Replies

1. 
   PlaneWood | Jan 16, 2003 05:11am | #1

   Here's the most important stuff -

   1) commode, 2) sink, 3) shower, 4) TV, 5) sound system, 6) and a bed!

   or yeah, 7) a fridge stocked with your favorite ale!

   Once you get all that in, then u can start on the other stuff (I figure u already know the other stuff). 

   My 1200 cfm DC is outside, but I live in Houston.  It does suck out my cold air in the summer.

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy
   PlaneWood

1. 
   Eric_Adams | Jan 17, 2003 01:42am | #5

   thanks for the advice...  the shop i work in now mandates that i use the great outdoors for my commode and here in the boston area it has been in the teens and single digits for a couple weeks now and boy is my hinee ready for the luxury of a warm toilet seat.  As far as the other things, the sound system is all set, a huge pair of speakers i built in high school resessed into the ceiling joists pre drywall... my wife just got me a kegerator conversion kit for christmas to convert one of the old frigs into a draught beer temple.  the bed and shower are located in the house so i guess i'm ready to think about the secondary stuff like tools and wood storage..ha, ha!  thanks for the imput

   seriously thought, the other thing running through the cobwebs of my head is the eventuality of getting a bigger space.  is there any system or style of system that is expandable?  or is the bottom line always distiled to hp, cfm, static pressure etc...  will i save money in the long run by over sizing this DC system or is it possible to have too much sucking power (normally i would never ask such a question, isn't bigger always better?), will too much air flow create exsessive noise, vibration, suck my dog throught the cyclone?

   Edited 1/16/2003 5:51:55 PM ET by eadams25

1. 
   noone51 | Jan 17, 2003 07:15am | #6

   E. as Tim Taylor once said.... " The lack of power is directly proportionate to the lack of money " .. At some point your eyes will blead from the lack of positive air pressure and at that point you will need to back off.

   Seriously, I think Cyclone will size a system for you. You should give them a call and see what they say.

2. 
   TKanzler | Jan 17, 2003 07:14pm | #9

   I'd suggest you read everything you can on the subject before buying anything.  Bill Pentz's website, Oneida's, Sandor Nagyszalanczy's book (link at end of post), along with other resources suggested in previous posts are all very informative. 

   To answer you question, DC performance more or less does boil down to CFM and static pressure (hp comes from cfm, static pressure, and blower efficiency).  Remember that neither CFM nor static pressure means anything without the other.  The fan curve for the blower you're using is a collection of points describing how CFM varies with static pressure (increased restriction causes increased static pressure across the blower and results in decreased flow through the blower).  A good cyclone is an investment, and as such, I'd buy one large enough to cover anticipated needs.  Unused capacity will not hurt the unit (ok, airfoil blowers may be an exception), but it shouldn't be too hard to plan for the worst case scenario.  For example, a planer at the far end of the shop would probably need the most flow over the longest run, and have to carry chips uphill if ducting is on the ceiling.  Shorter/smaller duct runs are less demanding.  So, even if you don't have that big planer now, but plan to in the next couple of years, I'd allow for it, if it was me.

   You can mount the unit outside and duct the return air back into the shop, if heating/cooling and noise is an issue.  This is easiest if using a cyclone, or Jet's new canister type.

   http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/070611.aspBe seeing you...

2. 
   noone51 | Jan 16, 2003 06:56am | #2

   E.. you have a small shop and you will not be using all of the tools at one time. So, just buy enough to take care of what you are doing and put in blast gates to close off the other machinery. Sounds to me like 1000 - 1100 CFM will do the trick for you and the small Jet or the Delta will work just fine. Remember, with a DC you are not trying to vaccum anything, you are simply moving air and when things like dust and chips come along for the ride then you have accomplished your goal. Keep it simple, you need the room!.

1. 
   donshop | Jan 16, 2003 07:36am | #3

   I asked about the same questions a few days ago and got lots of advice.  See "new shop" in the list of discussions.

3. 
   BG | Jan 16, 2003 11:03pm | #4

   eadams25,

   I don't have a DC system just a couple of vacs.  I have been monitoring the discussions on here for a few months to see what i could learn before making the plunge myself.  I have been impressed with the depth of knowledge and breadth of experience on here and also the true complexity of the issue.  You have distance from the central unit, different size particulate matter, number of pieces running together, heat loss, grounding, materials, gates, etc. to consider and several hundred dollars to invest.  Everything about this issue reminds me of when i used to do heat and air conditioning take offs from blueprints.  My suggestion is to get it engineered.  There appear to be several companies that will do it for free.  It may cost a little more to do it right...but think about the cost of doing it wrong.  

4. 
   rrwood | Jan 17, 2003 07:46am | #7

   1) Don't put a lot of faith in the CFM numbers posted by the manufacturers.  These are ratings at the fans.  Once you get to the machine, the CFM drops to 1/2 or 1/4 of the posted rating.  Look for some reviews.     There are several good units out there.   Look at them all.  Detla's 1.5 and 2hp units are good systems, so are Jets.  Look for a unit with a 12" impellar.  The Delta 1.5 has a 11.75, Delta 2hp has a 12".

   2) Yes lenght of piping will affect system performance.  Use a 6 inch main and reduce at the machines.  Keep the lenght of runs to a minmin. 

   3) If mounted outside, a DC will suck all the heat and AC out of the shop.  Most folks want this air to return back to the shop.

   Before you buy, ask alot of questions.  Buy and read Rick Peters - Controlling Dust in the Workshop.    Check out the Oneida Air web site or Bill Pentz web site. 

   http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/

   
   

   ---

   Edited 1/16/2003 11:51:43 PM ET by rrwood

5. 
   rmcjh | Jan 17, 2003 04:23pm | #8

   Check Wood Magazine's forum on Dust Collectors.  There are several persons that regularly participate in very detailed explanations of how to set up a DC system.   Full explanations of pipe sizes and pressure drops are routinely discussed along with formulas you can use.  They also give some very pointed pro's and con's regarding different  mfg's equipment.

   You can plan on spending as much or more on the piping if it is a stationary DC system rather than a small portable unit that's connected to one machine at a time.  I plan on going to a cyclone system when I can afford it but until then I'll stay with my portable unit.

   One more thing, an air cleaner- filtering system is just as important for your health since no chip collector will clean the air sufficiently.

   Roger