My first post here, I’m usually over at Breaktime. Go easy on me.
I was just given a Craftsman table saw model 103.22160 from the 50s. A King Seely model. Its and 8″ belt driven benchtop w/stand, fence, miter gauge and is in, well, fixable shape. No real rust, just maybe change the belt, clean it and get the tilt mechanism working.
I’m also a new owner of a fixerupper so I’m mostly planning on using this for many home repair projects and not furniture making. That also means I’ve got no money to spend on a real, new table saw.
My two questions are, is this saw going to be safe at all? Secondly, what, if anything, in the neighborhood of woodworking can I do with this?
I managed to make some very nice builtin shelves with a circular saw, router, and a lot of patience – so I figure this can’t be any worse unless its unsafe. Opinions?
Thanks!
Replies
That is a plain vanilla saw of decent quality but an unremarkable design. Its only real weak point being the fence which tended to go out of line and not square up when being locked. It is adequate for trim and furniture work, but it would be under sized for doing a lot of heavy ripping of 2x construction stock.
From a safety point of view, there is nothing about the saw that makes it uniquely better or worse than average, except that you need to take a moment when tightening the fence to make sure it is pushed against the front rail solidly. The guards, if you have them, are basically the same as you'll find on 95% of the small saws sold in the U.S. today, so buying a new saw won't be a safety upgrade.
John W.
There's no blade guard and according to the manual there never was. There's also no splitter or the like. Are these things that can be cheaply retrofitted into a saw? Although, I don't really want to throw money at something that's not gonna do for the long haul.Trim work is mainly what I got it for, so your news is excellent. Though ripping 2x6s would be nice. Thanks for the comments. Sounds like you know this particular saw.
My dad had that saw. It's a Craftsman "80", I believe. 3/4 hp motor that mounts on the stand, and slides as the arbor is tilted. One knob for both elevation and tilt. Switch on the motor itself - dicey for emergency stopping.
I have it in a 1952 Craftsman power tool catalog, which is probably the catalog my dad bought it from. I also found it on OWWM.
http://www.owwm.com/files/PDF/Craftsman/1951-00-05.pdf
It's on the cover, and on page 2 and 3. The motor slide arrangement is shown on page 3. All photos of the saw show a splitter and guard in place, though I haven't seen either in real life.
I don't think it's any more dangerous than any other table saw, but it's pretty small. I wouldn't put any money into it, but if you have the space, it's probably pretty handy for certain setups, like miter sled type cutting where you can just leave it set up for it.Be seeing you...
Bob,
This model saw was designed for a splitter and guard assembly, and most saws automatically came with one, but not apparently your model. A photo of a very similar model, a #103.22161, on the OWWM.com site shows a guard assembly, as do the catalogs from this period, but it was an accessory not included with the basic model. The difference in the last digit of the model number in the photo would indicate only very minor changes from your model saw.
Sears didn't include guards with their saws during the Korean War because of shortages of aluminum, but the saw was still designed for mounting a guard. The Korean War era machines came with a note that you could get the guard from Sears after the restrictions ended. I looked up the part sheet for your model, dated April 1952, which was during the war, and it shows a splitter mounting bracket, part #37418 that was part of the machine, but no splitter.
Typically the guard mounted on an extension that stuck out from the rear trunnion assembly. If the extension is still there, it would be possible to engineer attaching a guard from any number of other saws, but it would take some time. The same basic design for mounting the guard is still used today on virtually all contractor's style saws, but they are all 10" blade machines so you wouldn't be able to adapt a guard from one of them.
You can buy a new 10" Ryobi portable table saw, that has gotten good reviews, for just a couple of hundred dollars, so it wouldn't be worth putting a lot of time and money into this machine, being that is never going to be a great performer or especially valuable as a collectors item.
John W.
Edited 9/15/2005 6:09 pm ET by JohnWW
My Dad, a pretty fair amueter cabinetmaker, had the 9" version, in the 50's, and make some nice pieces on it. It is the saw I learned on. When the work was spsecial, we would change the standard blade to a hollow ground blade. I suspect these aren't around anymore.As another noted above, the fence does not automatically make itself parallel to the blade when moved, and I recall having to measure the distance of the blade form the fence, both at the front of the blade, and at the rear. A pinch can = kickback, to be avoided.Alan
http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com
In the 50's we used saws like that for all kinds of cutting. There wasn't much else available. It will rip 2x6's but not rapidly. Use a sharp rip blade for ripping.
Tom
Hi, Bob,
I am probably going to get ripped apart for saying this, but I would be very reticent to cut any timber long grain on a circular saw with no splitter or riving knife. I see Norm Abram running his saw all the time without one - I don't know where he gets his beautiful, straight grained timber from, but here in England we have a lot of hills, and it seems to me that if the board you have comes from one of these trees, then as soon as the saw starts cutting, the stresses begin to relieve in the timber, and the two halves close up onto the rear of the blade. I got a pretty fantastic bruise on my belly for being too lazy to put the splitter back on (I have to take it off to use the cross-cut sled), and I will NEVER do so again. Please be careful - we need all the growing woodworkers we can get.
Ozzy
Bob, I own that particular saw and use it every day. I have built an an outfeed table for it and two side extension tables. I retrofitted a homemade splitter for it (just a thin piece of metal mounted behind the blade). With a sharp blade it will rip most any wood I have tried up to 2-1/2" thick. I have also built a new fence for it similar to the bessy style. You can buy much larger, powerful saws, but for average hobby work it will serve you well. Enjoy the old iron......you can't buy saws like that any longer. Dale
>>Enjoy the old iron......you can't buy saws like that any longer.Now I'm a bit torn. I appreciate how solidly this thing is built. And it has the original exentsion wings with little or no rust. But the comments on fence problems -> kickback, and lack of splitter/riving knife are worrying me a bit. >>I have also built a new fence for it similar to the bessy styleI'm really a newbie to this. How would one build a bessy style fence?I'm going to look a bit into how much it costs to buy new power cords and a new belt and make sure it doesn't add up to too much.Its good to know that its still in use by some and can rip thick enough wood for my purposes.Thanks for all the comments.
Edited 9/16/2005 9:21 am ET by BobS
Bob, My Bessy style fence is just a simple channel mounted on the front of my saw with a homemade T-fence that clamps to the channel. I have installed an adhesive tape to read measurements. It is nothing extraordinary, but it will stay square and is adequate to rip long boards with. I guess the best thing is, it did not cost $200-300 to purchase as I had most of the scrap materials already. You can buy aftermarket fences that are ready to use with some assembly but that sometimes costs a bit. If you are not going to be real heavy into woodworking then you may just want to use the fence that you have, just make sure it is square to the table and saw blade and your cuts will come out fine. As far as the splitter....you can easily make a simple one that mounts behind your blade to prevent kickback.
Remeber that many here believe that without state of the art NEW machinery and $1,500 planes, you can't build anything.
Of course a 10" saw has more torque and depending on the motor size and belt type, is likely to do better.
However, if you look though the classic early years of the b&w Fine Woodworking, you will see any number of older 8" saws being used by people who were making things many of only aspire to.
As for kickback, I have never used riving knives, nor a blade guard on my saws, still have 10 fingers. If you are cutting 2x6 pine, you should be fine, oak however isn't going to be that easy. Forrest makes an 8" blade and running a thin kerf blade should help out on the power issues.
I have a 1930s Atlas/Craftsman 8" saw that has features todays saws can only dream about. Save your money and buy a tool you DON'T have rather than rushing out to replace the one you do.
I've got this same saw, also without a guard. It never had one, my Dad bought the saw new from Sears. I inherited it about twenty years ago and until about three years ago did all my work on it. Between Dad and I, we've built many pieces of furniture and several sets of cabinets with it. You should push in on the fence each time you reset it and it will square up and be OK. A modern blade sure helps the proformance though. My saw did come with a 1 HP motor. Two inch material is not a big problem for it, but you should go slow. As some of the others have said, mine comes in handy for odd setups and is a great backup for the larger saw.
KEN
Another vote of confidence in the machine. Thanks.I just got around to looking at the motor and starting to clean it up last night. The motor is only 1/3 hp which is probably on the small side of being useful. Still I'd imagine it would do trim.Thanks for the info on the fence adjustment.
Bobs,
By chance do you have a photo of the TS?
I've not ever attached a photo before. Here goes...
Excuse the chipmunk "pit of death" trap in the lower right corner.
I've got the same table saw sitting on the shelf in pieces. It was a great starter saw - just way to heavy to keep moving around a small shop. I like the idea of setting up a set of shaper bits on it someday.
Joe
p.s. here's the photos resized for the modemly challanged.
I have this same saw with a 1/2 horse motor. It has the 2 extention wings. It is stored upstairs in my shop now. I still use it occasionally. I have the Rockwell molding head installed on it.
This is all I had for years when I was younger. My neighbor gave it to me for something I built for him at the time.
As others have indicated, the fence is not very good. I would not put much money into it but it should get you by if used safely.
Garry
http://www.superwoodworks.com
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