seen shops half of a city block that you could not walk through without turning sideways!
Hi Bob,I actually snuck into my shop to cut and dado a couple of panels during lunch today and I made a bunch of fine dust. The tools I used today couldn't really use a dust collector, my FT plunge saw (virtually no dust when connected to my Fein vacuum!) and my PC router... gobs of dust! I'm looking for a dust collector to mainly collect dust from the Jointer and Planer. I guess maybe I should think beyond those? But it still seems that a good shop vac is needed.BTW: Oddly, even my respirator seemed to leak fine particle into my lungs today with the router! I think I'm going to start a new thread about to see if the FT router and dust collection actually work!
I have the 1100cfm. It'll pull from a planer and tablesaw at the same time pretty well. If you're only running one machine and cap the other inlet, it moves a lot of air. I've only got 20' of hose but I suspect not many with a "portable" unit are going to go much farther than that.
Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
Jm,
I had posted some pics earlier today of what I have done so far. Tonight I finished the prototype for my RAS/CMS setup. Will post them tomorrow for ya. Just some ideas for ya.
http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=40281.4
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Listen to what Bob @Kidderville has to say, as well as the others with lots of experiences.
I, too, have the Delta 50-760. It's is good for several reasons:
1. Efficient yet 2. inexpensive compared to many larger units (Oneidas ?)
3. Top rated in many toold reviews
4. this one can filter to 1 micron ( better than most and that's why you buy one)
They are called dust collectors, not chip collectors.
5. Only a few inches wider and longer than the less effective, smaller units
I made the mistake of buying a "cheaper" one. It lacked volume (couldn't keep up with my jointer) and didn't filter the air well at all (30 microns-I didn't do my research). It was used 3 times, still like new. I'm still trying to think of some way to make use of its' components.
Three things you owe yourself, good quality dust collection, hearing protection and eye protection.
work safely
bum
...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
If you are not going to bother with DC to your tablesaw, then things are simplified. All you need is chip collection to your jointer and planer so you don't have to sweep up the chips. You don't need to bother with fine dust collection since the tablesaw will fill your shop up with all the fine dust one could need anyhow!
I have a 1 HP General DC (that I am in the process of upgrading to a cyclone). I run it through flex hose to a Lee Valley trash can separator, then about 20 feet of 4" PVC, several 90 degree bends, and drop from blast gates using flex hose to four different machines in the shop.
Of course this ducting is nuts on such a dinky system, I have nowhere near enough CFM. That being said, I find that my system works almost OK on the planer, barely OK on the jointer, and pathetically on the tablesaw and bandsaw.
If you are just going to connect with a short length of hose then you will probably be able to collect most of the chips with the 1 HP. Especially since the jointer and planer tend to produce more shavings/chops than dust.
A trashcan separator might be convenient, I find that almost all the chips land in mine, I rarely have to empty the filter bag. Of course, they really cut down on the CFM.
I don't see that going to 1.5 or 2 HP will help you much. They are still not big enough for fine dust collection, which is the next step. The tablesaw is the 2000 lb gorilla in your living room. That problem needs to be solved for proper dust collection.
No point to upgrade to better filters to protect your lungs until you get the tablesaw connected to DC, you should take some other measures to protect yourself however. A proper cartridge mask, keep the big garage door open with a big fan going as much as you can to get clean air in, use a compressor or something to blow the fine dust out regularly, consider installing a ceiling mounted air filter.
View the 1 HP unit as a temporary solution, keep it cheap, take some other measures to keep the dust levels down, save up to fix the tablesaw problem and for a better (i.e. two stage cyclone ala Pentz/Clearvue) longer term solution, and meanwhile educate yourself about the options.
Good luck!
Daninvan,Thanks for the great insights on the 1HP dust collector. Finally some insight from a user of a 1HP DC. Chip collection is my main problem right now. To protect my lungs, I do often wear a respirator and connect many of my hand held tools to a shop vac. But from what I'm hearing, it sounds like the jointer and planer will put out so much saw dust that I'll be spending a lot of time emptying the bags too. The table saw is a tough one for me solve since it is a contractor saw with an open bottom and no blade guard, (it does have a Biesy splitter for some safety though). Until I can upgrade my saw, I think I'll be wearing my cartridge dust filter.
There are dust collector hoods/adapaters for the contractors saws, that bolt onto the bottom and have a 4-inch port to connect to the dust collector. You will have to make up a set of plates for the back out of 1/4-inch plywood and some magnets to close that off as best you can.
I think that you will be surprised at how little dust gets away once you have installed these items and hookd up a real dust collector. The more cfm, it can draw the better, because there are leaks, but if you are drawing in enough air, through the system, it will trap most everything, and particularly the small stuff that is the worst on your lungs.
Hi Jogs,
I have a 1½HP Delta w/1 micron bag and see very little powder on any of my machines. I think one big reason for this is that I have an overhead air filter. I start this up well ahead of starting any power tools, to get the air flowing in the shop, and I leave it on all the time I'm in there.
Works for me.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I've just started looking at the dust collection adapters for contractors saws. I'm glad to hear that they work. I wasn't sure if you could pull the sawdust from a contractors saw or not.What about the top of the saw, do you have any kind of guard to collect dust off the top? It looks as if I'd need to put something like the Shark Guard or Ekator blade guard on to get effective dust collection. Currently I only have a splitter and it's quite annoying being pelted by little bits of fine sawdust, especially if you are just trimming off less than 1/8 of an inch.Of course this begs the question, is it time to find the money to buy a cabinet saw? I think that I only do wood working because I like to buy tools!
I have the Biesemeyer guard for mine but haven't gotten it installed yet. But, realistically most of the dust will stay under the table, particularly if you have good suction.
The saw cuts at the front and drags the sawdust down through the insert, so most of it gets inside, and the air flow down through the kerf at the back tends to pull anything that is headed back out down and in.
The key to making it work is sealing off the air leaks. On some saws there are gaps between the webs on the bottom of the top, and the cabinet, that need to get closed off, and the back. The gaps between the top and the cabinet, I just stuffed weather stripping in.
The back isn't too hard so long as the blade is vertical, which is the majority of cuts I make. To seal off the back I started with the foam core display board and just started trimming to fit until things were pretty tight, (be sure to move the saw through a full range of height adjustment, to be sure everything clears).
Then I used the foam core as the template to layout the pattern on some 1/4-inch mdf. I got some magnet tape and stuck the mdf on the back of the saw. It stays in place, but comes off in a minute if a need to tilt the blade. The gaps, I just stuffed foam weather stripping in.
Jm,
To cover the arch shaped opening on the back, a few refrigerator magnets work good for me. On two of them I cut a small arc to fit around the crank handle/shaft. They move when you tilt the blade so a little repositioning might be necessary. I don't tilt the blade all that much so it isn't a problem with me anyway.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I've got a Delta 1.5 HP DC connected about 10 ft. from my Delta 36-180 Contractor Tablesaw, and I have no complaints with it's ability to keep up. There's a great article (kind of old though) about smaller dust collectors on this website somewhere. Hang on, I'll see if I can find it...
Here it is: http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/Workshop/WorkshopPDF.aspx?id=2641
As far as I'm concerned, the Delta 1.5 hp was a great buy. I don't have a jointer or planer yet, but as long as I don't position it a 1/4 mile away, I don't think I'll have any trouble with it then either. It also doesn't take up that much more space than the 1 hp.
I also recommend hooking it up to that single 20 amp breaker. I know it's an overkill for a small DC, but it's handy to have it on it's own circuit. That is, of course, if you have more room for all of the other tools you're running with it.
You could also buy a DC insert for the bottom of that tablesaw. If the manufacturer doesn't offer one, Grizzly has some "universal inserts" that I'm sure you could make do with if you're determined enough.
Edited 2/19/2008 11:12 am ET by marti038
I've got the 50-760 1½ HP Delta, probably the same one as you have. Also have a Delta Contractors TS too. All I have done so far is to make a base out of ½" plywood that sits in the bottom of the upper base just under the table that holds one of the large dust receptacles with a 4" outlet in it.
Then it's just a matter of pluggin up any holes so the air gets drawn through the blade insert on the table. If you plug it up too tight it gets air bound. Mine works so good now that I'm not sure I need to attach DC to the guard.
As you have found I too am in the process of installing a separate 20 amp circuit just for the DC. Makes a lot of sense especially in a small woodshop like I have.
Also, I would echo all your comments about this DC. The longest run I have is a little less than 8'. Have you had a chance to check out the new 50-720? It's got a cannister instead of the bag and I'm wondering if the cannister will fit the 50-760. My bet is that it will.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
In case those of you with a cabinet saw aren't convinced that you need a dust collector, consider what happens when the sawdust piles up as high as the motor. The reason I bring this up is that I recently spoke to a fellow who let this happen. Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Just MY opinion.. I had the small JET.. Gave it to the local school..
My shop VAC worked better! I have NOTHING against JET.. BUT my Ridgid vacuum worked better FOR ME...
Jointerman,
My dust collection pulpit.
I have a very nice dust pump. It is 2HP 1200 CFM with a 1 micron felt bag - aka filter attached to the discharge. It is nicely portable - 4 little casters that stall on everything.
It is not - NOT a dust collector. It is a very satisfactory chip collector.
It leaves a very deadly talcum powder residue everywhere. This is the killer dust that gets pushed through the felt bag and back into the air.
I also wear a 3M 8293 respirator at all times when in the shop.
You have received a lot of advice. My advice is to go to Bill Pentz' site, learn about dust. Then make your decision.
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
I came across this site after I had bought my dust pump. What an eye opener!
My experience would suggest that your table saw will generate far more toxic dust than your jointer or planer. The stuff that falls to the floor will not hurt you, the stuff that hangs in the air for hours on end will kill you.
Don
I bought the Jet 1 hp DC with bags last fall when Rockler had a super deal on them (less than half price after rebate). While I'd like to have a canister on top instead of the bag, I didn't have that choice. In my small 1/2 garage shop (car usually in the other half) it works fine. I use it on my table saw, jointer, planer and spindle/belt sander. Yes, someday when I have a large dedicated shop I'll get a bigger, better DC system, but for now it works great one machine at a time.
Well, I think that everyone here has convinced me that:1) It's better to go with a 1.5 HP or more for a DC
a. Especially when using a jointer or planer2) It is possible to collect dust from my Delta contractor sawSo... my next question. I was originally looking at the Delta 50-760 like Bob has. But it seems like the filter bag can be a pain to deal with as well as the chip collection bag. So I started looking at things like the cartridge filter for the Delta, and the price starts going up fast! Now it looks like I could go to a small cyclone from Penn State Ind. for $595. Does anyone have any pictures of these in their shop? I wanted to get a sense of scale, as we all know, you never have enough space in the shop.
Jointerman,
I don't think you read the link from Don. Here it is again. Bill is very serious about Dust Collection, and how to handle chips. Reading this I see my 1.5 HP Delta is woefully inadequate for my needs.
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
I have printed this off and am studying it further. A couple of conclusions that I have arrived at.
1. If you can locate the cyclone outside the shop, the dust (1 micron talc) is pushed outside and out of your space. I have built an outside shed attached to my garage shop to house the cyclone and 1 micron bag. It will vent my entire space at 1800 CFM.
2. The noise is outside and not in my space.
3. 6" main ducts and short flex laterals to machines.
4. All machines need two sources of DC points. Below and above. TS send alot of dust out with the blade, even in a cabinet saw. The worst is MDF, and particle boards. Maybe overkill, maybe not, but the argument is pretty strong.
5. Great charts for CFM supplied and required, he has done some competent research.
Good Luck
AZMO..... When you think you are finished there are two more things to do.....
Edited 2/26/2008 10:10 pm ET by AZMO
AZMO,I did read some of Bill Penz's massive site. That and other posts have really gotten me thinking more about fine dust, dust collection, and the hassles of cleaning the dust collector. This is why I am now considering a cyclone. Even though I'm really just an advanced beginner woodworker, I want an enjoyable environment in which I can safely work. That said, I'm also worried about the size of a cyclone, which is why I'd like to see what one looks like in the context of someone's shop.
Jm,
which is why I'd like to see what one looks like in the context of someone's shop.
Do a search in here on cyclone. This topic has been debated ad nauseum and you should see several configurations.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
You are on the right track Jointerman.
I never really looked at Penn State or Oneida, but sometimes they have user forums where customers talk, post pictures of their installations. That might be a way to locate someone in your area who might have a real live one for viewing.
I went and looked at their specs and would ask you to look carfully at the flow.
The $595.00 models are rated at 650 CFM. The $695.00 model TEMP142CX is rated at 1000 CFM. This machine should run for a long time. The extra capacity is well worth the investment.Don
Not sure. Planers are about the worst offenders. If you're convinced it'll handle the planer, you're home free.
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