Replies

1. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Aug 12, 2006 08:26am | #1

   "what are my options? Can anybody guestimate the cost for a 220V to be installed? There is no seperate box for the garage and the main box is on the opposite side of the house. can i do this myself"?

   If you have to ask labatt, you probably shouldn't to it yourself IMO. You're going to need a 220v out there, but I would check to see if the current outlets in your new garage are also connected to the lighting there. If so, I would not only install a 220V but a separate 20A for outlets.

   I wouldn't want to be running a TS, BS, or any heavy amp pull on a 15V with the lights and my dust collector. You may want to have an electrician size it up to let you know if you need a separate 60A or 100A box in the garage. You may be OK just running lines straight from the main box. Depends on what you have running on the main and how often you have large draws (dryer, range, electric furnace, etc.) working simultaneously. A call can only be made after you evaluate your current electrical needs, what your current supply and usage consist of and your future potential usage.

   Regards...

   SARGE.. 

1. 
   labatt50 | Aug 12, 2006 05:24pm | #3

   Hey Sarge,

   Thanks for the reply. I ran my TS in the garage and the lights flickered at start up. In the house everytime the AC kicks on the dinning room light flicks once on start up. I will work on getting the other info. The only time i really run two pieces of equipment at the same time due to my DC (1.5HP, 120V).

1. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Aug 12, 2006 06:18pm | #4

   The DC pulls big amps also, even though wired for 120. I ran two 20 Amp lines in my shop, one down each side with receptacles every 5'. I always plug the DC in one line and the TS, jointer or BS in the other to avoid a trip. All these draw a large surge of power on start up as your AC, but will reduce drawn current after they get up to speed.

   I ran a 220V to the front of my shop where the TS, jointer and BS get used even thought I don't have anything rated for 220V. I did it several years ago so I don't have to back-track if I did up-grade to the larger motors.

   Probably a good thing, as I had a "dream" that a Mini-Max 16" BS was tip-toeing toward my shop after it was used for demo and left the show-room of the Georgia World Congress Center after the IWF in several weeks. ha.. ha...

   Gary gave some excellent advice also. Probably no need for a separate panel, but every case is unique as you should blend current and future to get an end result of your what your final solution should be for the long haul.

   Regards...

   SARGE..

2. 
   cadiddlehopper | Aug 13, 2006 04:49am | #6

   If lights are flickering, perhaps you would be wise to have your electrician check out your entire house wiring system.Cadiddlehopper

1. 
   BarryO | Aug 13, 2006 12:19pm | #7

   If lights are flickering, perhaps you would be wise to have your electrician check out your entire house wiring system.

   Maybe.  Depends on the size of the motor.  Single-phase motors draw alot of current on startup, and can cause flicker on any system.  Case in point:  my house and shop are one two separate, 200A services.  Yet when I turn on my 5 HP Unisaw in the shop, the house lights flicker.  The cause must be the Power Company's transformer, the only thing the house and shop have in common.  According to the Power Company, this is entirely normal with motors this size, and not anything they will fix.

1. 
   cadiddlehopper | Aug 13, 2006 07:19pm | #8

   At 5HP, I can understand a flicker. Is Labatt's saw 5HP? It also seems that you have checked out the problem. If he hasn't, he should do so. My largest motor is 3HP on my dust collector. My central air unit may be its equal. I can't remember ever seeing a light flicker when either of them crank up. I do suspect that your flicker is due to entrance wiring or the transformer, as you said, & you must live with it.Cadiddlehopper

2. 
   labatt50 | Aug 14, 2006 06:27am | #9

   here's some pic's. what do you think?

1. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Aug 14, 2006 08:46am | #11

   I think it's more important what's inside that closed door on the main box. Again.. it depends on what you currently have already set up and how many amps you might draw at one time currently. If you've got open space in the box and room for a 220V 30A breaker, you can probably go from the main with 10G wire to a shop 220V outlet.

   Even if there were only one space open, it could be done with an assist of a single piggy-back 220V 30A. BUT... it all depends on what draw you have simultaneously working and that's Why I feel you should get a Qualified Electrician to size it up and give you a Qualified Answer as to what it best in Your individual situation.

   DIY is great and saves money. But some things are better left to a professional or someone with at least a track record of having the know-ledge of one. Electricity is one of those things that falls into that category, IMO.

   Your family.. your home and your insurance company is counting on it! :>)

   Regards...

   SARGE..

     

1. 
   John_D | Aug 14, 2006 12:05pm | #12

   I agree that it's important to get it right, but if you want to spend time to save money you can definitely do it.

   I did most of my own shop rewire but hired an electrician to replace my panel.  I saved lots of $$ by researching and getting the permit and pre-inspection and plan review and pulling all the wire myself and pounding in my required new grounding conductors; the electrician ended up making all the actual connections even in the 220 outlets because there was time left on my budget (my boys and I had done all the unskilled gruntwork, including the drywall cutting and cleanup and patching).

   So I feel my house is VERY safe with an excellent new panel, plus my five 220v outlets and two 20A 110 circuits (six outlets each, GFCI protected).  Some of that stuff I figured out on my own by reading books to design my installation, but the inspector caught me on a couple things, which could have caused a problem had they not been reviewed and corrected prior to installation.

   So I agree 100% on consulting (at least) with an electrician, and suggest also doing the permitting/inspection process.  It helped me a lot.My goal is for my work to outlast me.  Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.

1. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Aug 14, 2006 05:45pm | #14

   Morning John..

   I agree as I also pull my own wire and set up the outlets for the two 20 A's and 220V in my shop.  I learned basics from our head of maintenance at the company I work for part time. He is also a certified electrician.

    Building his first born a baby crib not only gets questions answered but gets him over to give on the site advice. And I always let him make the final connection so it is certified for insurance purposes.

   But.. As GaryP pointed out, one look at those pics tells you this is existing older wiring and above my head as to why they did what they did? Therefore I will join Gary in the chorus of:

   Having a certified electrician consult as the current wiring may go beyond just installing a simple 220V and re-course back to the seller on correcting any hazards that may potentially already exist when the house was sold. 

   Again.. labott owes it to his family, himself and the fact that home-owners insurance may not cover out of code work.

   Regards...

   off to see the electrician and might even do some work while I'm there if the mood strikes me. :>) 

2. 
   garypc | Aug 12, 2006 10:53am | #2

   Assuming the jointer can't be rewired for 120V (does the name plate indicate a dual voltage rating?, some Grizzlys are dual voltage) probably all you need is a 20 or 30 amp circuit.  I just installed one for a 3hp Grizzly TS - Grizzly said a 20A 220V circuit was fine but at 18 full load amps the electrical code says 20A is too small so I put a 30A 2-pole breaker in the panel and ran 2#10 & 1#10 ground copper Romex about 80ft.  Total cost was about $150 including outlet, plug and breaker.  While I'm familiar with electrical systems as I engineer them for a living I don't normally install anything.  Without some familiarity I think it is best to hire an electrician.  I also added a dedicated 120V 20A circuit.  For this a load center or separate panel is unnecessary.  Even a 40A sub-panel costs quite a bit more mostly due to the cost of copper.  I would only install a 60A 220V sub-panel if I knew that two 220V 3hp motors plus a 120V 20A circuit would all be running at the same time.

    

   
   

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   Edited 8/12/2006 3:55 am by GaryPC

1. 
   labatt50 | Aug 14, 2006 06:28am | #10

   I posted some pic's, can you look at them?

1. 
   garypc | Aug 14, 2006 03:04pm | #13

   That's an old disconnect switch with the insides gutted out.  As it was a 3-pole switch and it is in a residence I wonder why a 2-pole switch wasn't used and if it was ever part of permitted work.  Either way it is now being used as a junction box.  This is against code as anyone looking at this would have the expectation that operating the handle would turn power off -even if it is clear to most people that that function is not working . 

   But hold on I see from the 2nd pic that there are one or more taps possibly of different wire sizes.  Generally using a disconnect switch -even one that worked -as a junction box is against code.  There are circumstances where this could be properly done and maybe this is one of them but it is just as likely that it is not per code and is unsafe in some way.  It might be a simple matter to replace with a junction box or an actual disconnect.  Which of these and how it would be done and at what cost would depend on what is on the end of each wire.  As dmohle suggests maybe there used to be a dryer located below?

   As you have just moved into the house you might want to contact your agent or check your buyers contract.  Perhaps the house was inspected and this somewhat obvious deficiency/code violation was missed.  There might be some recourse somewhere?  Or it might be a simple matter to fix that an electrician could advise you on.  If I were you I would have an electrician write up a quotation.

    

3. 
   dmohle | Aug 12, 2006 11:30pm | #5

   Hi, Labatt

   If you have an electric clothes dryer in your garage, that will have a 30A or 50A 220V circuit. You can unplug the dryer and make up a custom extension cord to connect to your jointer, just buy #10AWG heavy duty power cable 3 conductor (for 30A) or #8AWG (for 50A) and the appropriate plugs and socket. A big hardware or home center will have this stuff.

   This is the "cheap & cheerful" temporary or semi-permanent solution, figuring that neither the jointer nor the dryer get all that much continuous use.

   
   

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   Edited 8/12/2006 4:57 pm ET by dmohle