Hi,
I stumbled upon an older green PM tablesaw today for $850 but it’s 3 phase and I’m in a residential area with single phase. I guessed it’s a 66 but have done a little research and there were 65’s and 71’s….etc.. Knowing it wouldn’t work as-is I didn’t have the owner fetch it down. (it was up on a shelf on a pallett..need fork lift and lot’s of stuff to move to get at it) But from my vantage looked cherry as owner said it was.
It had an older tubular fence like I’d seen on Deltas way back when, but I’ve no experience with green PM’s. This is the semi metallic looking green with the racing stripe abound the base.
Owner had no clue about swapping motors or using converter which I’ve read here is complicated and not the best solution.
Does that sound like a good price?
Where would I find a motor to fit?
thanks,
Bro. LukeBro.Luke
Edited 1/27/2007 9:47 pm by BroLuke
Replies
You don't give enough info in my experience such as horse power but based on 30 years of experience a VDF from http://www.factorymation.com would be my choice. Cheaper than changing a motor and gives full power. Personally I couldn't stand the old jetlock type fence. With a Biesemeyer guys can easliy do an extra kitchen a week. Used to work as a tech for a dealer. So add another $350 to upgrade the fence.
I'd much prefer a slider. Cabinet saw is only half a saw in my experience. With a jetlock it's even less a saw. There's lots of other options that are better deals.
Powermatic switched to the gold coloration in the late 70's so you have a thirty year old saw. Switching the motor is easy as all you need is a 145C flange motor. My green PM66 had a 3HP Baldor and I think you can order one fromWMH parts probably 3-400$ or try to find one one the open market. Just bolt it to the cast iron flange that the 3HP 3PH was bolted to. I switched out that worthless fence when Biesmeyer still owned the company. ($350) $100 for an extension table brings you up $ 1,700 give or take a 100$. You do the math! I think you can get a new PM2000 for about $2,100 and it has a riving knife. You would not believe the difference that makes. I have one on my Laguna TS and I love it. I think Grizzly has one on a new saw also. I think they should be mandatory on all new saws.
I wouldn't trade my #66's old cast iron fence for a boat load of Biesmeyer fences. We had two #66 saws side-by-side in the shop for a while. One had the Biesmeyer type fence and the other the old cast iron fence on round rails. The Biesmeyer type ended up being used for rough work and the cast iron fence for joinery and more accurate work. Should anyone want to sell their old cast iron fence, even a broken one with the fine adjustment gear in good shape, let me know. I'm sure my partner would trade his newer Powermatic Biesmeyer style fence for an old cast iron one in a heart-beat.
One man's pleasure is another man's poison. I had to measure my cast iron fence every time to see if it was parallel to the blade. When I did'nt one time when I was ripping something quick, it bound, kick backed and took some of my thumb with it. That is when I heard about this guy in AZ that invented a new style fence for tablesaws. The serial number on my fence is very low so I think I have one of the early production runs. Don't you find it odd that everbody and his brother has copied that design and nobody makes a fence like the old PM. Powermatic even bought Biesmeyers from Jim and put them on there saws in the 80's. They had him paint them gold and leave the name off. We have one of those saws at school in or woodshop.
Delta bought the Bill Biesemeyer line not PM. When the patent ran out everyone copied the Bies. You are right on no one is making the jetlock fences anymore. Larry is the "only" one I know of liking the jetlock.
Edited 1/30/2007 11:11 am ET by RickL
Delta bought the company from Bill Biesmeyer, but in the early 80's Powermatic bought fences from Biesmeyer before they sold the company to Delta. We have a Unisaw with a Unifence and a PM66 with a Biesmeyer fence painted the PM gold. So I assume it was OEM for PM66's for a while.
"Jetlock" was the Delta fence. Powermatic's old fence as a far better adjustment to square the fence and that adjustment is positive, easy to adjust, and holds its setting. Powermatic's old fence is cast iron where Delta's was cheap stamped sheet metal. The "jetlock" fence had one lever to lock both the front and back while Powermatic's uses two levers. If the user understands the bigger lower lever locks the fences and squares it to the table and the lever for the back is locked only after the front lever is tight, there's no problem with keeping the fence square.
I had a Delta saw and the "jetlock" fence was flat lousy.
The Biesemeyer fence is prone to flexing at the back, lacks fine adjustment and I wish I had a dollar for everytime I saw someone mash their fingers between the fence and the miter gage slot. I wish I had a dollar for every time I did it.
Powermatic's old cast iron fence is more accurate than the Biesemeyer.
The Biesemeyer is actually a take-off of some of the British and European saw fences. The difference is the real ones have an angled brace to keep them from flexing. The only one I've actually handled was on a 1959 Martin saw similar to this one:
View Image
My mistake on the term jetlock. I tend to lump them all of that style under the term. I'm pretty familiar with equipment as I started in the factories and ended up working as a tech doing service on machines including Delta, SCMI, Casadei, etc. I also owned a PM with the original fence which I gladly sold and replace with a Biesemeyer. I don't have the problems you had with the Bies and we used to sell a lot of retro-fit fences and guys would come and tell us they could do an extra kitchen a week because they didn't have to measure from the blade each time. I don't see how you can say the old PM fence is more accurate. The numbers on the pipe are dismal to use. To each his own. I know at your age you aren't going to change your belief's. You are the "only" guy I know who is such a staunch supporter of the old fence.
I do agree that the PM fence is better than the Delta jetlock.
I don't think Bill Biesemeyer was familiar with the European saws. As I read years ago it was based on the drafting T square. Delta's Unifence was clearly taken from the European style fences.
Edited 1/30/2007 3:32 pm ET by RickL
"...I don't see how you can say the old PM fence is more accurate. The numbers on the pipe are dismal to use. To each his own. I know at your age you aren't going to change your belief's. You are the "only" guy I know who is such a staunch supporter of the old fence."
I guess me being the only one might be an advantage. I am looking to get a replacement gear for the fine adjustment for less than the $70 Powermatic wants for it. I've been thinking of making my own but haven't gotten around to buying the cutter for the teeth. Maybe I should just post a standing offer for a couple old #66 fences in the classifieds. Though when I asked my partner today if he'd trade his Biesemeyer style fence for the old style, he got excited for a second. Then he realized it was a hypothetical question.
I guess your use of the built in fence rule might explain the our differing opinions of accuracy. I consider those rules to be good only for "in the neighborhood of" types of cuts. They're fine for cutting oversized rough stock but I'd never try to build anything from them. I've been known to clamp the magnetic base of my dial indicator to the table and adjust joinery cuts by reading off the back of the fence. The sloppy movement Biesemeyer style fences would make that impossible. Maybe Adam was right, I'm just an old curmudgeon about some things.
Looking at the money you guys want to spent on a very old saw (thats only been seen at a distance), why not buy a new saw that is complete in the box! I don't see it!?!?!
I have one of the old green powermatics........went Biesemeyer some time ago, only to get the full 52" cutting capacity. I was fine with the old fence. I still have it just because I couldn't stand to throw it out and I keep thinking I'll run into someone who wants it. Has the two levers, fine adjusting knob etc. Some surface rust from kicking around the barn. Its in Middlebury VT if anyone wants to come get it free. If you need me to ship it, figure the costs from a pack &ship place, add a good faith amount for my time to go there and its a deal..........
Tony
A private message is on the way.
I saw a unit like that on e-bay a week or so ago. They said that was mint, too, but it looked pretty worn.
Anyhow, you can use single phase current and a 3 phase motor to conver your single phase to 3 phase. Any electrician can do it. I really works pretty well. I was running a Bridgeport Milling machine in my garage with that set-up.
You can get old 3 phase motors pretty cheap. Lots of them laying around and no-one wants them.
Barry in West Virginia
Edited 1/29/2007 10:07 pm ET by Anderson
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