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Can one increase the bevel angle of a low angle (12 beg bed) plane to 30 or 35 degrees and get good performance in hardwoods – or will it even plane at all? This would give an included angle of 42 to 47 degrees. Specifically I wonder if the performance of the N 164, with the iron beveled to 35 degrees, would approach or equal that of the N #4 or #4 1/2 soothers? If it would, and if there is no other down side to the planing performance, then it would seem that with two irons (say, 25 & 35 beg bevel) the 164 would be capable of outstanding work in soft AND hard woods? Am I on solid ground with this line of thought?
In a past issue of FEW the author of the Hand plane Book tested a batch of planes including the N #4 soother. In that article he noted that he also used the N 164 and that, predictably, in hardwoods “tearout was terrible”. Softwood performance was fine. That’s when I wondered if a 35 degree bevel was even feasible and if so would it make the 164 comparable to the #4. This interests me because if @ 35 degree bevel the hardwood performance equals the #4 or 4 1/2 then:
1. The 164 would appear more versatile;
2. I think that I would prefer the ability to adjust the iron and the throat independently – get the iron set just right and then tune the throat. It seems like that would be quicker, easier and more certain;
3. It looks like the cutting edge would be closer to the support of the plane body of the 164 than it is with the #4 – I’m not sure about this but based on the LN drawings it looks like this might be the case. If so then this might help reduce chatter and;
4. The 164 has a thicker iron, further reducing chatter.
Do any of you have any thoughts, reactions or experience relating to this?
TIA
John Clay
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John,
One could increase the bevel angle to 30-35 degrees on a low angle plane iron, but my experience tells me to advise against it. The low angle plane was originally developed for work on end grain. As such, it was designed to slice through fibers that are perpendicular to the sole of the plane. If you can visualize a small bundle of straw standing vertical and then trying to cut that bundle with a higher angle bezel, the iron will crush rather than slice those fibers.
I don't believe that a properly tuned and adjusted low angle plane would give near the same quality of finish as a properly tuned and adjusted smoothing plane will on face grain. If the author of the article was using a #164 to smooth the face of stock, he was misusing the tool, in my opinion.
You are correct in adjusting your depth of cut first and then adjusting the mouth accordingly. Bench planes have a frog that is used in adjusting the mouth opening. In addition, the cap iron is a crucial adjustment as well when setting up for depth of cut, type of wood, and type of grain. As a for instance; I very rarely need to adjust the frog on my #4. If the stock that I am smoothing is cherry, for example, I will set the cap iron about 1/64" back from the cutting edge, the shavings will be continuous and almost transparent. If, on the other hand, I am smoothing a softer wood like poplar or pine, I will set the cap iron about 1/32" back from the cutting edge. Of course, grain determines these adjustments.
All of the irons on my planes have a 25 degree bezel and are honed at 30 degrees. While there are a lot of opinions regarding bevel angles and honing angles, I use what works best for me based upon 40 years in working with wood. The rule of thumb is that the higher the cutting angle, the smoother the cut. That is why scraping plane irons are bedded at about 80 degrees. The Norris smoothing plane is so highly sought after because the iron is bedded at about 55 degrees (plus, of course, because of it's weight). Stanley bedded their irons at 45 degrees as a compromise for general use by the masses.
I hope this answers your questions, the bottom line is that the #164 is considered a specialty plane to be used primarily for end grain.
Dano
*HI,My experience is different to Dano's, although everyone finds different methods that work well for them. I have a LN low angle jack and block plane. I have put a 35 degree bevel on the blade, bring the angle to 45 degree's and find that it works as well as I could get a #4 smoother to work. It does this without the hassels of moving the frog back and forth and fitting the chip breaker. This set-up puts a tear free, mirror finish on wood. You can also go higher with the angle if you are working with more difficult woods.The japanwoodworker sells an interesting book by Brian Burns that talks about these sort of issues. It is cheap too.Trevor
*Trevor,FWIW, in effect you turned your low angle planes into regular smoothers. Click on attachment. Bezel up; cutting angle = honing angle + bed angle, bezel down; cutting angle = bedding angle.Dano
*Maybe all you guys who have problems with this plane on hardwoods should sell them to me. These planes are the main smoother for everybody in our shop, and everything we do is hardwood. Planed gaboon ebony just yesterday. Maybe your irons aren't sharp.
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