All,
I got a call last night from #1 daughter, the teacher, who is going to visit in a month and would like me to make her something for her classroom. She wants a cabinet that has 25 cubby holes that each measure 6″hx9″wx18″d so each of her students(3rd graders) has their own spot for their box of stuff (crayons, majic markers, etc.). She would like two doors on the cabinet and ainted royal blue.
She has space constraints. The first is her car to transport this thing and second is the classroom…she would like to stay as close to 45″x30″x18″ as she can.
I immediately start thinking a shaker design..kinda.. and maybe I could make something that can be broken down for transport and reassembeld easily with a coupla(10-12) screws.
I also started to think abot the vertical dividers and how strong do they really need to be….maybe hardboard would be sufficient.
There was a bookcase design about a year ago in FWW what had the verticals and horizontals kinda lap jointed, cutting out half the material an dadoing the the other half.
I also started to think about nest of drawers..and isn’t tis the same without the draws?
Anyhow, she is going to go back and look at the space issues, especially the 18″ deep and we’ll talk again today.
Does anyone have any thoughts or plans or experience..or a place to hide next month…help…lol
Replies
I would think you could make it in two parts, assembled with dowels for alignment and hardware for strength. You might want to check out some of the knockdown hardware that's available.
Most of the youngsters I see going to and from school, even the little guys and gals, are carrying backpacks these days. Hardboard dividers may not hold up to the pressure that a stuffed backpack launched by a 6-year-old might generate.
The joinery you mention makes sense and seems time-friendly.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG,
Taking a look at the knockdown furnitiure is a good idea...may get some pointers. I've never used dowels before, another good idea for alignment.
I'm not sure if the hardboard is strong enough either, thinking more from a minimize size thing, however, these cubbies will hold in school stuff, no backpacks. One of the corcerns I have is the 18" deep...lots of stuff can get lost in there...and hard to see kinda..dark. thanks
BG, even as an adult I really dislike cabinets or shelves that are more than 12" or 14" deep. Anything toward the back is hard to see, hard to find and hard to get out! Any idea why she specified 18"??forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG,
Dunno, can't imagine the kids would have boxes that big just to hold caryons and majic markers, etc...but maybe they issue 18" rulers..(nice sword if they do)..lol On the other hand, her mom insisted on a lateral draw file that 30" high, 29" long and 20" deep. The first thing she said was "Wow, that is big...how come you didn't stick with my measurements" Luckily i had the tape measure with me. So it may run in the genes...lol
The 18" depth of those cubbies seems a bit much for crayons and pencils and papers. I guess if their little arms are long and very skinny they'll be all right, but it seems like a potential crayon trap.
The idea is very good - similar to a set up we have at work. The building 'guy' made us cubbies that are about 12" deep - just long enough to get paper in.
ehBeth,
She has just finished her third year teaching. She is constantly comming up with new ideas for enhancing learning, organizing her classroom and creating opportunities for complimenting the children. She comes from a long lineage of teachers going back to Great Grandmothers on both sides. My mother never let a child leave her classroom without knowing at least 4 Irish songs...lol. Last week classes ended for my daughter...several of her students cried. Do I sound too proud?
BG - too proud of a daughter? Nooooooooooooo! Rightly proud <smile>.
If you can't play a sport, be one.
BG -
By using a slot joint for the vertical and horizontal pieces of this unit, it can be broken down and transported flat (each piece is separate), and can be reassembled without having to use a single tool. If the joints are tight, the finished unit will be nice and ridged. I'd recommend using 1/2" birch plywood rounding off all of the edges. I've enclosed a rough layout of what I'm describing. To finish the piece off, and to prevent papers and crayons from rolling out the back, a 1/4" piece of plywood can be nailed onto the back - which will also increase the structural rigidity.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask!
Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
Thanks Dan,
I was going to post exactly the same - was my initial thought as well.
eddie
Great minds think alike!Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
Yeah, that eggcrate design is what came to my mind too. There is an additional trick for it that makes it stronger, and I hope I can explain in text.
Consider the joint between a shelf and a wall. The simplest way to make the joint is to cut a slot halfway through the shelf, and a mating slot halfway through the wall. They slide together to form the eggcrate. A difficulty with this simple joint is that the shelf is fully supported for only half of its depth. It can warp and flap in the breeze. An improved version of the joint is to run each slot halfway across the plywood, as in the simple version. However, you also add dados on both sides of the wall, in line with the slot. The dados capture the previously-unsupported half of the shelf.
I'll post a sketch -- I hope.
Edited 5/24/2003 11:54:39 PM ET by JAMIE_BUXTON
Here's a sketch of the improved joint.
Jackie, Eddie and Jamie,
Not such great minds thought of that design also....lol. I alluded to the knockdown bookcase/wall unit that FWW had last year and that is the way they did it.
Now the tough part ! Assuming I use the 1/2" birch ply...
1. 1/8" dado on both sides? and, for half the board where all the stock would be removed...suggestions on how to remove it..is the dado blade too dangerous...should I use a router or chisels?
2. Would you put a hardwood edge on the ply (thinking slivers and appearance), if so, how deep or would you just use the tape stuff?
3. If I rabbit in a backboard and use screws that will certainly help. However, I don't think I can hang the doors off of 1/2 birch ply...they are going to be rather large....any suggestions?
4. I think I need to get this off the ground..some kinda shallow base... any suggestions or thoughts?
thanks so much
Edited 5/25/2003 5:26:23 AM ET by BG
BG -- Some replies/opinions...
1) A 1/8" dado would work. If you can manage tighter accuracy, 3/32" would still provide enough purchase for the shelf, and would leave more meat on the wall. For the slot, I'd probably use a dado blade. However, if you'd rather use a router, that would work too.
There's little structual drawback to making the slots a little longer than they need to be. That is, there's no big problem with the fact that a dado set won't make a square-ended cut. However, if you just want a square-ended slot, you can stop the dado short and square the end with a hand chisel.
2) Me, I'd leave the edge of the baltic birch plywood visible. I wouldn't do that with conventional plywood, but it looks okay with baltic birch. (As to the tape edging, I found that it is too easy to peel off, so I only use solid lumber for edging -- 1/8" thick is fine.)
3) I'm not sure how you'd rabbet a back into this structure. One of the nice things about this design is that all the pieces are the same depth. To make a rabbet, some of the pieces must be narrower and some longer. I'd just screw the back on to the rear of a few of the walls or shelves. Come to think of it, I'd screw it to the rear of whichever element (the shelves or the walls) slides in from the front. That way, the kids can't pull them out.
I know you have doors in your mind, but me, I'd leave them out of the design. You're going to have 25 kids in and out of these cubbies every day. Are they all going to remember to close the doors? These big doors also offer fine opportunity for kids to accidentally whack each other. They also might get climbed on, and/or ripped off. My experience with hoards of kids is that strength is much more important than esthetics.
4) One way to get the cubbies off the ground is to continue the eggcrate design approach. Extend the vertical pieces so they're "legs" that set the actual cubbies up in the air.
Jamie,
All good thoughts and lots to ponder.
I'm thinking she wants doors to keep things neat...but I'll challange the thought very carefully. If she does think she has to have doors, I'll use the wrap around piano hinge....and use 3/4 ply on the perimenter all the way around.
I like the idea of extending the ply for feet...I'd also like to put a trim around that ply to enhance stability...not sure she has the space
thanks
Edited 5/25/2003 3:51:42 PM ET by BG
Dan,
I've noticed before how effective your drawing software seems to be. Do you mind letting us know what you're using, as well as any salient pros and cons?
Thanks,
Paul
Paul,
For my posting on Knots, I draw mostly freehand using the Microsoft Paint program that comes as part of the Windows package. I do have a series of designing programs (e.g. CAD, CATIA V5, etc), but use the Paint program as it allows for the easiest downloads for the majority of readers.
The only downside is the overlaying of one picture element over another. Pieces seem to have a halo surrounding them, which tends to block more of the section being covered than is desired.
Please feel free to send along any questions you may have! Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
Dan,
Thanks for your prompt response.
The reason I asked is because your drawings are always easy to read and understand.
I'm looking for a simple (as simple a 3D Home Architect?) program I can use to design chairs, cabinets, etc. Something to use, for client presentations & on-the-fly revisions. I'd also like to be able to prepare dimensioned drawings showing details of joints with precise angles, etc. for my own use.
Thanks,Paul
Paul,
There are a few design programs that are both user friendly (objects are easily created and customized/modified), and offer some of the precision you are looking for (e.g. joint design, dimensional drawings). What type of computer would you be using? (i.e. RAM, GHz, etc...) Even though some of these programs are easily used, the require fairly powerful hardware, which includes certain video cards.
Let me know what you'll be using, and I'll try and recommend the best program for what you've got.
Regarding joint designing - if you don't already know this trick, give it a try... after you've designed the component of a joint, flip the image on the screen to its mirror image, then print a copy of it to full size scale. Lay the print out face down on your wood stock, and iron the back of the paper using a standard household iron set on Cotton. After a couple of passes, slowly lift the paper, and you will have a perfectly reproduced image on the wood. Now work the wood using the outline!Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
Hi Dan,
While the subject of computer programs for design seems to have come up I'd like to ask you (or anyone else for that matter) a question. I have been using AutoCad for a number of years from r12 through 2000. I turn to it immediately when the desire to design some project comes upon me. There is a problem though (unless I've missed something in the plotting setup within the program). I do not own a plotter so what I print is necessarily shrunk to fit 8.5 x 11 paper and the pattern must be then be exploded and transfered by hand to the wood with the inherent errors. I could perhaps zoom into sections and print those but there would be errors in overlap. The ideal would be to find a program that will print spanning pages of the pattern in full scale. Do you know of a program that will do this? And, if so, will it be compatible with my existing dwf or dwg files? Hardware requirements to run the software won't be a problem (I own a computer shop).
ThanksKen
Ken,
A completely non-computer based solution to enlarging your shrunk 8.5" x 11" image would be to use a pantograph. (see picture)
View Image
The one pictured will allow an image to be increased up to 10 times its size, or reduced to 1/10th its size. It does work, but can be more time consuming. (Tip: to make a precise straight line on a pantograph, lay a straight edge on the original to guide the stylus.)
To correct the printing problem with AutoCad, set your Page Scale to 1/12 - this will make one foot on the drawing equal to 12" of paper. (If your design is in inches set the Page Scale to inches not feet.) With this setting, you'll be able to print a maximum of 100 pages (the equivalent of 10 pages x 10 pages). If you need to change X and Y coordinates, change them at the bottom of the Layout tab on the Print Drawing dialog box.
Something that may also help, would be to download the latest software update for your particular program/system. This is almost always free on the manufacturer's web site.
I hope that helps!Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
Thanks for the ideas Dan ... I think you may have hit the nail on the head. I'll give it a try when I have a few moments.
4DThinker ... I appreciate the suggestion. The problem I have is that I live in a rather small community and the nearest printer with plotting capability is about 50 miles one way. One of my customers is an architectural firm and I've considered asking them if they would be so kind as to plot my drawings. It's just that it would be much more convenient if I could simply do it myself and they are still 20 miles away. Dan's suggestion might do the trick though.
Thank you all for your input.
Ken
Dan,
I just got a chance to look into your suggestion but cannot find how to set Page Scale anywhere. And it's not listed in the help section (AutoCad 2000). In the printing dialog box I can set a custom size but it still will only print 1 page.
ThanksKen
Ken,
My students often get large ACAD drawings for their furniture projects plotted at Kinkos. The simply take the file with them to the store. Other copy centers may offer plotting services.
One caution, though... Put a scale reference on each drawing. Then check it on the plot before assuming it is accurate. Some Xerox enlarging processes won't make true 100% copies. And all papers except maybe mylar can expand or shrink with changes in humidity. I had a job at a sign company once where we used large plots or copy enlargements as graphic patterns for signs, and we eventually had to create a humidity/expansion % calculator to make sure the plots or prints we ordered ended up exactly the size we needed. For example it humidity was going to "grow" our copies 2% between the copy center and the office, we would print them at 98.04% instead of the 100% one would assume.
4DThinker
Here's an "out of the box" alternative:
Don't make one big box with 25 spaces divided in it. Make 25 small boxes, then come up with a clever way to lock them together. Maybe they slide 5-high down onto a 4-post stand you've made, filling the spaces between and beside posts.
Yes, it may require more material. But individual boxes could be rotated and stacked up in several configurations, and possibly in more than one stack. They might even be composed into a 3D structure with access from two or more sides to stand in the middle of a room if needs change.
Or maybe there is some ready-made box out there close to the desired dimensions that you could assemble into a 25-unit array.
Just to provoke you a bit.
Yes, this is 4D Thinking
Edited 5/28/2003 1:01:32 AM ET by 4DTHINKER
4D,
Very clever !....multi-colored cubbies that could be re-arranged into various configs. I'm picturing swivel heads attched to the base of the cubbie and the swivel slides onto a post which is jointed and can also swivel. The five posts are connected to a larger post which swivels. You do realize your talking to a guy who just broke off a screw into a brand new draw front that he was installing for a pull knob...not Sam Maloof....lol.
Of course, we have all wondered what to do with those little plastic table like things that come with the pizza to keep the cardboard from the cheese. Wouldn't they make great connectors for the cubbies?
Great ideas, this is fun, thanks
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