We just completed our new four car garage (26×40) and I get one “bay” of about 10×26 to set up a workshop. My plan is to spend up to about $4000 for equipment and would like advice from the “experts” on what to get (brand and model!) since up to now I ‘ve mostly just built sheds, finished a small attic, etc., but have never done any more complicated joinery than a butt joint. So far I have all the portable tools I’ll need for a while (circ saw, jigsaw, drills, plunge router, etc.) as well as a pretty nice miter saw (boy has that guy seen use) and a brand new Unisaw with 50″ Biesemeyer that I haven’t even finished putting together (IRS takes precedence). The Unisaw took up about $1700 so there’s about $2500 left in the budget. The garage is wired out the wazoo with 4 x 220 single phase outlets with 30amp service plus 110’s everywhere. The garage is unfinished and of course has no heating/cooling but then I don’t plan to do much in it during the winter.
My first projects are:
1) Cabinets/shelves,work area along most of rear wall (40 ft). I intend to get a lot of practice with basic woodworking during this phase since mistakes won’t matter quite as much.
2) Nice bookcases to cover about 8’x18′ feet of dining room wall. Maybe something along the line of the bookcase described by Phil Lowe in Sep/Oct 1994 FWN but simplified a bit (forego columns?).
3) Country hutch for kitchen about 4’x8′ with open shelves and probably no doors.
4) Red or white oak flooring for two rooms each about 8’x10′. A pretty good plywood base is already in place.
5) About 50 miles of baseboards and other trim.
I will probably use mostly red oak and poplar because I can get unfinished wood at good prices from family sawmill 10 minutes down the road.
I’m thinking of getting a jointer, planer and bandsaw. My inclination is to go with the YorkCraft YC-8J jointer but planer and bandsaw are completely up in the air. I’ll also need to get a few nice handtools such as a combination square because most of the stuff I’ve got is pretty low end more intended for framing and so on.
Replies
Mr Bubba,
When I began woodworking some 8 years ago, money was tight. Also, the ladywife and I were in competition for the moolah, as she believes that there is always a need for more shoes and nice frocks, despite a bulging wardrobe of similar items that I rarely see on the feet or person of that lady. (But I digress)
So, I devised a few rules for tool buying. They aren't foolproof or complete (perhaps others will add to them). But these rules are useful in that they can be applied independently of particular tools or styles of intended woodworking.
1 You can only buy a tool that you have to have in order build a definite project (ie a real thing today, not an imagined thing sometime in the vague future). Example: you cannot have spindle molder for that French armoire in a year or two if you are building only shaker furniture for the house today.
2 If you can learn a skill and spend the necessary time, buy the cheapest option between simple (skill-needing) tools and complex ones (the tool does the difficult stuff). Example: a fine saw, chisels and marking tools are cheaper than a Leigh jig and cutters, if you can spend the time and learn the skill of handcut dovetails.
3 Prefer multi-task tools to single task ones. Example: buy a router and a woodrat rather than a mortising machine if you want to make a lot of mortise and tenons. The woodrat and router will make a hundred other joints too but the mortising machine only makes square-ended holes (and not even tenons).
4 Buy expensive not cheap. In the long run, the cost per hour used will be cheaper with a well-engineered tool rather than cheapie. The expensive tool will last longer and not consume endless spare parts that cheapies wear out in ten minutes. Also, the expensive tool will do a better job. Example: a Lamello biscuit joiner will perform and last better than a Freud, albeit for 3-4 times the price.
5 Buy tools that are mainstream for all woodwork. Example: (for most) a TS, a bandsaw and a planer-thicknesser are de rigeur. These tools enable you to cut up and dimension virtually any timber. One may have a different list (eg if one were going to primarily build guitars or make bowls).
6 Avoid the temptation to buy nice looking tools with little actual utility to you. Also, avoid the collector syndrome (of tool varieties, specious add-ons and so forth. Example: you don't need every number of handplane type made by Mr Nielsen; a router needs only the bits you will use, not the other 11 in that tempting set of 12 in a nice wooden box.
7 Those basic tools you select as needful to you should be state of the art, design-wise. Examples: if you buy a TS you will inevitably want, one day, to cross-cut large planks or sheet goods on it in addition to ripping, so get one with a sliding carriage. If you need a thicknesser ("planer" in American) you will need a jointer as the former is not much use without the latter. Why not get a machine that combines the two and save money/shop space.
Hope these help, including the Euro-centric ones. :-)
Finally, here is my personal list, as an "average woodworker":
* 10 " TS with sliding carriage big enough for a sheet of plywood.
* Bandsaw with a 12" resaw capacity
* Planer/thicknesser that will handle boards up to 10" wide and 6" thick.
* Small router, large router and a router table (with bits as you need them)
* Woodrat, if you want to make complex joints without learning the many necessary skills.
* 1 HP lathe if you want to turn spindles
* Set of chisels 1/4" to 1"; block plane; rabbet plane (I like Veritas); engineers square, marking knife, steel rulers, straight edge.
* Random orbit sander, belt sander and delta sander (I like Festool)
* Biscuit joiner (I have a mafell but that Porter Cable looks good)
* Japanese saw
* drill press and drill bits as you need them
* drum sander (an indulgenge but surprisingly useful).
Lataxe
Did you mean to leave out a jointer?
My list of stationary tools as "must haves" are table saw, jointer, thickness planer and bandsaw. Hand power tools are drill and router. After these, buy on an "as needed" basis. My personal problem is that I think I need everything!
My 2 cents worth. Dale
Lataxe: If only I had asked for advice when I got started woodworking!! So much of your reply to Bubba rings true for my situation. I bought the nice boxes of router bits (drawer full) not just the ones I knew I needed then in addition a bit rack which I proceeded to almost fill. Planes-boy they are neat looking; filled another drawer with them and then chisels, then all the stationary and portable power tools; you get the picture, tool junkie, first class. I am trying my best to learn to use it all and if not I'll take good care of everything and pass it on...............
DukeKenneth Duke Masters
The Bill of Rights December 15 1791 NRA Endowment Member
LEAA Life Member
CRPA Member
Duke,
I know what you mean about taking good care of them and passing them on. I'm a real tool fanatic too. Some gamble, golf or drink....I like to have and FONDLE tools. My son and s-i-l are just cahmping at the bit, dontcha know.
So many tools.....so little space and $$$$
We can always play, n'est pas?
bum
Bum...keep smiling...makes 'em wonder what you're up to !!
Kenneth,
Well, I learnt most of these rules the hard way. :-) I have many nicely-boxed and unused router bits, a mortise attachment for the drill press that never worked and one or two (or three) other tools that seemed a good idea at the time but have somehow lain unused for a while now.
As it can't be my fault (nothing can, that's my rule, as the ladywife knows) I have to blame someone else. That Lee Valley and similar purveyors with their tool-porn catalogues are the real culprits. How are we supposed to resist all that gleaming metal, photographed in soft lights and described with glowing prose!?
Lataxe, slobberer over tools.
Thanks for the extensive reply. I see that you're back in the old country so your universe of tools is probably a bit different from what's common over here but do you have recommendations on "thicknesser" and band saw? I'm looking at the dewalt 735 planer in part because it is available locally at Lowes which is pretty at taking returns if I'm not satisfied.
I would not buy a DeWalt thickness planer due to the fact that I burned the belt within two hours of it being taken out of the box. I was milling a 8/4 piece of spanish cedar and the belt slipped and burned out. If you don't mind buying a few spare belts it will probably work for you since changing the belt is straight forward. This may have been just a fluke. Anyone else with similar experiences?Richard
There's actually a somewhat tempting deal at Amazon right now where you get the DW735 plus in/outfeed tables for $467 including shipping. Of course that assumes the 735 is what I want/need :).
Hey there, I think you hit it on the head. For a small shop doing a variety of tasks, that about covers it. You really need to look at the kind of work you're doing or want to do, to know your tool requirements. Watching Norm Abrams drives me crazy, you can do an amazing amount of work with a circular saw, belt sander and router. Good blades, good belts and good carbide bits.
With all the great answers here, I have to add one thing, DC, you need to buy/build a cyclone, not a powered bag chip collector/fine dust spreader.Oh yeah, one more thing, I'd not buy a TS first, I'd buy a Guided Circular Saw System. I have the Festool TS55 and it rocks, but there are other options too.I've found that since I bought this, my TS is delegated to the Dado blade.With a GCSS, Bandsaw, router table, jointer, planer, SCMS, and assorted hand tools, you can do just about anything you want.Just my two yen's worth.Cheers!
I've been at this for over 25 years and the best thing I can tell you is look at used equipment. There is some great stuff out there and a lot of cash to be saved. I set up a friend who is new to the craft with:
1965 vintage Unisaw w/30 Biesemeyer, new bearings and Delta 3HP motor, $900.00
1980 Delta 14" bandsaw, $225 plus $200 from Iturra to tune it up.
1960's Boice Crane 6" LONG bed (62") jointer, direct drive, 120V, $675.00
1960's Delta 13" planner, total rebuild with new Baldor 5HP, $1400.00
All the basics for $3400.00 and a lot heavier stuff than you can get today. You just need to scrounge around a little.
My shop is full of old iron, I only buy new from L-N!
As a matter of principle I agree that going with used "big iron" is a good idea. Unfortunately I'm not that familiar with shop equipment and would be somewhat at the mercy of the seller. There's also the issue of delivery which would probably be considerably more complicated with a private party. And lastly, and perhaps most importantly, there is a fair bit of urgency to the projects I listed. The garage has to be set up in the next month or so and bookcases/hutch have to be done by early summer.
It is a lot easier than buying a used car and lift gate trucks are cheap to rent. You can save a lot of $$$ to put toward material for those pending projects.
Jointer and planer to flatten and joint your wood - allows you to buy rough lumber at a lower price
Dust Collector - See http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm for info on them
Bandsaw - 14" or 16" depending on how much resawing you will do. If not much, or not above 6" a 14" will do fine.
A good set of chisels
A good shoulder plane and a block plane
A striking knife ( I like the lee valley )
I like having a compressor and a 16 gauge, 20 gauge and 8 gauge nailers with a stapler, impact wrench and paint pot also.
Making up tool lists is fun, but have you designed your space arrangement yet? I work out of a two car garage (~350 sq ft) and things get pretty crowded when I'm building large projects. You have even less space - lol.
I you haven't already done it, you should also be planning for material storage, power requirements, work areas (work benches and open floor space), small tool storage, dust collection, compressor and air line locations, etc, etc.
My shop just sorta grew and it works pretty well but I often find myself wishing I could re-do some things - lol.
ElBubba,
Most power tools are built in Tiawain nowdays, Most are pretty good if a bit basic.
I bought Grizzly because it gets really high ratings and is cheap..
(I love cheap) So far my grizzly 8 inch long bed jointer has jointeed nearly 20,000 bd.ft. of hardwood, my Grizzly 20 inch planner has planned 30,000 bd.ft. of hardwood, my Grizzly 12 inch tablesaw is fine, and the 3 hp shaper from Grizzly has been a godsend.
All of that equipment is capabable of doing better work than I can. A real tuneup would make thing better, but as I said It's excellant right as it came out of the box...
I would buy a bandsaw first, then a planer and a jointer towards the end of my budget..
Jet makes an OK one as does Grizzly, heck most of them are fine.. The blade makes a bigger differance than the brand
I'll flout my ignorance (I didn't say stupidity, just ignorance) but isn't a planer of minimal use without a jointer - at least for unfinished lumber?
ElBubba,I have a large tool collection & I use them all. There is no surplus. I recently figured the cost of stationary power tools at about $5000.Personally, I would have spent less on the saw & gotten a smaller unit. But, that being done, you should opt for only a 6-inch jointer. You will probably like Yorkcraft. I have YC-8J, but the smaller one would have done. Expect a huge freight bill for its delivery or opt for Grizzly. It may be a good idea to avoid parallelogram table adjustment & stick to the tried & true dovetail ways. Lowe's has a Delta 14-inch bandsaw for $379 last time I looked. It is one tool with which I find no fault. If you find it limiting, add riser kit & bigger motor as I did. There are several portable thickness planers which are decent. Ridgid may be a good choice since The Depot stands behind what they sell pretty well. My Delta 22-560 makes me happy. It will snipe, but seldom does. My newest acquisition is a Delta floor model drill press. You can get by with less. I have a mortising set for it as well as a tenoning jig for my table saw. Both have seen a lot of service. You don't have to dovetail drawers, but if you do, Porter-Cable's 4212 worked for me right out of the box. A very useful tool is Ridgid's benchtop belt/spindle sander. Tools which displease me are my Makita 9820-2 sharpening system & Performax 10-20 sander. In your small space, mobile bases may require a chunk of change. Small space is why I recommend a 6-inch jointer. Also, you will need a workbench which should be stationary. I built mine. That sound like a good next project for you. LOL!Cadiddlehopper
Build a nice bench. You will find that it is the one tool you use every project.
Good luck
ElBubba,
Well if you squint with one eye closed and hold your breath just right, a planner can be a jointer!
Gasp!
when I need to joint a really wide board I have a sled I run thru my planer with infeed and outfeed tables I bang to gether.I hold the board to be jointed firly in the sled and run it over the cutters.. it may be a bit rube goldberg but I can joint 20 inch wide boards that way!
The planner then acts just like a jointer..
There is a nice article in one of Tauton press's books about how to use your table saw as a jointer as well. basically you'll need to tune up your table saw and then get a really long fence. (twice as long as the board you want to joint is..)
You only get one of the four bays? My two car garage has never seen a car, and likely never will. Cars like it out doors--they rust less in the winter from road salt, for one thing. Do think about a little winter heat--thats the very best way of keeping rust at bay.
I guess I need to confess. One bay will be for the workshop but another one (far right bay) is for my PowerTrac PT-425 tractor (check out power-trac.com). And to be completely honest, the far left bay (workshop) encroaches somewhat on the middle two bays which currently hold the family car. My car sits outside.
I'm going through the same process as you. To date I've spent about $3500. I purchased a Grizzly 1023SLWX 10" 5 HP cabinet saw with attached router table, DeWalt 3 HP plunge router, Hitachi 3 HP plunge router (already had 2 other routers too), about a dozen 1/2 shank carbide router bits in various shapes, JET 16" 3 HP planer, Grizzly 14" (industrial grade) 1 1/2 HP band saw, several Timber Wolf blades for BS (a must), Grizzly 8" jointer, JET 1-1/2 HP Dust Collection system (get remote controller, was a $10 extra for me, MONEY WELL SPENT as was the extra separator components, uses 30 gal trash can), 16" floor model drill press, 4 hand planes of various sizes, couple of japanese hand saws, a dovetail saw, dozen quality pipe clamps, dozen smaller bar clamps, couple dozen C clamps in various sizes, and a dozen spring clamps, set of chisels, sharpening guides, sandpaper/granite surface plate, KREG pocket system, Tenoning jig.
I've also purchased about 80 bf of maple/oak/cherry for my first project, a woodworking workbench with tailvise and shoulder vise!!!
I think the biggest surprise for me has been how much money I've spent on miscellaneous small stuff, bits, blades, knives, hand tools, scales, chisels, sandpaper, brushes, glues, respirator, safety glasses, stuff like that. I already had a pretty good shop and a lot of this stuff is upgrades for me. It's great to be the boss, this has been more fun than a barrel of monkeys...
BTW, I have a Yanmar fwd tractor with loader and backhoe in my garage as well! Great minds think alike eh?!.
Jeff
The real question is why are jointers so much more expensive than planers? Is it just the infeed/outfeed tables? Frankly I would think a planer should be more expensive than a jointer of comparable width because the planer appears to be more mechanically complex and yet a 12" jointer is a whopping expense where a nice 12" planer can be had for under $500.
I think it's almost entirely the cost of those large, machined, cast-iron tables, along with their adjustment mechanisms. Those big castings are expensive to make and ship.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
A $500 planer is a portable or benchtop unit. A similarly constructed jointer-planer (an older name for the tool) can be had for about $200. A planer constructed with iron castings is definitely more expensive than a jointer-planer.I used a Delta benchtop jointer for 10 years. It gave great service & knife adjustment is easier than on the big guys. Benchtop jointers & planers have small universal motors & belt drives. They can survive quite well in one-man home shops. They are not comparable to the table saw that you bought in durability, rigidity, or power, not to mention size & weight.Cadiddlehopper
Jefe!
My answer/recommendation is a bit different from the rest. Below is my recommended list of HAND TOOLS for your shop. They're less expensive than most of them there tailed apprectices, and you'll need many of them anyway, even if you go with the tailed apprentices.
Seriously, best of luck to you in setting up your new shop!!
James
_____
Here are some recommendations for a beginning hand tool set.
Hand planes: low angle adjustable-mouth block plane (probably the single most useful and versatile plane of them all); a #4 or a #4-1/2, a #5 or a #5-1/2, and a #7 or a #8 for bench planes; (a scrub plane, if you're going to do your woodworking exclusively with hand tools, otherwise it's more or less optional -- get a "real" scrub plane here; it works much better than a converted bench/smoothing plane.); a shoulder plane is also very handy. My recommendation would be either old (pre-WWII) Stanleys (be prepared to do some fettling with the older tools) or new Lie-Nielsens (a bit on the expensive side); others will suggest the LV/Veritas planes or Clifton (moderate $$ to expensive); special-purpose planes can be added, as required. If you prefer wooden planes, ECE, Knight, and Clark & Williams -- to mention just a couple of modern wooden plane makers -- make very nice ones, but they are not inexpensive. Old (antique) wooden planes are not my area of expertise, so I'll have to defer to someone else to advise you on them.
Chisels: a good set of bench chisels (you'll get lots of recommendations from others here; I like the Japanese chisels sold by Woodcraft, but there are many, many other good chisels out there), and a good mallet.
Saws: Quality rip and cross cut saws (one of each to start); a good tenon and a good dovetail saw. An Azibiki (Japanese mortise saw) is an incredibly useful little saw for a just few dollars. Take a look at the Japanese saws, as well as the western-style ones. I use both styles.
Layout tools: an accurate straight edge; a good marking gauge (I like the TiteMark); a marking knife; a bevel gauge; an accurate try square and a high-quality combination square (you could go with one or the other at the beginning -- the combination square is more versatile).
Drilling tools: a good "egg-beater" hand drill (get an old Miller's Falls or old Stanley, etc); a good brace (again, get an old Miller's Falls or old Stanley, etc); a standard set of brad-point bits; perhaps a 32/4ths (32 quarters) set of Russell Jennings pattern auger bits for the brace.
Books: try these sites for books that you may find useful or interesting (you've already seen some of these recommendations):
http://www.astragalpress.com/
http://www.cambiumbooks.com/
http://www.woodworkerslibrary.com/
http://www.blackburnbooks.com/
And, of course: amazon.
Misc tools: a sharpening system (oil, water, or diamond stones); a couple of rasps and files (Nicholson #49 or #50, for example; Aurious are very nice, but BIG $$$); some hand screws and bar/pipe clamps big enough to fit your work (you'll never have enough clamps...); a flat and a round sole spokeshave; a good, solid work bench (buy or make yourself -- there are several threads discussing the virtues and disadvantages of either course of action), a shooting board (you'll have to make this yourself).
While it's by no means an all-inclusive list, there's not a lot that you can't do with a tool set similar to that listed above, and it's not too terribly expensive to set yourself up with, especially if you buy good quality older tools off that (in)famous auction site or from some of the old tool dealers. And, hand tools (except for the bench) have the advantage of not taking up very much room, either in use or for storage.
One last thing: buy the best quality tools you can afford, so you only have to buy them once......
Edited 4/11/2006 10:51 pm by pzgren
Hi, All,
I retired 14 months ago for the second time, and took over the garage for a shop. I had a small windfall of cash and bought a Jet Super Saw with sliding table that the local woodcraft store. I also bought a Powerematic 14" band saw, 6" Jet joiner, Delta disk/belt sander that were added to my Delta drill press, Dewalt sliding saw and Delta mini lathe. It was a great day when my old Shopsmith and Craftsman table saw went out the door. I recently got a Performax drum sander, which I've fallen in love with. I also acquired a Tormak wet grinder--it's great having really sharp hand tools. I also outfitted the shop with a Jet dust collector and Delta air filter. I wish I could have done this years ago so that I would have been a much better woodworker at age 73.
nscaleal
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