I tried searching archives w/o luck, so sorry for the repost.
I first got into woodworking because of norm (nyw) and I keep adding to my power tool collection, but would like to get into hand work for some finishing.
What plane would you suggest starting with? LN website says low angle block plane, but I’d like member feedback.
I have a jointer and planer, so this makes sense?
I build mostly small furniture projects.
Thanks, Brad
Replies
I'm kind of a beginner as well, but LN's suggestion sounds like a good one to me. My only hand plane so far is a low-angle block plane, and it's really handy for various small operations. For instance, if I somehow break a small piece of wood off a corner, I can repair it by smoothing the missing section with a chisel, then cutting a small piece of the same wood from scraps, and gluing it in place. Then, to trim this patch down to the level of the surrounding wood, I can just run the block plane over it. I don't know how you'd do such a thing with a large stationary power tool, but even if you could it's so much easer and more controllable with a small hand plane.
After the block plane, the common advice I see is to next get a #4 or #4-1/2 bench plane.
It really depends on what you are going to be doing with it. I would first buy a bigger plane. LN planes are great. I recently bought a Veritas Low angle Jackk Plane. It is the best Plane that I have bought. I also have a LN low angle brass block plane. It also is great, but it is limited in what it can do. A bigger plane can flatten and joint. I would go with something like a 4 or 4 1/2 first.
Kaleo Kala
A low angle block plane works well on endgrain, so that cut where you might have gotten a wee bit of burning on a table saw -- a swipe or two with a low-angle block will clean that up faster than you could find the sander.
I have the adjustable mouth low-angle block as well as the smaller, non-adjustable regular angle block. I use them both all the time.
I would suggest two planes as a starter set. The low angle block plane (I believe the LN version without the adjustable mouth is ~100 USD) and a #5 jack. The latter is an all around plane that you can use to flatten and finish most woods and projects. If cost is an issue, you can buy an old Bailey #5 for ~30-50 USD depending on condition and tune it up yourself ("fettle") in a couple of hours with some sandpaper of different grits and a sheet of float glass. These two planes will cover ~90% of most needs. Total investment: ~150 USD. This should leave enough money leftover (with whatever coins you can find in your sofa) to buy Garrett Hack's excellent "The Handplane Book". Then start saving up for a LN 4 1/2 smoother with a high angle frog for those highly figured woods...GlauconIf you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Edited 8/1/2006 4:52 pm ET by Glaucon
Finishing? Why not choose a small high angle plane? There are a couple things I don't like about low angle planes.
For finish work, I prefer to have a rounded/cambered iron. This geometry is tricky with LA planes.
The other thing is the way you hold it. I prefer a traditional tote- especially for finishing.
That said, I don't agree this is a great first plane. I'd rather see beginning planers with roughing planes or long planes as their first planes. Long planes provide a capability machines lack. Roughing planes allow you to become familair with the mechanism and operation of a plane at a low cost (I think a used S#5 or 6 is fine for this work- silly to buy a fancy plane for rough work).
So I'd rather see you with either of those planes, but neither will be a good replacement for sandpaper. Speaking of which, and realizing this may sound elitist (attention Adam haters!), I think planes have become subsititutes for belt sanders and RO palm sanders and I think that's a bad thing. Folks are missing out on the fun of planes by limiting their use to finish work. Its no wonder there's so much confusion about what to buy when every possible plane is offered for sale as a finishing plane. We're already starting to see the dumbing down of the hand plane into one low angle, jack/smoother multi plane that seems to excel at nothing.
Adam
"Its no wonder there's so much confusion about what to buy when every possible plane is offered for sale as a finishing plane"You are so right about the confusion -- especially for those of us without tons of experience or skill with hand tools. The number of types available and their specific function can be a bit intimidating to the neophyte. As you say, folks are missing out on the fun (only fun when you start to get it) of using a hand plane. I think that the beginner can become frustrated trying to understand what each plane is used for and how to achieve desired results. What finally helped me begin to understand this tool was working with an experienced woodworker with a ton of skill and the patience to explain (and demystify) use of hand planes. With a little explanation and encouragement to just use the damn things a little, he inspired me to begin developing some new skills. But you know Adam, plane makers have to make a buck too, so if they promote in a way that perhaps dumbs down the hand plane, well...
...would like to get into hand work for some finishing.
What plane would you suggest starting with? LN website says low angle block plane, but I'd like member feedback
Hi Brad
You ask about a plane for finishing, and you also ask about a block plane. These are two separate issues.
Firstly, the recommended plane for finishing is a smoother. Examples include a Stanley or LN #4 (for bevel down and iron construction), a LV LA Smoother (for bevel up and iron construction), and HNT Gordon or Knight Toolworks (for a woodie). Frankly, for a beginner, I would be looking at the Stanley #4, since you can pick one up really cheaply on eBay, and it will do all you want on non-demanding woods. The only complicating factor is if you are working with woods with much interlinked grain, and then the #4 will be out of its depth. But that is another story.
A block plane can be used as a smoother but it is really too small for this task (under usual conditions, that is). It is best considered for trimming, chamfering edges, and smoothing endgrain. While the LN LA block plane is excellent, as is the LV version, I would again be searching out a vintage Stanley #60 1/2 (LA version) or #9 1/2 (standard angle version) on eBay. There is not a lot of difference between these two versions, with the LA slightly better on endgrain and the SA better on face grain.
Folks are missing out on the fun of planes by limiting their use to finish work. Its no wonder there's so much confusion about what to buy when every possible plane is offered for sale as a finishing plane. We're already starting to see the dumbing down of the hand plane into one low angle, jack/smoother multi plane that seems to excel at nothing.
Hi Adam
Yes, smoothers tend to be seen as the sportscars of the plane world - they have all the glamour and sex appeal. There are so many more interesting and fun handplanes to choose, such as scrubs, moulding planes and spokeshaves. But I would not classify the LA Jack (and LA Smoother) as "dumbing down". While they are indeed akin to a multi plane, they are not like the proverbial "Jack of all trades but master of none". These are capable of excelling at any of the functions asked of them, and doing a better job than dedicated planes. The reality is that I do not use mine as a "mult plane". My LV LA Jack is reserved for the shooting board or as a panel plane. The job of a jack goes to a Stanley #5 1/2. Mostly because I get lazy and prefer to have a plane set up and ready-to-go. However, for the woodworker seeking to reduce the number of planes, or to afford just one good one, these BU planes offer a genuine bargain.
Regards from Perth
Derek
" Speaking of which, and realizing this may sound elitist (attention Adam haters!), I think planes have become subsititutes for belt sanders and RO palm sanders and I think that's a bad thing."
I am not an Adam hater-but I believe most strongly in minimising the dreaded sanding-and belt sanders are for parquet floors and boat builders .
The first plane I got was an English Stanley #41/2, when planes were planes, then came a 51/2 Record. Forty years later I am still saying the 51/2 should have come first because this is the most versatile , even for smaller furniture projects.Philip Marcou
I am certainly not an Adam Hater, in fact I take my hat off to anyone that enjoys using handplanes to the extent that Adam does and I certainly enjoy using my planes. I believe that the fact of the matter is this, a good many of the participants on this forum are quite competent woodworkers with a limited amount of time to do their woodworking. This being the case they will always depend on their machinery to get most of the wood processing done. However most of them have been woodworking long enough to have gotten over any joy they may have found in sanding and therefore will be using smoothing planes to bypass all but the final grits in the this process. For the ones of us that have full time jobs in our shops we have nor the time or the will to be exposed to that much dust, and for that reason the smoothing planes will always get more work than the rest of the planes in my shop. Hence I will always invest more money in smoothing planes than any other type.RonEdited 8/8/2006 11:48 pm ET by Ronaway
Edited 8/8/2006 11:49 pm ET by Ronaway
Aldren Watson's classic book on Hand Tools recommends, for a very basic 2 plane shop, a block plane and a jack rabbet (Stanley #10, LN Bench Rabbet).
I spent a couple hours last Saturday tuning a crappy Stanley block plane bought at a hardware store about 12 years ago. It is pretty satisfying to see (and smell) transparently thin cedar shavings coming out of the throat of a $5 tool.
Keep it simple at first. Start with a used low angle block plane and #4 or 5 bench plane that you can easily pickup for less than $30. Use them , sharpen them, and you will eventually learn what is best for you. LN and these guys are just trying to make a living selling their high priced tools.
Amen.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
There is truth in what everyone else is saying, but I'll throw in my 2 cent's anyway.
A block plane in my most-used plane. Period. I use it mostly for making rails and stiles flush, where sandpaper would round the edges too much. Of all the block planes I have, including vintage Stanleys; the L/N adjustable low angle block is my favorite. It just feels nice.
Smoothers ARE sexy, but I find myself polishing them more than using them. Jacks and jointers are the real workhorses of the bench plane family.
Other useful planes are shoulder planes. Of those I prefer the Stanley 93 over the L/N large shoulder plane.
Not all planes are used for precision work. Jacks, rabbets, and scrubs fall in this category. Buy vintage Stanleys for these and save a few bucks.
You can be perfectly happy, though, with nothing but a block plane.
Dan
I agree with you about the block plane. Several things:1. A blcok plane is very handy for touching up joints of all types- from coped moldings and picture frame miters to tenons and end grain. Since hundreds of thousands of them have been sold, someone must be using them.2. A jack plane is for flattening stock and can be used for finishing and even jointing if need be.3. Block planes and jack planes do different things.4. The combined cost of the two (bought used and in good condition and then fettled) is under a $100.5. Therefore, buy both.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
All;
Thanks for the advice and guidance. From the many different views/recommendations, I confirmed why i asked the question ... there really isn't a good answer.
I think i'll start w/ the hand plane book and educate myself.
Used vs new: I haven't had great success with used tools, so i tend to look towards buying new. Fortunately, a $300 LN hand plane isn't a deterent. Unfortunately, that's because I work way too many hrs and don't get in the shop as much as i'd like.
Thank you again to every for your guidance and i'll post a pic of my first hand plane in the near future.
Brad
There have been a lot of very good answers to this sometimes vexing question. If anyone is interested there's a bit of a "primer" to starting off with hand planes at the link below. It won't be to everybody's taste but its not a bad starting place nonetheless.
Hand Planes - Where To Begin?
Good God, a low-angle block plane would be one of the last planes I would buy. I work wood in a non-electric shop except for an ancient lathe.
Get a Jack plane or something longer as a few others have suggested.
My mentor suggested starting out with a #4 1/2 smoother. It's wider and heavier than the #4. I also bought a low angle block plane not long after.
I use machines and hand tools in my shop. The low angle block plane gets used more often, but the 4 1/2 get used longer. From your position I suspect that you'll find the block plane a little more satisfying. I recomend the Veritas Low angle block plane, its a great value.
Howdy!
You've gotten good -- if somewhat conflicting -- advice so far. To confuse things even more, here's my nickle's worth: ;-)
Hand planes are fairly specialized tools; they can get real specialized, if you want to get that far into using them, but it's not necessary.
IMO, if you want to use hand planes to best advantage, then you need a couple of them. The "standard" hand plane kit is usually something like this:
Low angle block plane;
#4 or #4-1/2 smoothing plane;
#5 or #5-1/2 jack plane;
#6 or #7 or #8 trying/jointer plane;
Or wooden equivilents. There's not a lot that you can't do with those four planes. (Fifth plane: either a shoulder plane; or a scrub plane, if you intend to do your stock prep from scratch with hand planes.)
Before you buy a plane, I suggest that you buy and read Garrett Hack's Hand Plane Book; it will tell you just about everything you really need to know about hand planes and hand planing; I assure you that it will be money well spent. There are a couple of other very good hand plane books out there, as well, but Hack's is probably the best general book on planes and planing.
Acquiring them: buy new from LN, LV, Clifton, or one of the wooden plane makers; buy used from the infamous auction site or from one of the used tool dealers. If possible, you should "test drive" a high-quality plane -- LN, LV, Clifton, for metal planes -- so you know what a good plane will do and what "right" looks like; same thing applies to wooden planes, if you go with woodies. Used tools can be a really good deal and can save you lots of $$$, IF you know what to look for and are willing to spend the time and effort to find one in good shape, and then fettle it. (If you decide to go with used tools, then also get Mike Dunbar's book on Restoring and Using Classic Hand Tools; the hand plane sections are well-done, and go into considerable detail on restoring old planes.)
Cost: Used tools from the auction site (LA BP, #4, #5, #7): about $125 to $150, depending on what you have to pay for the #7. Same planes as new LNs: $1100 +. Used will also cost you a couple of hours of fettling time, and possibly $30 to $50 each, for new irons, as required.
[Truth in advertising disclosure: Hand planes are my favorite tools, so I can't (and won't) claim that I am "unbiased" about hand planes. My plane arsenal includes several of Mr. Lie-Nielsen's creations, a number of old (pre-WW II) Stanley bench planes, and a Sargent VBM #8 and a Union #6C.]
Recommendation: since you already have an electron-munching planer and jointer, I'd say that it's a toss up between the LA block plane and the #4 or #4-1/2 smoother. It depends on what you are building, as to which plane would be the most useful. Brands? How much money do you want to/are you able to spend? If you want to spend little, then go for the used Stanley, etc. If you're willing to spend more, then my recommendation would be the LN . (If you buy the LN #4, you can also buy a high angle frog separately for about $75, which will help you handle cranky-grained woods....)
Since you mention that you mostly build small furniture projects, a consideration for a smoother might be a #3 rather than a #4. The smaller plane would be very handy for things like jewelry and other small boxes, and so forth, yet it is large enough to use as a "full" smoother for larger projects, too.
If metal planes are not what you're looking for, then woodies may suit your needs. A couple of the other posters have already mentioned a couple of the modern wooden plane makers; used/antique wooden planes are also available.
Hope that this is of some use to you.
Tschüß!
Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen!
James
Edited 8/3/2006 11:03 am by pzgren
If you really want to get some conversation going, read some articles by Christopher Schwarz of Woodworking Magazine, or obtain his video on Coarse, Medium, and Fine.
Realistically, a block plane handles most of my odd jobs and quick fixes. I use it about 20 percent of the time. A Smoother (45%) and Jointer (25%) will cover 70 percent of your other needs.
Next, a shoulder plane is handy, and a rabbet plane is a lot of fun, as well as being handy. I use both of these planes about 5 percent of the time.
If you can not afford but one plane, I would opt for the Jack Plane (#5 or #5 1/2) It does a lot of things well, but none of them perfectly. (As the old saying goes, a jack of all trades and master of none!)
The Jack Plane does make a nice supplement if you do all of your board sizing only with handplanes. Then I would opt for the #4 1/2, the #5 1/2, and the #7. All of these take the same size blade.
If you were looking for a sliding scale of where to spend your money I would recommend buying the best Smoother you can afford, a good Jointer, and a decent Jack Plane. The Smoother should have the tightest tolerances as this is the tool that is going to give you your final surface. Flattening with the Jointer and Jack planes is more an exercise in "getting close enough!"
I would always opt for a block plane from a decent manufacturer, preferably with an adjustable mouth. I have tuned a lot of small block planes from Stanley (older models), Record, and Millers Falls and gotten very good results with them.
Small model maker planes are too specialized.
Like a lot of things in life, there is more than one way to do things and a lot of opinions in how to get there. If money is no object, buy at least the Lie Nielsen Smoother and Block Plane. If money is an object, spend a little on a good book like Garrett Hack's Handplanes and review past issues of Fine Woodworking. They reviewed several things to look for when buying a used handplane. Then, shop flea markets and E-bay for Stanley, Millers Falls, or Record brands.
One word of warning! Buying and using handplanes is addictive once you learn how to sharpen and use them! Sometimes I just take a board and make shavings just to hear the blade sing and to hold up a wispy shaving and read newsprint through it. It sooths the mind and takes a little of the stress of the world away for a few minutes.
Thanks again to all for the info. I reread my post and should restate:
There are many good answers, but not one right answer.
Thanks again, Brad
As a finish carp my tools are somewhat different from those who are pure woodworkers so take this for what it's worth.
My primary non-electric plane is a LN low angle adjustable mouth block plane for taking small amounts of wood from hear or there that are too small to get a good cut with the electric hand-held plane.
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My second most used plane is the smaller low angle fixed mouth block plane. It's mostly for trim work and it's small size fits in a tool belt well.
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My third hand plane was a chisel plane for cleaning up glue and other such inside corner work on site built cabinets.
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The fourth plane is another LN, the medium shoulder plane, for cleaning up tenons for craftsmen style tables used as builtins, and rabits cut with tablesaws.View Image
I also have a hinge mortise plane, but it's not used since aquiring a trim router that is dedicated to that purpose.
Next I'd like to get a LN 4-1/2. With it's 2-3/8" wide blade it's able to take a full width skew cut on the edge of a door, or to remove saw marks from the edges of narrow boards.
View Image
For my uses, that's pretty much what makes financial sense on a cost/benefit basis, but I'd most people i'd like to get a few more Lie Nielsons for personal projects.
Cheers
trout, thanks for the detailed response.
i did order a book so i can learn more, but the more i think about it what i'm really looking for is a plane to fit doors and drawer fronts. i'll continue to use my planer/jointer and sand paper for table tops, legs, aprons, etc, but I need a better system for drawer and door fitting.
Thanks, Brad
I don't think that many people would argue with the adjustable mouth block plane as a good "first" plane. I have about fifteen planes (LN's, old Stanleys etc.) including the Adjustable Mouth Low Angle Block. I find it very versatile. The same is true of the smaller bronze one. However, one of my favorite, and I think underrated planes is the LN #2. It is small enough for trimming duties and a lot of the things you would use a block plane for, but you can also use it for shooting, and it is surprisingly good for smoothing smaller surfaces. I think it is a solid performer.
I hate the low quality of the LN, and only buy the more expensive norris-type planes, but you had good commerial photos!
I also enjoy the finer infill planes for final smoothing, and I own some Lie-Nielsen planes and I believe them to be some of the finest and highest quality production planes available.Ron
This question gets asked a lot..
The best plane to learn with is either a block plane of a No5 ..
The No5 is my choice and I believe David Charlesworth reccommend his students buy a No5 1/2 which are hard to find used and cost a lot new..
I would say to search eBay and buy a nice No5 and replace the blade with a LN or Ron Hock and you will have a very good starter plane to lear from..
I have a website that covers a lot on hand planes
http://www.rexmill.com
I am a good golfer and carry a 10 handicap at age 67, but the point I was trying to make was it looked like a paid commerial for LN. "I could be wrong"
No good deed goes unpunished.
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