Replies

1. 
   flairwoodworks | Feb 05, 2009 10:52pm | #1

   Of course.

   Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
   (soon to be www.flairwoodworks.com)

    - Success is not the key to happines.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

2. 
   Buster2000 | Feb 05, 2009 10:57pm | #2

   Why not?

1. 
   philip_r | Feb 05, 2009 11:13pm | #3

   20" if you can swing it:0)

   In all seriousness, the difference is like going from a $200 table saw to a full cabinet saw.  It is a huge jump in class.  I quickly got tired of having to rip boards in half and having to glue them back together just to get the width I needed.

   Try looking on Craigslist for 6" jointers and you'll find a bunch of people selling them because they want to get something bigger.  Try looking for an 8" and you'll be lucky if you can find any.

3. 
   hammer1 | Feb 06, 2009 01:09am | #4

   One of the more important parts of surfacing lumber is getting it flat. A planer won't do that. They only smooth the surfaces. The jointer is the machine that can flatten as well as straighten. If you can choose relatively flat lumber or can cut longer stock shorter to get flat pieces, the jointer isn't as necessary for the milling process. An 8" jointer isn't going to flatten 13" wide stock and most are not going to want to spend the money for a jointer as wide as a planer. When faced with the dilemma of flattening wide stock, there are other ways to do it besides the jointer.

   An 8" jointer has longer beds than a 6". Since straightening edges is a primary function of a jointer, longer beds allow you to edge longer pieces of lumber. There are also other ways to accomplish this task. You can make extension tables for a small jointer that will allow handling of long stock. 8" jointers are heavier pieces of equipment, usually with larger motors. Along with bigger comes more expense, not only in initial cost but in energy and replacement cutters.

   All in all, it doesn't make any difference which you choose to spend your money on. If a tool you own can't handle what you want to do, you go to plan B, C or D. As soon as you get a 30" jointer and planer, you'll want to surface stock that's 36" wide.

   I'm a fulltimer. In the past I had a large shop equipped with 3 phase and two 16" jointers. Now I'm in a small shop with an inexpensive 6" import. I have to be a little more creative than just pushing a button. Even though I've been used to having large equipment, working with the 6" doesn't cramp my style. If I was still doing production work it would be a different story but I don't miss the monsters with what I do now.

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

1. 
   Rich14 | Feb 06, 2009 02:51am | #6

   hammer,"Since straightening edges is a primary function of a jointer, longer beds allow you to edge longer pieces of lumber."That is completely untrue.Unfortunately it often gets repeated as "truth" about jointer bed length. If it were true, how could a hand jointer plane, which might be only 18" to 24" achieve a true, straight edge on a board many times that length? And if you're wondering, it can produce a perfectly straight edge, on any length of board, as long as its sole is perfectly straight.A board face or edge, surfaced with a joiner or joiner plane will assume the shape of the joiner bed or plane sole, becoming closer and closer to the tool's shape as cutting proceeds. The only difference, the longer the bed, or sole, the faster the final, straight condition will happen. The same amount of material will be removed in either case.Most people, used to the characteristics of joiners sold in this country, are surprised at how much shorter many European joiners seem. Those machines have no problems doing the job.While the longer bed on an 8" jointer theoretically will straighten a given board faster than the shorter bed of a 6", the difference in performance will not be noticeable in most cases.Rich

1. 
   flairwoodworks | Feb 06, 2009 03:16am | #7

   Rich/Hammer,Perhaps, "longer beds allow you to edge longer pieces of lumber WITH GREATER EASE" would be more accurate. Let's not forget about the faces too, as that is really where the jointer (wider ones especially) really shines.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)

    - Success is not the key to happines.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

1. 
   Rich14 | Feb 06, 2009 03:30am | #8

   Chris,Of course. The difference in width is the heart of the matter.And that's pretty much it.The increased length of the wider machine is a logical but not absolutely necessary "byproduct" of the greater width. And it has little to do with the machine's functioning.Rich

2. 
   hammer1 | Feb 06, 2009 08:48am | #10

   You can't equate a hand jointer plane with a stationary jointer. You are moving the tool on one and the lumber on the other. They may be used for the same task but in a very different way. I'd like to see someone straighten out a 2x12x14' red oak stair stringer on a stubby stationary jointer.I would also like to say, I don't give a fat rats patoot how they do it in Europe. Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

   Edited 2/6/2009 12:53 am ET by hammer1

1. 
   Rich14 | Feb 06, 2009 02:16pm | #11

   "I would also like to say, I don't give a fat rats patoot how they do it in Europe. "Who cares? Is that supposed to be informative? Enlightening? Intimidating? How your sour disposition contributes to this is beyond me. Or is the the standard way you react when told you're wrong? My comment was meant to illustrate that there are machines whose design SEEMS different from ones we are used to, that function exactly the same. The fact remains that you don't understand the mechanics of the straightening/flattening action of a plane or joiner.Whether one moves the tool to the work or the work to the tool makes no difference. The actions of a machine joiner and a hand plane (in the context we've been discussing) are equivalent.Rich

   Edited 2/6/2009 6:22 am ET by Rich14

1. 
   hammer1 | Feb 06, 2009 03:05pm | #12

   It's just a joke, Rich. You are the one on a high horse. I may not understand the mechanics of flattening and straightening like you do but I do it all the time. Anyone that has learned to use a jointer plane knows there's a lot more to getting the edge straight than just passing the plane over. It's very easy to tail off at the start of the cut or on the finish, not to mention keeping things square. A hand plane responds to the users pressure and technique.If a bend, hump, bow or anything else hangs off beyond the surface of the table of the jointer, and then rides up as you push the board ahead, it will change the progress and intended outcome of the cut. If the work is large, long and heavy enough, you won't be able to hold it on a short table without some assistance. Struggling with a work piece on a spinning cutter is something to avoid. There is a reason jointers have long beds. You may chalk it up to ease or speed but isn't that what it's about? There isn't an offset in a jointer plane like there is between the infeed and outfeed tables on a stationary jointer. Maybe you are just talking from theory and not experience. I'll take as long a bed as I can get. If my jointer isn't long enough, I'll add extension tables. A planer would be able to straighten or flatten a board if what you claim is true, and we all know that doesn't happen.
   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

2. 
   Rich14 | Feb 06, 2009 03:34pm | #13

   hammer,Apologies, I didn't get the joke. (What could you possibly have against Europeans?)But confusing the problems in learning the techniques of using a hand plane with the mechanics and geometries involved in passing a straight-soled/bedded cutting tool over a curved work piece doesn't change the realities of what is happening between the tool and the wood.The wood will assume the shape of the tool. That's it.If the tool is straight, the wood will become straight. (also, if the tool is curved, the wood will assume that shape - but that's another story for another day)Rich

3. 
   hammer1 | Feb 06, 2009 04:10pm | #14

   I don't have anything against Europeans. Now those Asians..just kidding. I'm a custom motorcycle builder in my free time. At shows we always hear about how they do it in California. The standard response is, we don't give a ... Hot rod builders have it on a bumper sticker. We also hear how great short fences on Euro table saws are for ripping. They can have them. I want to watch the edge of my work stay tight to the fence all the way through the cut, past the blade and on to the outfeed table. Of course, I grew up with a long fence, and I have used short fences. I still disagree that the lumber will take the shape of the tool. You can run a hand plane end to end on a long, gradual, arched piece of lumber all day and it will still be arched. In such a situation you aren't going to start the process on the end of the board, you have to concentrate on removing the high spot. I have a lot of years with a jointer plane in my hand and it's not automatic. It can be quite a challenge. My coffee is gone, I've got to go make some drawer sides and get off the computer. I'll be using my power jointer. Noisy contraption that it is. Talk with you later.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

4. 
   philip | Feb 06, 2009 01:11am | #5

   What is the table length comparison , what type of woodworking do you do and are full time?

   
   

   ---

   Edited 2/5/2009 5:12 pm by philip

5. 
   bones | Feb 06, 2009 05:20am | #9

   My planer is 12.  I had a 6" for eons.   The biggest pain was a lot of boards are wider that 6".  I would have to rip to dimension I could handle.  What a PIA.  I upgraded to a 12" and holy canoly what a difference.  I would think and 8" would get most of your stock but the few 10" plus (not knowing what you work with). I love being able to do the whole plank at a time.  Go for the biggest you can afford. 

   Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases:
   If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
   And if it stops moving, subsidize it.