Replies

1. 
   DWRead | Jan 24, 2003 07:16pm | #1

   I used Zinnser shellac and there's very little odor. The alcohol fumes were not bad at all, but I still worked with the windows open. As it dries almost immediately (provided you wait long enough between coats), there was no problem with dust blowing onto the surface.

   However...you might want to take a look at discussion #9849, which recommends diluting premixed shellac with an equal amount of alcohol. That's double the fumes. Does the basement have windows?

   I hope you aren't a smoker.

   Janet

1. 
   tv190s | Jan 24, 2003 09:40pm | #2

   This office has 2 windows so ventilation wouldn't be a problem,

   however, its the dead of winter here in Ohio. The idea of using

   Shellac to finish this paneling came about because of the low odor

   appeal. So I was figuring no need to worry about killing myself

   with fumes from say....laquer or poly. Nope, not a smoker.

   Plus the more I learned about Shellac the nicer I think it'll

   make the white oak look. Lastly, if I wait to finish the paneling

   til Spring-ish, then that just adds more delay to an already 2 yr

   project. Whew....OK enough of that.

   I'm probably going to order flakes, based on recommendations on this

   forum, rather than use Bullseye or something else.

   One more question I forgot to post -

   Cut: What's a good cut to use for this project?

   Again, thanks for the input.

   Matt

1. 
   Alan | Jan 25, 2003 12:24am | #3

   Matt,

   Getting flakes and mixing your own is a good idea.  Mixed shellac has a shelf life of about six months--no matter that the manufacturers say one year--while flakes will remain good until the next millennium.

   A three pound cut (three pounds of flakes in one gallon of alcohol) is generally what you get in ready-mixed.  That's too thick.  A one pound cut (one pound of flakes in a gallon of alcohol) is what I usually make.  The thinner cut gives me greater control and makes it more fool proof to use (though we fools can be very ingenious).  Mistakes are easily fixed with either more shellac or a rub with a 0000 steel wool pad dipped in alcohol.

   A one pound cut means you'll need more coats.  Figure on at least five coats; you may need some fewer or more depending on the look you want.  Remember though you can apply several coats in a day, so it's not all that much more work.

   I always wax things I've finished with shellac.  I very much like the combination:  the wax adds something to the finish that seems to deepen it and gives it a lovely, pleasingly tactile surface.  I've brewed up some waxes of my own with bees wax, paraffin, carnuba wax, and for some projects some pigment.  I've also used store-bought colored waxes.  They all work well.  I think the wax helps the shellac be more resistant to abrasion and water.

   Get a good quality genuine bristle brush--not a man made product like nylon.  A badger fitch brush would be great; but they're too expensive and shellac is so forgiving it's unnecessary.  I use a good China bristle brush.  But as usual, don't cheap out on your tools.

   In a closed room the fumes might be a bit much.  When I have to use shellac in a small space I wear a respirator with the proper cartridge.

   Others will chime in with other ideas.  Because shellac is so easy and forgiving there are lots of different ways to get great results.

   I'm sorry this is so long.  I hope it helps.

   Alan

2. 
   davamoore | Jan 25, 2003 03:33pm | #7

   Matt, here's a link to Jeff Jewitt's site and an article he wrote on shellac:  history, use, tips, etc.  It's pretty comprehensive:

   http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/shellac.htm

   David"The world that was not made is not won by what is done" -- Mundaka Upanishad

1. 
   tv190s | Jan 25, 2003 05:26pm | #8

   First off, thanks all for the tips.

   Let me try to answer some of the questions -

   I do have a window in the office that I can open.  I'll do that even if it is cold outside.  The paneling (actually wood flooring) is already installed.  When I built our house a couple years ago, I had a few bundles of white oak 3/4 flooring left over and didn't have an immediate use for it.  So after some thought decided to put it up in my office as a wainscoating or paneling. 

   As far as color, I decided on Super Blonde.  The woodfinishing.com (I think that's it) web site had some samples online to view.  I don't want much color, just a little ambering to occur.  More than anything I want to hopefully produce some depth and highlighting of the grain patterns. 

   I decided against water poly because I don't think it produces any of what I just mentioned.  I've used water poly alot and do like using it, but it has it's limitations I think.   After hearing some your input, you have me thinking twice about premix vs. flakes.  I was set on flakes from an earlier post I made asking for some input.  

   Does the Zinnser premix come in colors/shades like the flakes do?  I have seen it at the store but didn't look close enough to notice different color available.  Also, I was told that the Zinnser is not dewaxed.  That's only important because at one point I thought about top coating with a poly later on.  But after some thought, I don't think I will top coat it at all.  Just several coats of shellac.

   If any more input, please provide it.  I do appreciate it.  Guess I go by the store this weekend and see about the Zinnser availability.

   Matt

     

1. 
   garth | Jan 25, 2003 09:06pm | #9

   Zinnser has two shellac produces, one they call seal & finish I believe and is a 3# cut and is not dewaxed, the other is called seal coat and is a 2# cut of dewaxed. I think both are amber shellac, can not tell you more about them as I have not used them, I normally mix my own and use 2# cut of dewaxed garrnet most of the time.

   Scott T.

2. 
   SawdustSteve | Jan 25, 2003 01:04am | #4

   Hi Matt and welcome to the board.  Let me put in my two cents worth...  Yes, use a good china bristle brush, not a 'man-made' one.   Ventilation is important, especialy since you are in a basement where your house heater is.  Open one window to get some air moving.  Wait for a nice day, even if it means delaying the project for another month or two.  I use Zinser brand shellac right from the can.  If you buy from either Home Despot or similar big stores, the shellac will be fresh.  Thin the first coat 50/50 with denatured alcohol.  It soaks in better.  All coats after that can be full strength from the can.  Buy 2 quart cans of shellac.  You can always return the second can or buy a third as needed.  There is no need to worry about 'batch numbers' since the color is even from can to can.  I like to lightly sand with 4/0 steel wool between coats.  It just takes off enough of the 'whiskers' that the first coat rises, and any surface bubbles from each extra coat.  Of course, you will have to wipe off any of the dust generated in the sanding process.  After the last coat has dried for several days, you can apply a coating of any good paste wax  (I like Butchers wax) as a final finish.  If you are a beginner to woodworking, mixing your own shellac from flakes can be both time consuming and messy.    Just remember when applying shellac, do a small area at a time so you are adding fresh shellac into slightly wet old shellac.  Do not brush over it too many times as that will cause ridges in the finish.

   SawdustSteve    in freezing New York

3. 
   stancalow | Jan 25, 2003 06:36am | #5

   Matt,  I love shellac, and use it a lot for small projects.  But one reason not to use it alone for panelling, is that any ammonia (think vigorous mopping) or alcohol (think Windex spray, or a drink thrown in your face by a dame) or spattering by water, can spot or ruin the finish.  If you want maintenance free, it needs a poly top coat.   ALso, because it dries so quick, it is not that easy to cover your mistakes in one coat.  You will need multiple.  If you put it on to thick it will dry funny, and need to be stripped and re-done

   I agree with other posters that it would be MUCH easier (and cheaper) to use the Zinsser shellac in a can than to mix flakes, unless you are trying to tinker with the color.  THe flakes are great, but not for big projects.

   If it were me, I would finish in polyurethane varnish, despite the fumes.  The alcohol fumes of shellac aren't good for you either.  How about pre-finishing the panels before you put them on the walls?  Do them in the garage or somewhere else that won't be in the way.

1. 
   BG | Jan 25, 2003 01:37pm | #6

   Matt,

   Have you decided what color Shellac?  Some feel the orange shellac can be a bit intense and after the first coat tone it down with a couple of coats of blond shellac.  My point is you might want to figure that out before you buy too much product of anything.  good luck