What is the difference between a #4 and a #4 1/2 smoothing plane? Also, has anyone use the Veritas version? I’m trying to decide between the Lie Nielsen and the Veritas.
Thank you!
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Replies
3/8ths inch in blade width. 4 is 2" wide. 4 1/2 is 2 38". With a bigger blade, the body, frog, etc are all necessarily bigger and heavier too.
is one better than the other?
One is different from the other, not better than. It's a matter of personal style and preferences. I like the added heft of the 4 1/2. It makes it easier for me to plane better and faster. Others find the opposite to be true.
So, if you can, try before you buy.
Or buy them both. Keep one in the shop, the other in the car...Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
I think Patrick Leech noted that the 4 1/2 was by far the most popular plane manufactured by Stanley. That probably says something about the relative usefulness in a limited collection.
"I think Patrick Leech noted that the 4 1/2 was by far the most popular plane manufactured by Stanley."
No offense, but I'm skeptical about this statement. I don't see anything like that on Mr. Leach's "Blood and Gore": http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan1.htm#num4
In fact, on that page, Patrick says the 4 was right up there with the 5 as the most ubiquitous bench planes.
It also does not jibe with my personal experience. Ever cruise eBay for old Stanley's? 4's are a dime a dozen compared to 4 1/2's. I think this strongly suggests that 4's were produced and sold in far greater volumes that 4 1/2's.
Now all that has nothing to do with their merits. Lots of times, what's popular is not necessarily what's best. As other's have said, what's best is largely a personal question that depends on things like what you're comfortable hefting and what kind of work you do with what kinds of woods.
samson wrote.....
something to the effect that 4's appear more than 4 1/2's on ebay, so seemed to conclude that there were more 4's sold than 4.5s. Perhaps, but not for that reason maybe.
An alternate conjecture is that once folks get a 4 1/2, they just don't try to sell it on Ebay.
Most folks I know have more 4's than they want, and will occassionally sell one. Not so for the 41/2's
folks tend to keep em. Wisely, in my opinion. Not the extra width, but the mass. Seems it helps to keep things moving a tad more smoothly....
Eric
in Cowtown
It's the added heft, boyo, the added heft, plus the wiSeness.
is one better than the other?
Yeah, definitely, in just the same way that chocolate ice cream is better than vanilla. ;-)
chocolate ice cream is better than vanillaONLY... if the Vanilla is on the Bottom...
Dave,
So far, the main points have been covered. I merely emphasise- it's the added heft, boyo, the added heft.
I recently spent 32% of my life savings and got a Veritas 41/2 , as I was in danger of getting an inferiority complex as I had only been using Stanley and Record for the last 35 years. After some modifications I am pleased with it-it would appear that the "lesser" planes in my shop are in good working order<G>
Obviously the L/N is more expensive, might even be better, but is it worth the price difference? I admit to choosing the Veritas over the L/N because of this and also the Norris type adjuster as well as the the other differences swayed me. I have seen several reviews where it is obvious that the minds could not really be made up....
Bite the bullet, buy a L-N 4 1/2 with a high angle frog, you'll love it. I finished some very currly cherry with it, NO TEAROUT..... NONE. No time wasted tuning it up, just a quick pass on the hard black Arkansas stone and plane.
Buy the best, only cry once.
I have the veritas 4 and a half. No issues, except that the casting is very soft, as mentioned in other postings. The tool works very very well. After some practice sharpening I can regularly get full width shavings in difficult grain. Handplaned my entire workbench and a bar-top lamination using this plane (really to get some practice). Veritas has a #4 too. One thing to consider is that the 4 1/2 does need more force to push it forward.
If like me you're new to handtools I think the veritas will help you get over the initial learning stages. I bought some combination water stones and the sharpening guide from them too. Looking back, handplanes seem to be a vehicle to bring your sharpening skills to bear on the quality of the wood surface. It's the sharpening skills that are central to good results, that and not cutting aggressively.
It's nice to not wear ear protection or a dust mask. I was given their spokeshaves a while back for my birthday and after learning how to use a handplane I am getting the swing of these too. Again, sharpening. There was a post a while back describing testing sharpness by cutting hairs on the back of your hand. If I can get the blade to do that without applying force, time to go back to work.
Some misadventures:
Early on I dropped the blade on some tiles and had to grind down almost 1/8th because the corner chipped off. Other than that I have never used a grinding wheel to sharpen.
Also, moving my toolbox from the house to the car in the rain some water got in to the box and the plane rusted a fair bit but I cleaned it up with fine automotive sandpapers.
The body can scratch and ding easily but this is just a cosmetic thing to date.
After the mishaps it works better than ever, which is to say that I have finally learned how to sharpen, keep the shavings thin, and blade evenly projected. Card scrapers are needed second step in finishing any wide surface...
Have fun,
Ted
Hello Dave,
I am playing with my camera. Thought you and others might like to see my modifications to Veritas 41/2. Being semi- lunatic I like to personalise these things,using timbers I like. Didn't like the Veritas handle shape -mine feels better.
And now this brings a question for the camera boffins-#335 is there at 84kb-I cropped it to exclude some background and it came up at 137kb-why???
As impressed as I was by the new work on the plane, I'm really jealous of the finish on your bench, and the nice rug on your shop floor. On the picture size question - its not a camera issue, but came from whatever program you used to crop/resize the image. You likely saved it at a high jpeg 'quality' setting. High quality settings employ lower amounts of compression - so even though you'd cropped the picture, the resulting file was larger than the original. --Tom
Tom, thanks for that-I did indeed save it at 100% jpegwhatumacallits-will play some more next time.
BTW, the "bench" top is that of a coffin stool made by me and the wood is Jacaranda-a lovely stable timber that I now use mainly for drawer sides-another picture attached.Edited 8/1/2005 4:45 am ET by Philip Marcou
Edited 8/1/2005 6:04 am ET by Philip Marcou
That's a beautiful drawer. Jacaranda, eh? I assumed it was maple on first look; I went back and see the difference now. Nice work.--Tom
Thanks Tom.
Here is the rest of it-writing table-Iroko timber,shellac and precatlac finish, leather panels,military style.
Sorry about file size-dredged it up from the depths and couldn't see how to make it smaller.
Philip,
Nice pictures, nice work.
Where do you get the Jacaranda wood from? Was this in Zim?
Heidi and I visited South Africa in 2003, picked some Jacaranda seeds, the trees are now growing in California and after the experiment, we now find out the origin is South America.
Willie,
When I used to work in Pasadena, CA, I used to enjoy walking through the neighborhoods with streets lined with by Jacaranda trees - especially when they were in full flower! Gorgeous!
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
It breaks my heart to hear what some of you have spent on tools. Last week I refurbished an antique Stanley 4 1/2 that was purchased at an antique mall. I relly lucked out on this one. It needed a little work to get it cutting smooth including some rust removal, a new paint job and a couple of hours at the buffing wheel to clean up the bare metal and some time sharpening. The end result was awesome, a very easy working plane that only cost me $6.50. There was a #7 right next to it that I hope os still there tomarrow when I am back in that area.
Yes but Chris, what do we do when we become tired of our refurbished Stanleys and Records?
Hi Willie,
The Jacaranda comes from my place in Zimbabwe-now wasting in the hands of the disgustoids-I brought some to New Zealand.
You are correct-jacaranda originates in brazil, but has taken hold in southern Africa in a big way. When in flower it is a great sight.
The Spaniards liked to use it for their stage coaches-easy to know why.
Er, those seeds, how did they get a residence permit? I would think that the tree would grow nicely in places like Texas or California.
Have included pictures of a spinning wheel I made long ago-my first taste of Jacaranda. Used a Black and Decker drill driven lathe and tools made from files.My Mother "altered" the colour with iodine solution....
The carpet? Itis 14x9 and is a "Kirhman"-1958-does that mean any thing to you?
They do grow in South Florida USA.
Had a huge one outside my 2nd-floor dorm window at school in Queensland - good strong timber as well as a good looking tree. Foiliage not quite thick enough to hide in.
Dave
I bet it was amazing to look at when it bloomed.
Its funny, but I always thought that they were the sort of the state flower of Queensland - they are so prevalent that if you see pictures of purple flowers, high-set houses and worn out picket fences you just know its a Queensland country town. The publisher that does school atlases etc is Jacaranda Press
About eight years ago I happened to be in California and did one of those bus tours of LA to fill in time. The driver pointed out the Jacaranda and told me it was South American.
If you ever get a chance to go to Goondawindi, Warick or Towwoomba when this stuff is in flower you will see a purple town.
Jim,
I am saying that I am surprised that people don't seem to use it as a cabinetry wood in the States.
It has all the right attributes, and then some.
Yes, I would agree. There isn't enough grown here to be harvested and milled commercially, so it and other species similar to it must be imported. There is, in fact, a company in North Carolina (central to the furniture industry there) that was founded by two brothers from South Africa that specializes in African woods.
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