Replies

1. 
   nikkiwood | Feb 06, 2007 09:12am | #1

   I can highly recommend this one, by Cadex:

   http://www.floydtool.com/cp2335.htm

   Porter Cable and Senco make a 23 ga pinner; I bought the first, returned it, then bought the Senco which I subsequently gave away to a friend. With both, I had a terrible time with misfiring and countersinking the pins.

   Nikle is another very good brand, also sold by Floyd Tools.

   This issue comes up frequently at Breaktime, and I asked the guy who I bought the Cadex from for a run down of all the pinners. I can dig it out if you think it would be helpful to you.

   ********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

1. 
   gwsaltspring | Feb 07, 2007 04:52am | #3

   If you are willing to take the time I would appreciate further info.

   Greg

   BTW I am enjoying the floating mortise thread you started lots of good input.

1. 
   nikkiwood | Feb 07, 2007 07:56am | #6

   The simplest way would be to just reprint it here in the post. I had sent this guy an email, posing the numbered questions.****************************************************************************************November, 2006 EMAIL RESPONSE FROM FLOYD TOOL Hello;

   My name is Tom, my family owns Floyd Tool. I am familiar with the forums you mentioned. I am glad to answer your questions.

   3) Are the three guns copies of one another, and merely branded differently?

   The Cadex, Nikle, and Omer tools are entirely different tools. The Cadex and Nikle brands are owned and distributed by the same company.

   2) Where are each of the guns made?

   The Omer tools are made in Italy. The Nikle tools are made in Taiwan. The Cadex castings and other parts are made in Taiwan - the Cadex tools are assembled in various countries.

   1) It is rumored that one or all of these guns is made by Max; is that true?

   None of these tools are made by Max, although they may assemble the one they sell. The Max tool, the Cadex CP23.35, and a tool sold by Grex use the body castings and magazine assemblies from the same foundry in Taiwan. There are internal differences in the tools. The Cadex has been modified so that it can shoot 23 ga headless pins and also 23 ga slight headed brads (head shape is similar to an 18 ga "AY" brad).

   4) Or -- if they are different, is there a way you could briefly characterize the differences?

   The Omer tools (made in Italy) have dominated the 23 ga pinner market for many years. They have a reputation for high quality. The Omer tools are no longer the #1 choice, for many reasons. The factory has not kept up production of tools, fasteners, and spare parts (very frustrating for us). European exchange rates have risen in the past few years, increasing the cost of the products. The Omer 23 ga tools will only shoot up to 28mm (1-1/8"), and have a complicated magazine assembly where an adjustment needs to be made for different lengths of nails. They shoot pins only, no brads.

   The owner of the Nikle and Cadex brands engineers their tools to provide more features, good reliability, and affordability. They offer the only 23 ga tools that will shoot headless pins as well as slight headed brads. They offer the only 23 ga tools that shoot 2" fasteners. (we have the 2" 50mm pins on our site, will be adding the 2" brads this week). They also offer a wide range of pins and brads including stainless steel. Cadex and Nikle offer other tools including 21 ga pinners / brad nailers, 18 gauge bradders, narrow crown staplers, etc. Floyd Tool stocks all the Cadex and Nikle products on our website. We are adding new tools and fasteners on an ongoing basis.

   The Cadex and Nikle numbering system for tools uses the fastener gauge and maximum length in millimeters in the model #. The CP2335 is 23 ga, up to 35mm. The CPB2140 is 21 gauge, up to 40mm.

   Cadex tools that shoot both 23 ga pins and brads - CP2335 and CPB2350. The CPB2350 is a larger version of the CP2335. These tools offer the most features including a double trigger safety, exhaust muffler, removable plastic nose piece, swivel air fitting, belt hook, etc. The CPB2350 also features a thumb-operated "air duster" (built in blow gun). The balance and fit and finish make them a pleasure to use - as you know. An article in Journal of Light Construction by Gary Katz named the CP2335 as the best 23 ga pinner.

   Cadex tools that shoot 23 ga pins only - CP2330 and CP2350. These tools are more basic models. The CP2330 (up to 1-3/16") is an excellent alternative to the Senco and Porter Cable tools you mentioned. This tool has a lot of power for consistent drive. We have cabinet shops using these tools in production work with excellent results.

   Nikle tools that shoot both 23 ga pins and brads - NS2340 This tool was recently mentioned in Fine Woodworking. Shoots up to 40mm (1-9/16") Has the double trigger safety and is very slim and well balanced. Popular for crown molding work.

   Nikle 23 ga pins only - the NS2318 (3/8" - 3/4") is very compact, useful for pinning cabinet doors and installing glass in doors and windows. The NS2330 (up to 1-3/16") is an alternative to the Cadex CP2330 - good power, slim design.

   I appreciate your interest, and willingness to share this info. I know the Taunton forums are very popular. If you have any more questions feel free to write or call us. Thanks, Tom

   http://www.floydtool.com/ TEL: 1-800-882-7060********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

1. 
   nikkiwood | Feb 07, 2007 05:46pm | #7

   Can you read this email from the Floyd guy?On my screen it runs out of the frame, which makes it difficult to read. If that's the case for you, let me know, and I will do it again as an attachment.********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

1. 
   gwsaltspring | Feb 07, 2007 07:08pm | #8

   Yes thanks. On my small laptop is is a bit harder than on the full sized monitor.

   I am still digesting the info and forwarded it to Doug for his input.

   Greg

2. 
   brewdog | Feb 08, 2007 01:41am | #12

   You want a gun that will shoot the headless and slight headed brads. The slight headed brads have many times the holding power of the headless with only a marginally bigger hole. I actually can't tell the difference but then I have old eyes. I got the cadex CP2335 and love the gun. I've had it over a year now and the got it from "Floyd's..". The owner's son is very informative, patient, and not pushy. The cadex quality for the 1 3/8 gun is very high. It is a pleasure to use and I can highly recommend the gun the company.
   Gary

3. 
   PeterDurand | Feb 08, 2007 02:13am | #14

   I just went to their web site and that model looks fine indeed. I have felt frustrated by the 1" limitation of the senco and so will probably be purchasing that one. Thanks again.Cheers,Peter 

4. 
   PeterDurand | Feb 16, 2007 11:29pm | #23

   Well, I did end up buying the CPB23.35 from Floyd tool. And I love it. A lot better than the Senco, in my opinion.Thanks for the recommendation.Cheers,Peter 

2. 
   Marion | Feb 06, 2007 05:13pm | #2

   I like my grex.

3. 
   RonInOttawa | Feb 07, 2007 07:13am | #4

   I have the Senco and have had absolutely no problems thus far.

1. 
   nikkiwood | Feb 07, 2007 07:47am | #5

   Your Senco is countersinking the pins?********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

1. 
   PeterDurand | Feb 08, 2007 01:08am | #10

   I also have the Senco and am pleased with it. Adjusting the pressure for various types and thicknesses of woods gives me the result I want. My only peeve is that it only holds up to 1" pins. There have been times when 1 1/8 would have been better for me.Cheers,Peter 

1. 
   nikkiwood | Feb 08, 2007 01:20am | #11

   And this Senco will countersink your pins?********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

1. 
   PeterDurand | Feb 08, 2007 02:09am | #13

   Give it enough pressure and it drive pins right through a thin molding strip. I don't think that is what you are after.I simply take a few scraps of the item to be tacked along with scraps of the base you are using and test a few pins at different air pressures. I want the pin sunk just below the surface, not a deep hole. It usually only takes about 2-4 shots to get it just right. Hope this helps.Cheers,Peter 

2. 
   gwsaltspring | Feb 08, 2007 02:28am | #15

   I am wondering about  the overlap between the 23 and 18 ga nailers. IE doesn't make a lot of sense to me to go to 2"/ 23 ga brads/pins. What is the longest  23ga brads/pins you use consistently? Or when do YOU like to step up to 18 ga?

   Greg

3. 
   ring | Feb 08, 2007 04:26pm | #18

   Greg,The difference for me between 23 ga. and 18 ga. is huge. In most cases, the 23 ga headless pin does not need any cosmetics. It's small enough to be invisible in most projects. The 18 ga. always needs to be hidden IMHO.Also, for me, a 1" pin is not long enough. I've used 1 3/8" pins (23 ga) to attach sheets of 1/2" thick MDF to walls and overhead to ceilings. A shorter pin just won't hold those heavy sheets. I also use the long pins to stick 3/4" thick pieces in all sorts of situations.BTW, the Cadex guns are great. I have 2 of 'em.David Ring

   http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e

4. 
   gwsaltspring | Feb 09, 2007 04:29am | #22

   Thanks Dave that was the kind of reply I was hoping for. Makes perfect sense.

   Cheers Greg

5. 
   nikkiwood | Feb 08, 2007 02:47am | #16

   Like I said earlier, I gave up on the Senco when it would not countersink. I even called Senco, and one of their tech reps said, "well, it wasn't designed to countersink."After that conversation, I gave it away and bought a Cadex. This all happened about a year and half ago, and I wonder if they have improved the gun since then. Did you buy yours within that time?********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

6. 
   PeterDurand | Feb 08, 2007 04:03am | #17

   I have had mine for a few years now. As I said earlier, I adjust the pressure to give me the amount of penetration I want. Having said that I am looking forward to the Cadex. Just ordered it.Cheers,Peter 

7. 
   mvflaim | Feb 08, 2007 05:22pm | #19

   Senco's pinner has improved. A newer version came out about six months ago that eliminated the problems the older pinner had. It's also now equipped with a saftey above the trigger. If you have the older version and it does not counter sink properly, replacing the piston/driver assembly (B06001291) and the sleeve retainer (A03050251) will increase counter sink performance on existing tools. In the coming weeks Senco will release their newest pinner that will shoot pins from 1-2" in length.

    

   Edited 2/8/2007 9:53 am ET by mvflaim

   Edited 2/8/2007 9:55 am ET by mvflaim

8. 
   nikkiwood | Feb 08, 2007 06:03pm | #20

   I see that you are selling Senco tools, so I am glad to have this info. Nonetheless, I'm sure you can understand my consternation with the original pinner. Filing the nose piece was a fix suggested by users in other forums, but it is interesting that it was never suggested to me in the one conversation I had with the Senco tech rep. In any case I was irritated that a brand new tool would have to be modified in order to work properly, since there are some applications where countersinking is just plain necessary. I wasn't willing to mess with it, so I just bit the bullet and bought a Cadex. However, I mentioned the fix to the friend to whom I gave the gun, and that's exactly what he did. He tells me it took about an hour and a half of fiddling to get it just right.********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

9. 
   mvflaim | Feb 08, 2007 06:21pm | #21

    I agree with you that tinkering around with a brand new tool out of the box is ridiculous to do. Fortunately the problem has been resolved.

   Mike

    

   Edited 2/8/2007 10:26 am ET by mvflaim

4. 
   YesMaam27577 | Feb 07, 2007 11:59pm | #9

   I have the Senco -- the price was right a couple of years ago. I think of it as a "non-optimum" tool. It has some tendencies that could be improved -- very little safety in its design, no ability to countersink the pins, its cantakerous to change pin lengths..........

   But I still use it. A lot. And when I think about life without it, I get the shakes.

   So if you 've only got a little bit of money, get the Senco. But if you can afford the best, get something else.

    

    

   Unless you're the lead dog, the view just never changes.