Replies

1. 
   jako17 | Dec 01, 2004 03:31am | #1

   No, use solvent contact adhesive .You can obtain backer laminate for balancing the top and it is cheap, 15 bucks a 4 by 8

   
   

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   Edited 11/30/2004 8:28 pm ET by jako

1. 
   alanplanesaw | Dec 01, 2004 05:36am | #2

   I had not heard of backer laminate.  I'll check into it.

   Thanks,  Alan

2. 
   nikkiwood | Dec 01, 2004 07:12am | #3

   Instead of backer laminate, can you get the same result by brushing on a coat or two of varnish on the bottom side a laminated countertop?

1. 
   jako17 | Dec 01, 2004 04:45pm | #6

   The principal of backer laminate, is not just sealing the surface, it is the same as a balancing verneer on a table top.HP laminate responds to humidity and heat and moves accordingly.Backer laminate is the same as normal laminate without the wear and decorative surface.I have only obtained it in black and dark brown

2. 
   JohnWW | Dec 01, 2004 04:56pm | #7

   Varnish isn't a substitute for a backer sheet because it won't resist expansion and contraction of the substrate the way that the top sheet of laminate does. 

   That said, plenty of laminate is installed only on the top face, usually without terrible consequences, especially on run of the mill kitchen counters.  As the size of the laminated surface gets larger, the chances of problems occuring increases.

   John W.

2. 
   KeithNewton | Dec 01, 2004 08:03am | #4

   Alan, 3M probably makes several hundred adhesives. You need to be more specific with your question. 3M is a very good brand name, and does make a high tack contact that I feel is as good as anybody's.
   I think they are numbered where 30 ish would be for something like spray mount where you would like to remove something later to 77 which would be a consumer high tack, to 90 which is industrial strength. If you really want to know, why don't you type 3M spray adhesive, tech. support. You could spend the rest of the week, and still not wade through all of their products.

1. 
   highfigh | Dec 01, 2004 08:32am | #5

   Weldwood is one of the contact cements that is made for laminating. The reason it's a good idea to seal the backside of the substrate is that if the humidity goes up, the substrate swells and the laminated side won't, making it prone to curling. Particle board is worse for this than MDF. If the laminated piece is a countertop and is fastened to the cabinets, it won't move very much as long as it's secure. A couple of coats of varnish works for partical board. Again, MDF is a lot more stable. If you're doing boxes or doors, both sides should be laminated. Cabinet liner is one option for the inside or backside, basically what was mentioned before. Wilsonart makes this and it's not terribly expensive. It's not as heavy as the typical surfaces and comes in just a few colors, usually white, almond and fashion grey and sometimes black. There are a few grades of laminate- vertical(thinner), postform(thicker) and an even thicker grade. The backing is about the same on all three but the top surface is thicker. If you want to save some money, go to the laminate supplier near you and ask if they have any sheets that are dinged up. They don't toss them and don't ask full price either, although some places have a customer who buys all of the damaged sheets. If you haven't laminated before, you'll need a J roller, a fine file for the edges and a few flush cut router bits. Also, resist the temptation to run your fingers along the freshly routed or filed edges to check your work. This stuff cuts skin like butter. If you run your hand along a rough edge, it saws into skin.
   "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."

2. 
   alanplanesaw | Dec 01, 2004 05:48pm | #8

   Good point regarding clarification.  I had been told about the 3M 90.

   Is that as good as the "old" contact cement?  I have been told it is.

   Alan - planesaw

1. 
   KeithNewton | Dec 01, 2004 06:19pm | #9

   Are you spraying or roll /brushing?
   Either way, it is as good or better than it needs to be for laminate. Personally, I would not go back to brush/ roll if you plan to make money. The cost of materials seems a little high to begin with, but you will make more $ by the time saved on just one medium sized job.
   If you are a hobist, just go ahead and get an arisol can or two, and give it a try.

1. 
   bones | Dec 02, 2004 05:07am | #10

   I'll second the spray. I did my router top with HP laminate and the cabinet shop supplier that I bought the laminate from, recommended Conbond 690. It comes in an aerosol can and was about 12 bucks for a 17oz can. My Top was 26 x 45 and I coated both the laminate and the MDF good, and it used about 60% of the can. Dried in less than 5 minutes and when the two pieces touched that was it. Rolled it out with a J-roller and flush trimmed and chamfered the edge. Holds great. He sells large containers that look like propane tanks to the pro's in the area.  If you are doing a small job the aerosol is easy.