Replies

1. 
   Midnight | Dec 01, 2006 05:06am | #1

   the suction's caused by surface tension between the two (nearly) perfectly flat surfaces. If this is for polishing the back of plane blades (N.B. NOT chisel blades) then try David Charlesworth's "ruler trick".

   No suction and it'll polish the business end of the blade in a couple of passes.

   Mike Wallace

   Stay safe....Have fun

1. 
   alanplanesaw | Dec 01, 2006 05:17am | #2

   Mike,

   Please help me understand:  What does (N.B. NOT chisel blades) mean?   And, what is the ruler trick?

   Alan - planesaw

1. 
   Midnight | Dec 01, 2006 05:52am | #3

   this is one of these "if ya saw the video, you'd understand instantly" kinda moments...

   however...

   the ruler trick is a way to"cheat" when polishing the back of a plane blade, doing so by focusing the effort right at the tip of the bevel rather than most of the back of the blade. This can take your blade to full a mirror finish in seconds rather than hours when flattening the entire back. To use the ruler trick, you wet the stone as normal, work up a slurry before placing a small (6" steel is perfect) ruler lengthways along one edge of the stone, pressing it into the slurry so that the surface tension locks it in place.

   To polish, you hone across the width of the stone working side to side, starting initially with the bevel overhanging the edge somewhat with the back of the blade resting on the ruler. The polishing action merely draws the blade back onto the stone; you lift the bevel clear of the stone to return it to a slight overhang before repeating, gradually working down the length of the edge to even out the wear on the stone a bit.

   You don't want to use this method to flatten the backs of chisels because the action creates a micro back-bevel on the blade. Insignificant on a plane blade (if anything, it helps retain the sharpness of the blade a wee bit longer)  but detramental to an accurate cut with a chisel.

   Your best bet is to see this for yourself by getting a copy of the video or DVD; this, and so much more are explained far better than I ever could. You'll find them here..

   http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1320

   look for Hand Tool Techniques Part 1: Plane SharpeningDavid CharlesworthMike Wallace

   Stay safe....Have fun

2. 
   BG | Dec 01, 2006 01:57pm | #4

   Don,
   Snipets of David Charlesworth's DVDs used to be on http://www.thewoodworkingchannel.com they'll probably run them again, but I'm buying the set because they are fabulous.
   David produces a very slight slurry with the stone...just enough to free up the trapped cutting material. Your probably creating a bit too much slurry.

3. 
   DonStephan | Dec 02, 2006 04:38am | #5

   Yes, title should have referred to a 6000 stone...

   Believe it or not, I can't even get half way down the surface of the stone on the first pass with the nagura before the suction is so great I can't move the nagura. When the suction is this great trying to hone the back of a blade can't get anything done. Either stop every 4 or 5 strokes, pry the blade off the stone, add some water, ..., or one gets so frustrated that try to force the blade to move, which of course will lift the wrong end of the blade and dull the edge. ...

   I've watched the Cosman and Charlsworth videos and don't see ANY suction when they are working. If one chooses to use the "ruler trick" that will work around the suction problem for plane blades, but not for the nagura stone (can't work up any paste) and not for chisels. I was ready to play "smash the *&^% stone" this afternoon but needed sharp blade to continue working. And as both the mentioned videos point out, have to polish the back every time the chisel or plane blade sharpened to remove the wire edge.

   At one point, tried soaking the 6000 stone for 5 minutes to see if that would help. Didn't.

   Did I just get a bad stone from Japan Woodworker?

1. 
   ChrisB | Dec 02, 2006 05:41am | #6

   Try tilting the nagura onto an edge instead of flat nagura on flat stone. Also use plenty of water. All you need is a little discolored water from the nagura, not mud.

   When I polish the backs of my plane blades I get lots of sticking too. More water helps.

    

   Chris

4. 
   JeffHeath | Dec 02, 2006 07:29pm | #7

   Don

   Add more water, and your problem will be solved. 

   Jeff

5. 
   DonStephan | Jan 14, 2007 10:29pm | #8

   The supplier suggested soaking the 6000 grit stone for an hour to saturate, and that pretty much put an end to the suction problem. Supplier confirmed the rumor I had heard that 6000 stones should not be stored in water, so when honing need suddenly arises the stone might have to be used fairly dry. Waiting 5-10 minutes for it so absorb some water helps reduce suctioning, and extra water on the surface helps with the nagura in those instances. If a better organizer I would always think to dunk the 6000 stone alongside the 800 and 1200 in the water when preparing for any planing or chiseling ...

   Thanks for all the suggestions and information.