Replies

1. 
   mitch | Apr 19, 2003 05:11pm | #1

   a lot of people will tell you that there is no real scientific difference in the performance of a motor on 220v as opposed to 110v, but my experience was exactly the same as yours.  it was like getting a new motor and saw!

   m

1. 
   stevemorris | Apr 19, 2003 05:43pm | #2

   there is no scientific reason for the difference, however in the real world its called line loss

   any electrical load will use the same wattage regardless of voltage however at 220 volts instead of 110, the appliance draws half the amperage

   half the amperage, results in half the line loss of voltage, therefore at 220 your saw is receiving closer to 220 than it would at 110

   i use a 110 table saw on a job site every day, one day decided to put a meter on the plug to measure voltage at the saw, under heavy load voltage dropped to 90 volts due to line losses

   line losses are due to resistance in the wires to the saw, so if you start with 220 volts and therefore half the amps then line loss is half of that at 110

   want to run a saw at 110? run a dedicated circuit using 15 a breaker, 12/2 wire and NO extension cords

2. 
   BrianMcG | Apr 19, 2003 10:36pm | #5

   Exactly. For whatever reason, the motor is at speed almost immeadiatly and maintains it under load. It's Grrrrrreat!

   Brian

2. 
   forestgirl | Apr 19, 2003 06:49pm | #3

   Brian, when I saw that title, I knew it must be you!  Liking all those amps, eh??  All that easy accessibility??  Color me green!  Hoping to get this done during the summer myself.

   Of course, now there's going to be one of those ad nauseum discussions about whether 220 does this, or that, or whatever.  Been there, read that 1000 times!!!!  Enjoy your great set-up. 

   With your saw configured to 220, and on a dedicated circuit, it's not having to compete for as many amps as it did before, the whole electrical system is much happier.  Enjoy!

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   mitch | Apr 19, 2003 07:13pm | #4

   for whatever reason, there is still a very noticeable difference in how motors run under load on 220v vs. 110v.  the most striking effect i've ever experienced was with the 5hp (probably peak), 30 gal, sears air compressor i switched over to the higher voltage.  on 110v it labored for as long as one or two (long, loud, annoying) minutes to reach shut off pressure- 125psi- at the end of its cycle.  on 220v, it zooms right up and shuts off sharply with no struggle at the top end whatsoever.  total recharge time up to 120psi or so was much faster, too.  both had dedicated breakers and outlets just a few feet from the panel, same cord length, same cord size, same everything except rewired per the nameplate diagram.  like i said before, like it had a new, much bigger, motor.

   m

3. 
   ToolDoc | Apr 19, 2003 11:03pm | #6

   Brian: That was a very smart move adding the 220 to your shop I have also just added 220 to my shop and am very glad i did cause now I can buy machines that work on 220 and not limited to 110/120..

1. 
   BrianMcG | Apr 20, 2003 08:10am | #7

   Thanks Doc, Ya, I'm very happy with it. Today I put in a couple eight foot high intensity shop lights. The 'ol shop's coming along nicely! Talk to you later, Brian

1. 
   Sancho | Apr 20, 2003 08:40am | #8

   Dag nabit now ya got me wanting to do it... 

   Darkworks:  Its all 'bout da squilla

1. 
   BrianMcG | Apr 20, 2003 08:48am | #9

   I swear you won't regret it. The saw conversion took 10 minutes and a buddy ran the dedicated line in about 2 hours for pizza and beverages. do it bro, do it!!!!!!

1. 
   RoyinMD | Apr 20, 2003 10:01am | #10

   Dang it! I feel like RonT too, I've been living in a detached garage, one underground 40 amp circuit, split into two 20 amp circuits, one for lights and dust collector and the other for general outlets. The DC, TS, shaper and disk/belt are all convertable to 220 (DOH!).

   Just because I didn't feel like spending a little cash and time and digging a stinking ditch. :o)

   Enjoy it Brian, Thats great!

   Enjoy, Rpy

2. 
   MajorWool | Apr 20, 2003 11:13am | #11

   Is that circuit run in conduit, which means new cable could be easily pulled? A 40A 120 circuit seems odd. Are you sure it isn't 20A of 220 run to the garage?

3. 
   RoyinMD | Apr 21, 2003 08:19pm | #20

   Hummm, now you got me thinking, and I'm not thinking too straight today :o), so I'll only answer with the facts I can remember, its been awhile since I rewired the entire garage (inside only, not the power run to it).

   I wish it was in conduit, its 10 gauge (2 conductor with ground, I think) direct buried cable from the 50 year old house to the 40 year old garage. Very poorly run as far as depth and service entrance(s) at both ends. I've been thinking a long time about replacing it but its hard to get motivated when it seems to work just fine. I have always wondered if all of a sudden I was going to be out of power.

   The house has a 40 amp breaker on that run. The garage had a disconnect switch box and one 45 amp slow blow cartridge fuse, 14 gauge BX cable leading to one 60 watt ceiling light fixture and one or two duplex outlets (no kidding, that was it). I replaced the entire box with two 20 amp breakers. One circuit for lights and one for general outlets and both circuits have GFI protection outlets as the first outlet on each run.

   I think/thought I was just splitting the 40 amp line into two 20 amp circuits.

   Am I in for a "lessons learned from the school of hard knocks".

   Enjoy, Roy

4. 
   MajorWool | Apr 22, 2003 11:40am | #22

   If it is 10Ga from the house, then the supply needs to be changed to a 30A breaker as 10 Ga is only rated for that. But do check as it might be 10/3 in which case the 220 issue is solved. It is fine even to split a 30A circuit into a couple of 20's as usually neither is fully utilized.

   My garage at one time was wired with (2) 20A circuits off a single run of 12-2, where the white and black were both hot and the bare ground wire was the neutral/ground. =8-O

   Prior to that, I can see evidence on the back wall of the house where it seems there was an aireal run of something to the garage based on the presence of 3 2" square holes about 8" apart.

5. 
   RoyinMD | Apr 22, 2003 08:11pm | #24

   Thanks Major,

   I checked the cable last night, its 10/3 and still not knowing for sure I was assuming that was hot, neutral and ground. Darn its been a long time since I wired the garage (12 years). I'll take a screwdriver to the box this weekend and see for myself. My shop is a wreck right now while in process of 1/2" drywalling the ceiling.

   I'd be in big trouble if I hadn't put so many things on casters.

   I've had no electric problems over the years. Trip a shop breaker once in a while if I jamb the table saw. I don't recall ever tripping the house breaker.

   Thanks again for getting me thinking, maybe I should pull out that code book more often. Doh.

   Enjoy, Roy

6. 
   forestgirl | Apr 20, 2003 08:04pm | #13

   Brian, I have 2 questions:

   How many amps is the run to your shop

   Would your buddy like to take a trip up north and visit the Puget Sound?  We have great pizza up here, and scads of micro-brews and such!!!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

7. 
   ToolDoc | Apr 20, 2003 11:29pm | #15

   Jamie : Wish I lived closer Buddy cause I would of volunteered to do the rewiring in your shop for free just cause your such a cutie..

                                                                               ToolDoc

8. 
   forestgirl | Apr 21, 2003 08:02am | #16

   You like mochas or lattes doc??  I'd at least treat you to a couple of those at Starbucks, LOL.  Could I really trust you getting that close to those two walnut slabs??  Hah!  Thought not.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

9. 
   ToolDoc | Apr 21, 2003 08:39am | #17

   Dear First Lady of the Forest: Oh my foiled again huh..<G>

10. 
    BrianMcG | Apr 21, 2003 08:52am | #18

    Hi Jamie/Sarge, will get back to you on the amps Q. He put in a couple new breakers, one of which was a 30 Amp. I will double check in the morning.

    Shop Fox huh? K..I'll take a look. (hope their at the show).

    Jamie, Really have the shop cleaned up! So much space now...guess I need some more tools! Will post a pic when...well you know. Brian

4. 
   bjpearce | Apr 20, 2003 12:08pm | #12

   :) well I live in Australia, and I'd just like to tell you all that our standard power system is 240v (10A).

   One day you'll catch up with us. LOL.  :)

   We also have 'Three phase' which is 415v, which is mostly industrial, but for a price they'll hook it up to your house. Do you have anything like that over there? (genuin question, not sarcasam).

   Ben.

1. 
   lukey | Apr 20, 2003 09:49pm | #14

   yeah the good old english we ave 240v guv.

   36 amp for m/c's, 15 amp lights, 15 amp for dust,air and heaters. Glad we don't suffer same as you guys.....

   Nothing like a bit of real power. Have 415 3 phase but don't use it. Line was in when we bought the place.

   all our 110 stuff yuk is for site work, health and safety spec.

   Rob

   Empire builders. Uk

5. 
   BrianF | Apr 21, 2003 06:13pm | #19

   Brian, I know exactly what you mean. When I moved out of the basement into the 28x30 addition behind my garage my electrician friend who helped me lay it out recommended a seperate 100amp service for the shop. I have 5 220 outlets (TS, DC, Comp., shaper, and one open for a larger planer in the future). We put wall outlets every 3 feet, each wall on it's own circut. Lights are their own circut. I pulled alot of wire, but am sooooo happy I did. You can never have enough power in a shop! Now if I only had made the shop twice as big.......

   Brian

1. 
   BrianMcG | Apr 22, 2003 08:33am | #21

   Hi Brian, That sounds great...One question. Maybe it's brain freeze but whats a "comp".? B.

   P.S. Good to see you spell your name correctly!!!! :)

1. 
   BrianF | Apr 22, 2003 03:35pm | #23

   That is my compressor, sorry it seemed like a good shortcut at the time

1. 
   BrianMcG | Apr 23, 2003 07:33am | #25

   Makes perfect sense. I shoulda picked up on it.