23 Guage Pinners — countersinking
nikkiwood
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
I was about to buy a Senco pinner today, and called their tech service line with a question.
Within the conversation he happened to mention — ”you know, don’t you, this pinner does not countersink the nail?”
Well, I didn’t know that. Apparently, the thinking is these 23 ga nails are small enough, and sufficiently invisible that they don’t need to be filled.
So, my 2 questions:
1) Do any of the 23 ga pinners countersink the nail enough so you can fill the hole with putty or wood filler?
2) Or do you not bother filling the hole?
Thanks.
Replies
Both. Sorry for the smart a$$ response, but if the wood is very hard, the pin will set nearly flush with the surface (almost always invisible). If the wood is soft, the pin will set further into the stock but the wood fibers may be broken requiring the smallest amounts of wood filler/putty.
Senco is an excellent gun. I have a PC pinner and find I need to step the air pressure from a normal 85-95 PSI to over 110 PSI to get a good set to the pins.
_________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
Yo, to Nikkiwood from Philadelphia!
I had this discussion on Knots a while back. It seems that most 23 ga. pinners are not reliable in setting the pin.
After several false starts, I wound up with the Omer 23 ga. pinner. It set me back $250, but it definitely does the job. Drives longer pins than most (1 1/8", I think) and always sets the pin even when nailing at an angle.
If using a natural finish on the wood (varnish, lacquer, etc) the pin holes tend to disappear. I do not fill them.
The pins I bought from Omer hold incredibly well.
Fingrs
Never heard of that brand (Omer). Nor have i seen it in any of the catalogs.Where did you get it? Do they have a web site?
Do a Google on "Omer 23 ga pinner". I don't remember who I bought mine from but that's how I found a dealer.
Omer is an Italian company that makes really good stuff. I am totally impressed with my gun. All my others are PC but theOmer has a feel unlike any others. Send me an email if you can't find a source and I'll steer you.
Best, Fingrs
Found it:
Nailzone.com
I bought my gun from them and it arrived quickly and in good shape (very well packed). Nice folks.
The Omer sounds like a great gun, but......Aren't you a little skittish about buying a tool that needs periodic servicing -- that has not established a network of service centers?
Omer is also "Cadex". Cadex has ads in FWW. I recently bought the new 23 guage pinner, shoots brads from 1/2" to 1-3/8", sets all below the surface with no problems. Omer/Cadex has been in business since '96. They are based in B.C. Canada. Call and order direct from Jamie.
Jamie and company have in fact been talking with senco about Omer making all of senco nails. Very high quality.
Bill
I am surprised to hear that Omer and Cadex are the same gun. I thought that Omer was Italian, and Cadex was Canadien made. Learn something every day. I do note that the price is quite different.Without meaning to be insulting, I wonder if you could share your source of information as to the fact that the Omer and Cadex are the same tool, selling under different names. I am in the market for a new 23 ga. pinner as I had a Senco, did not like it, and sold it.I also know that Grex makes a 23 ga. pinner, which at least one fellow likes, but I have never seen one. It too is a bit less than the $250 that the Omer seems to sell for.Thanks.
Alan
http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com
Alan,
No insult taken.....When I called the cadex number from the FWW ad, the person answered the phone "Omer"!
The packages I recieved for the cadex also had the return/shipper name of "Omer Direct" in B.C.
I forget now what I paid the the 23 guage cadex, but it was less than the omer. I will look at my invoice when I go back to the shop!I looked at Senco for awhile, but in the end chose Cadex because of the range of brads (1/2"- 1-3/8")and candor of Jamie at Omer/Cadex.
When asked about working all kinks out yet, he said "I don't know, let us know when you start working with it". This certainly could be taken either way, good or bad, but Jamie was honest.When I emailed and called Senco I felt like I was getting a "sales" spin. Honest info but yet still a little slick.Jamie at Omer also stated that Senco makes both hobbyist gun and pro-guns, but the buyer has no idea which is which when looking at big box stores or through the internet. I have used the cadex 23 guage for installing crown mold and for installing 1/4" wooden glass retaining strips, very clean shooting, no bouncing(very important nailing close to glass), sets nails perfectly, nail hole very small and no need for filling. One customer stated , "oh i thought those nail holes were like freckles in the wood". I highly reccomend this nailer. It is not an oil-less gun, one drop a day does it!Cadex sells two (or more) of the 23 guage nailers... one that shoots between 1/2" & 1-1/8"... the other as mentioned up to 1-3/8". Be sure to specify.There is another company advertising in FWW, I think in Florida, that sells a 23 guage pinner, but I don't remember who that is now.I may have gotten off on a tangent or not fully answered you questions, if so let me know. I'll check on the cost and let you know soon.Take care
Bill
Great info. How long have you had your Cadex? Thanks for the post. WW Forums are especially helpful on an issue such as this one.
Alan
http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com
Alan,
I have only had my cadex for a couple months, far from extensive testing over the long term, but absolutely fabulous over the short term. Glad my postings have been helpful.Here's the address and order info and cost of Cadex. While being more expensive than other brands, I believe the cadex is worth the cost.Omer Direct
3605 Commercial St,
Vancouver, BC V5N4G1 Canada
1-604-876-9909
http://www.omertools.com
http://www.cadextools.comCadex 23 guage pinnner --- CP23.35 12mm-35mm(1/2"-1-3/8") = $229.00
06/12-4m--- box 4000 12mm(1/2") brads = 8.80
06/25-4m--- box 4000 25mm(1") brads = 13.20
06/35 ---bx 20,000 35mm(1-3/8") brads= 68.40I also at the same time purchased an 18 guage nailer BN 1850 ---18 guage up to 50mm(2") =$ 101.05
18/50 ---bx 5000 50mm(2") = 11.40All these prices includes shipping to the U.S.These guys are more than helpful over the phone, call them up with any questions you might have that I might not have answered.Take care
Bill
Bill
Thanks for that info about Cadex and Omar.
I thought I saw that Omar made a 21g nailer as well.
I have been considering buying one or the other, didn't know that I was looking at the same thing!
I don't like the Senco, its the same thing as the Accuset, different paint is all. The PC is aggravating.
I had one of the old Senco 23g, great gun, just cant take a 12' header off a ladder onto concrete. They don't make that model anymore, probably because of their inability to take the header, lol.
EDIT; just to add a bit more confusion to the mix I found another 23g pinner add in FWW, pg 101, issue 175.
Trident Associates Company, the add says that it shoots up to 1 9/16ths. No web site but if your down in Jacksonville, FL for the superbowl they are located there.
Doug
Edited 1/20/2005 11:01 pm ET by Doug@es
Bill
I just got off the phone with Jamie from Omer/Cadex.
I ordered the Cadex gun for several reasons, first being that you don't use that slide mechanism for different size nails like you do with the Omer and Senco.
As you said Jamie was very helpful, he mentioned that Omer pinners have a problem with their drive. They wear out to fast and at the cost of replacement around $30+ it seemed the better choice was the Cadex.
I like the idea that the Cadex can shot a 1 3/16" nail, sometimes the 1" that the senco shoots just doesn't seem like enough.
To clear up a bit of confusion, don't know who it was that mentioned it.
The Omer and Cadex guns are two entirely different manufacturers, they are handled by the same distributor, that being Omer.
Thanks for the info that you gave.
Doug
Doug, congrats on your purchases. Glad Jamie was also helpful to you.When I called regarding the cadex I didn't even ask about the Omer, so wasn't aware of the problem areas with the Omer or the fact of being different manufactures, but good info to know, thanks.I am surprised that you didn't purchase the 23 guage that shoots up to 1-3/8" vs the 1-3/16". That extra 3/16" pays off from having to switch to another gun, but keeps the same pin hole. Maybe they were out of them?Congrats again, I'm sure you will be pleased.
Bill
Bill I was going off there web site and all they mention is the 23g 1 3/16" gun.
I called Jamie back and he told me that the 1 3/8" was a new model, not on the web site yet. I think its around $250, where as the one I ordered is $170 + -
So now the dilemma, what to do........
Thanks for the info.
Doug
Doug,
I paid $229 I believe. The decisions are always hard, "an extra $60 bucks!!!" but I am glad I did, the range from 1/2" to 1-3/8" is great.Also, Jamie only stocks (so far) the 1-3/8" brads in boxes of 20,000 versus boxes of 4,000 for the shorter brads; be prepared to pay around $65 for that box of 20,000.Good luck with your choice, I'm sure you will be happy either way.
Bill
Since I'm the only sucker that bought the 23 ga Omer, I guess I'll just sit back and wait for it to fail. I only use it occasionally, so maybe its failure will occur beyond my own.
Good info on the Cadex. I have the 18ga PC nailer that drives up to 1 1/4" brads; it's been a workhorse but I'd like to upgrade to 2". So: PC or Cadex?
fingrs
From what the guy at Omer/Cadex says, the Omer is still a great gun, way above average.
The problem that happens with the Omer, and it sounds preventable, is the driver goes bad due to people not changing the slide mechanism when they change nail size.
If you do that religiously than your probably OK. The guy at Omer said that the no. of drivers sold represents about 10% of the sales of the guns.
Seems high but it does sound like you can avoid the problem, or at least reduce your odds that it will happen to you.
He also mentioned that Omer was going to redesign their 23g gun for next year.
Doug
Thank you, Doug. I am very conscientious about changing the setting when changing nails. I am also diligent about adding oil. Maybe this will protect me from premature gun failures.
The Omer is a great tool...very well made and a pleasure to use. And it performs beautifully.
Fingrs
Thanks for all your responses.After a lot of vacillating, I decided to buy the Senco (Finish Pro 10, not the Accuset).I did so in part because there seems to be a lot of dissatisfaction with the PC, and as I mentioned earlier in this thread, with the PC, the driver left a divot next to the pin -- no matter how little pressure I applied to the gun. My instincts tell me it may have been a mistake to not buy the Omer/Cadex, but it is twice the cost ($250), and I was nervous about buying a tool (particularly one that needs periodic tending) where local service is not available. Finally, this will not be one of the bread and butter tools in my arsenal, so I am going to cross my fingers and hope for the best.
I've got the PC pinner and haven't had the greatest success with it. It seems to leave the pin protruding 50 % of the time.
I posted this problem about six months ago and the responses seem to conclude that it's a failure with the driving pin after some use.( It didn't happen at all the first year or so although it saw very limited use.)
That post also brought out some good reccommendations for the SENCO.
All in all stay away from the PC.
Good luck.
I had the chance to try a PC, and it countersunk the nails -- but also left a divot from the driver next to the nail. And this came when using hard maple, and also occurred no matter how much pressure I exerted on the gun.Has that been a problem for you?At least the Senco drove the nail without a divot.Wear on the drive piston must be a problem with these pinners, since Senco packages an extra drive piston in the case with their model. But of course, they do not mention this in the manual, and have no instructions on how to install it, or for that matter, when it is advisable to put the new one in the gun.I'm beginning to think that expensive Omer may not be such a bad deal after all.......
Have a senco accuset that I purchased at woodcraft during a clearence sale, works great, never had to set any nails.
Troy
Actually no, that hasn't really been a problem at all for me, most of the wood I've used it with is either maple,cherry,oak or ash. Never really push the gun tip into the wood either.
All in all I just don't get the perfrmance out of it I need.
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