I’m thinking about buying a 6″ jointer with a 48″ bed for about $750. I have one now but the bed is only 32″ and figured the longer bed would make it a lot easier to edge a long board. But lately I’ve been scrolling through these posts and notice that some people don’t even own a jointer and edge their boards by hand or some other way.
Is a 6″ jointer worth it? I know one of the biggest benefits of a jointer is planing the face true but a lot of boards are wider than 6″ anyway. What do I do when I have a 9″ wide board? I’ll still have to plane it by hand. Plus, I usually buy my lumber S2S. Do I really need to buy a jointer with a long bed if all I would really use it for is to joint long boards?
Replies
There's so much competition in the jointer market these days, for that money you should be able to get a 8" jointer, from Grizzly and maybe others. In fact, Grizlly has a very nice 8" parallelogram jointer, the G0490, at that price.
Consider yourself very lucky if you have a supply of reasonably-priced, dead-flat S2S lumber. Most of the S2S stuff I see for sale is not straight (either cupped or warped).
Ditto to what Barry said. If I hadn't found mine at a Jet scratch-n-dent place for $365, I would have bought a Grizzly. If you have $750 to spend, an 8" Grizzly would be something to consider for sure.
If you have a quality jointer, you might find yourself not buying S2S, but getting rough lumber and milling it yourself, thereby saving money and not being confined to what's available in S2S.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
$750 sounds way out of line for a 6"x 48" machine. $400 should buy that at many retailers. $750 should get you a good 8" jointer.
I find most 2S2 lumber isn't all that flat and still benefits from a pass on the jointer. I use mine constantly....step 1 for just about every project....Norm and David Marks have similar habits. Sometimes I need to rip a board down to fit, or I'll do some planer tricks to help flatten it. An 8" seems to be a happy medium in cost and function if you've got the room and money.
Edited 3/17/2006 7:48 am ET by scotty
I decided against a joiner - I think they're overated for a lot of home woodshops. Probably 90% of my needs are edge joining and I invested in a Joint-A-bility. It's fast, easy & gives perfect results with almost no learning curve. A carbide bit is the the only tooling I'll need plus no need for maintenance or adjustments. I stand it against the wall & it only takes floor space when I pull it out to use it.
I also built a planer sled to flatten boards & this will work on stock up to 12". On occasion I'll use scrub plane method.
I don't know how anybody gets by w/o a jointer. It's always my first step in milling project components.
I agree with FG about buying rough stock and cleaning it up yourself. I recently tried Niagara Lumber for 80 bf of maple. Much of it was humped or crooked. As it was s2s I had no material left to correct the problems.
I have a 6" Jet jointer. Very satisfied. I could use an 8" jointer but don't have room - but, what do I make that is 8" rather than 6". I just cut to 5 1/2" and glue-up 12", 18" or 24" table tops etc.
Jerry
"...what do I make that is 8" rather than 6"." Jerry, the other reason (and sometimes main reason) someone will choose an 8" jointer is to get the longer tables. They just aren't available on 6" machines.
That maple you got -- what a drag!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FGExcellent point. I forgot about that as my shop real estate and a longer jointer bed (though very desireable) would clash. Therefore, I've learned to live with what I've got.Jerry
"Therefore, I've learned to live with what I've got." I do that alot. :-)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I've always had a 6" jointer and cannot remember when I was hurting for width capacity. I think 90-percent of the jointer use (if not a bit more) is edge jointing so in most cases, I could do well with a 1" jointer.
I also would have problems with jointer beds much longer than those on my 6" Delta floor model. this machine seems just right for my needs and shop space
Now, with any kind of luck, I will make it through the day without the wife giving me a new project with 8"-wide stuff that needs face jointing.......Tom Hintz
Because there is always more to learn!
Thanks for the info guys... I'm looking at the 6" Powermatic that has a 54" long bed. It is true about S2S not being truly flat. Now I need to find a source for rough lumber.
mv
The number one source for problems in joinery and achieving the outcome you desire when working with wood is using lumber which was not prepared properly. Whether you joint wood with a machine, or a series of hand planes, one issue is critical. The wood HAS to be flattened first, and then the other side made parallel to it.
If you, or anybody else here, is buying stock from the source which has already been planed, there is a 95% chance that it was NOT flattened on a jointer first. This means that all of the bows, twists, and warps that were in the board from the drying process are still there. The planer simply follows the curves, and makes both sides parallel in the original bowed, twisted, and warped state.
If you get a 6" jointer, you are limited using this machine to only flattening boards that are 6" wide or less. By skipping the flattening step in preparing stock, you are just putting yourself at a major disadvantage. As you try to build furniture with M & T joinery, or dovetails, for example, you'll never get this twisted lumber to mate up well. In the long run, frustration sets in, and many times wins the day.
If you're only going to work with skinny stock, than the 6" model will be fine. However, if your stock comes wider, than you should have a wider jointer, or be prepared to flatten your stock by hand.
I've seen some advice here that the jointer is used for edge jointing 95% of the time, and that is simply bad advice. I have a 12" jointer, and it is used 50% of the time for flattening stock, and then, once the other side is parallel (using the planer), I edge joint to true up one edge.
If you begin buying your stock rough sawn, and preparing it properly yourself, instead of relying on the local supplier, who is only concerned with speed, than your woodworking will improve tremendously.
Jeff
Having the capacity to true up whatever width stock shows up is of course the ideal situation. However, it is not reality for most woodworkers who are dealing with budgets that put the brakes on larger purchases at least for the time being.
I have long advocated truing all sides of lumber and those articles remain some of the most popular on my site. However, there is a large contingent of woodworkers who have to deal with a smaller selection of machines and many of them on a less grand scale than many would like. As has been discussed already, some do not have the space to store, let alone use the aircraft carrier-sized jointers some have.
We all have to strike some level of balance between what we know we need and what we know we can have. Want, no matter how justified, does not add up to cash in sufficient quantities most of the time.
I probably do use my jointer for more face planing than I realize but for a lot of the glue ups I do for the projects I build, much of the lumber I get is flat enough and produces nice flat assemblies that can be trued up the rest of the way quickly with a sander or plane, tools most of us have at the moment.Tom Hintz
Because there is always more to learn!
Tom
A #7, #5, #4, and scrub plane don't take up much space in a shop, and cost far less than a jointer. From the sound of your post, you may be a teacher of woodworking. If not, forgive me. I've taught a few woodworkers, and the first thing I preach is, regardless of your budget, you must always work with properly prepared stock. PERIOD. Maybe your source for lumber is one of the 5% I was talking about, but almost all that I've seen make no effort at all to flatten stock before they plane it. I've had guys show up at my shop with lumber so crooked I can't believe somebody sold it to them.
I'm not suggesting that the guy go out and buy a 24" spherical head jointer with matching planer. I'm simply stating that a used 8" can easily be had for the 750 bucks mentioned, and a used 12" wouldn't be far off. Save the money and add to it later, and learn to work the lumber by hand. Not only will he develop the skills necessary to move ahead with his woodworking, but he might find out that if he's just gonna make small projects, that he may not need the jointer at all.
I will confess that I have a 12" jointer, but it's out of neccessity. I do this for a living, and don't enjoy flattening 200 bf of cherry by hand. I remember my first 6" jointer. It was a powermatic, and I only had it for 6 months. It was a wasted purchase, as I realized right away that I couldn't flatten half the stock available to me at the time with it. I had to be creative, not with the project, but how to prepare stock and put it back together for wider boards. I wish that I would have skipped the 6" step, and went for an 8" or 12" jointer immediately.
Jeff
Jeff,
I'd love it if everyone I deal with could have everything they need to properly prepare each piece of stock they use. The reality though is that many do not, at least initially. Jointers and planers are generally a bit down the road on the tool list in deference to budgetary constraints most hobby woodworkers have to deal with.
I agree that the best scenario is to have everything you need and to process every stick of wood that comes through the shop. I have the planes you mention but not the skill to use them properly which generally winds up creating worse stock than I began with. That may be due in part to my lack of enthusiasm over hand tools or just a general lack of skill in that area.
I think it is important to realize that there are lots of levels of woodworkers out there in terms of equipment, but all of them are intent on producing the best work they can. I have seen remarkable projects built with very basic tools along with some extraordinary efforts on the part of beginning woodworkers to overcome their limited machine inventory.
I have been watching the type of wood I get and finding a useable piece over 6" in width is rare. Usually, but the time I clean up the edges, I am either under 6" already or close enough that ripping it down and doing the glue up is not a big deal. I kind of like glued up pieces anyway, but most often that is out of necessity.
If I had the chance to get a large capacity jointer, and shop that could support it, I probably would get it. Until then, my 6" will have to do.Tom Hintz
Because there is always more to learn!
Tom
I don't know what to tell you. I believe that alot of people with varying degrees of interest AND tools come to this forum to find the best answers to their problems. Of course, they'll have to decide to what degree they heed advice. My contention is that once an individual works to develop the knowledge and skills, whether it be with machine or hand tools, that will improve their chances of having satisfactory results with their woodworking, then the passion for the art will only grow and grow.
I see too many people get frustrated trying to work wood and just drop it as a hobby, simply because they hadn't learned or weren't shown the easy step around their problem. There are few things worse for a beginning woodworker than to try and build a fireplace mantel for his/her home, and try to use a piece of crown that has a 30° corkscrew in it. They'll never get the miters tight, and they'll never want to do it again!
In my opinion, knowledge is power. The more we learn from each other, the better off we'll be. I don't think it's wise to accept shortcomings with one's situation without looking for an alternative solution that will yield the proper results, whether it be with machines or shop space. If the board will fit on the bench, a plane will flatten it. Work those skills until they become second nature. One week's investment in time will yield the honed skills anyone will need to flatten a board by hand. Then, later, when the money and space are there, get the dang jointer to make life easier.
I know a few people who have large shops filled with expensive equipment. They have no idea how to make anything with them, but they go out to their "shops" with their buddies and drink beer. Pretty funny. I call them collectors.
Jeff
BTW It was nice chatting with you over this subject. Good luck.
Edited 3/21/2006 12:09 pm ET by JeffHeath
I'm not against the larger machines. Like I said, given the room and budget, I'd have them also. What I don't want is people getting the impression that unless they have the big capacity in their shops, they can't be real woodworkers or produce top notch projects. They can, and do regularly. I get email from a guy in California that works on the balcony of his apartment with a little Ryobi benchtop saw, a jigsaw and drill/driver and produces some of the most cabinets and tables I've seen.
The point is that having big tools is nice and can make things easier but there are lots and lots of folks doing great work with smaller equipment and we do not need to discourage the rather large segment of the woodworking world that buys and uses machines and tools that are somewhat smaller than what others use.
The craftsmanship comes from the woodworker. Bigger tools do not make them more creative or smarter. I suspect a good portion of those who use medium to smaller tools right now will eventually move to bigger versions as circumstances allow. When they do, they will not be better woodworkers, just better equipped.Tom Hintz
Because there is always more to learn!
I'm working on a project and all my stock is wider than my jointer. So I'll flatten with hand tools, and just use the jointer for edge jointing... so not everyone using the jointer just for edge jointing is forgoing stock prep. :)My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
John
If you read my last post, you'll see that that is exactly what I was trying to say.
Jeff
For $750 yu can find a nice big OLD jointer. Paid $300 for my 16" Sidney. Look for a used machine.
DJK
I would purchase the Grizzly 8" for that money. I am a professional woodworked an I have been getting by with a 6" Delta for years but it gets tough with longer boards - the machine tends to tip a bit - I just ordered the Grizzly 8" for the extra length of the bed and additional power. The only drawback for a homeshop would be the 8" uses 220v. If you are interested I will be selling my 6" within in a week - its in good condition and a very nice machine.
I did exactly the same thing... had a 6" jointer because I had only 110 power, added 220, sold my 6" jointer here to a Knots guy, and bought a Grizzly 8". :)My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
First off I'm not from Texas and dislike there philosophy most of the time, but in the case of jointers bigger is better unless you're 100% positive that you'll never want to face a board wider than 6".
You've obviousley decided that you don't want to do everything with hand planes so we can rationally exclude that option from the discussion.
Most woodworkers assume that you should always use boards 6" or less in width and glue them up to make wider pieces. This is the preferred method for most lumber. However, one exception is with quarter sawn lumber which is more stable. When working with quarter sawn lumber it is perfectly acceptable to use wider lumber.
Width asside, most 8" jointers have longer tables. A longer table gives you more accurate results for long or tall projects like bed head and foot boards or entertainment center and armoir cabinants, etc. A 6" will work good enough for the projects but the longer table on most 8" jointers will be easier and more accurate to use.
As mentioned a surface planer and sled can work but depending on your patience that is a relative slow and unproductive option.
I purchased a 6" jointer first and I'm happy with it about 70% of the time. The rest of the time I'm wishing I had a larger jointer and someday I will.
I second many of the post that said $750 is high for a six inch jointer. However, Power Matic is considered a good brand, but I would consider a grizzley 8" machine for near the same price.
musick,
I was thinking about either buying a 6" Powermatic with a long bed or a 8" Grizzly. The problem is getting the thing down in my basement. They're both pretty damn heavy which is why I haven't bought anything as of yet. I've heard bad things about Grizzly's quality so that's why it wasn't my first choice but it seems a lot of guys out here recommend them so maybe i'll take another look. I just don't want to go out and spend good money on something only to wish I should have gotten something better. Thanks for all the posts guys...
Edited 3/21/2006 2:44 pm ET by mvflaim
I wouldn't recommend all of Grizley's toold. However, there several of there jointers have received good reviews in various trade publications. I've used one of there 8" models. Didn't have a chance to thouroughly check it out but it did the job that day and I could tell the fence was straighter than my Bridgewood 6" which is visibly twisted, grrrr.I can sympathize on the weight. I just moved, again, moved a 24" bandsaw, old Oliver lathe, and 10" cabinent saw along with many other things. Didn't have any stairs though.Good Luck!!!
"First off I'm not from Texas and dislike there philosophy most of the time, but in the case of jointers bigger is better "
Now that's funny!!! ROTFLAMO!!!!
I resemble that remark!! I am from Texas LOL:)))))
Just needed to give ya a ribbin on that one.
MK
"El planeamiento pobre en su parte no constituye una emergencia en mi parte"
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