I’m trying to decide whether or not to get a biscut joiner. I know its not really necessary but maybe some of you could tell me if its worth it.
I normally build furniture but more and more I have been working on built-ins and cabinets. My current project is a built-in bookshelf that is three feet wide and seven feet tall. I was thinking it would be quite nice to align it to the case with biscuts. I am also thinking forward to the face frame kitchen cabinets I will be building for my kitchen next spring.
I’m primarily looking to get a good deal on ebay or something. If I find one is it worth it? Do any of you find yourselves using them more than you thought?
Replies
I have an Elu bj, of the type that plunges a saw blade in an arc, I think De Walt make it still. If you are going to spend money, look at these.
Not only do you get a joiner but it will act as a small circular saw, cutting accurate rebates, cutting square holes, trimming in-situ panels, the bottoms of doors and many more jobs. It will not make bread but thats bearable.
I have one of those Mufti.
You are the first person I have met who has one too.
Brilliant I agree.
Its something to do with our generation, discerning yet modest with an eye for quality and value.
Just so.
How would one make the carcus fo kitchens without one,face frames went out 20 years ago here.
Can't believe I spelt that carcus when of course it should be carcass.
I bought the Porter Cable 557 -- probably four years ago. I bought it just before I also bought a Kreg pocket hole kit.
I've used the kreg kit till the bit wore out, and I've even lost a piece or two from the kit.
And the bisquit joiner case is dusty.
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
I bought my Kreg jig from the maker, the first year they came out, at the annual WW'er show. When attending subsequent shows, I always make it a point to stop at their booth and see what they have come-up with.
One year, after the demo was finished, they took questions from the gathered throng; and a guy asked about sharpening the drill bit.
Their response was that if someone brought their dulled bit to the show, they would even-exchange it for a newly sharpened one.
It's been a while since, but the drillbit carries easily to the show.Arlington, Texas (The dash in Dallas-Fort Worth)
Practice...'till you can do it right the first time.
Consider the DowelMax instead of the biscuit. I find it more accurate and easier to use. Moreover, it is much more versatile. When used instead of a biscuit the alignment is not only more accurate, but it provides a much stronger addition to the joint than the biscuit. I have been making all of my joints with it recently.
I have a PC biscuit joiner and generally only use it when I need extra help aligning glueups, such as a long board that's not entirely flat, or lots of smaller boards glued at the same time (think butcher block). It's also handy for architectural stuff like pre-assembling door/window casings. I use it once or twice a year.
As for face frames, the pocket screw jig, with the related glueup clamps, is a no-brainer. If you do this with biscuits, you'll have to biscuit, glue and clamp each face frame from all directions and wait for it to dry. If you have a lot of space and time, that's fine. But with pocket screws, you drill, glue, screw & you're done. Mount it right away if you want.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
I have got one a cheep one from harbor fright it works but if I had the money I would by a festool domino (msp) It appears to be far superior to the bisket
In my opinion the biscut joiner is a valuable tool. I have the first PC model that came out years back and it still works fine. That said, its use is limited. I mainly use it for three things.
Attaching face frames to the case. Size your face frame 1/16 proud on each side. Cut your biscut slots on the inside face of the frame. Next cut your biscut slots on the edge of the box using a 1/16 spacer between your fence and the stock. Glue and clamp the frame to the box. When it's dry, use a flush trim router bit to remove the 1/16, and you have a very strong and perfect attachment without visable fasteners.
Glue ups. As a previous reply stated, with long or multiple joint glue-ups, use biscuts to keep everything aligned as you work through the process. Just be sure you know where your end cuts will be so you don't cut through and expose a biscut when you mill the glue up to final size. (Um or, errr, so I hear. I've never um actually done this, you see, but I hear it looks ugly, honest.)
Miters. On end grain miters, in addition to helping with alignment, a biscut here really ads strength to the joint. Not as much as a spline or a floating/loose tenon, but I find it sufficient for the vast majority of cases. On long grain miters, the biscuits don't add much in the way of strength, but sure help with alignment during glue up.
As for pocket hole screws. I could not agree more with the other posts. Great for assembling face frames. If your cuts are square, the joints square everything up as you assemble, since you are effectively clamping one joint at a time with the screws. With biscuits, it's harder, messier, takes longer, and the clamping pressure can torque the thing out of square easily if everything isn't perfect. Also, unless you have fairly wide frame members, the width of the biscut slot can cause the bisquit to show when done.
I think a biscut joiner would be a good addition to any shop.
Frank
Its like anything else Its a tool for a specific use. I have the PC and like it. Do I use it a lot no, but then I don't glue up lots of panels. It is nice though when I do. It's definately not a tool I regret buying, and I do have those.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Thanks you guys. I think I'll get one. I do use pocket screws for assembling face frames and I like the idea of using the biscuts to align the face frame to the case. I don't have any intention on using biscuts for "joinery" but the ease of aligning things in many applications has sold me. Agian I know its not necessary but why not.
I've looked at reviews on FWW and amazon and I'm torn between the PC557 and the Dewalt. I know that they both have their pros and cons but I was so damn pissed at my last PC tool (a circular saw) that I got rid of it. I know Dewalt can be hit or miss on precision tools as well but I do like the fact that you can adjust the alingnment of the blade to the fence if it is off. Lamello is out of the question because of my budget for this type of tool. Any suggestions/opinions?
I have the Dewalt. I bought it when it first came out. It has a place in some of my projects. It is not the be all end all tool. But I do use it, and at times I have been very glad to have it. If it were to die I would want another one.
As far as biscuit joiners are concerned, I have both the Dewalt and the PC, and I would vote for PC. But I also concur with Hastings that you should at least consider the new Festool Domino, since it can be used as an alignment tool (like the biscuit joiners), but more importantly, it can also be used for joinery.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I love mine, it is the second generation P-C. It is about all I use for face frames. I never really liked the pocket screw idea.
I have the Dewalt biscut jointer and it has worked well for me,when I got mine the blade was just a little bit out of parallel to the base but that was easy to adjust. If you have the money check out the Lamellos brand they are very nice Norm uses this one on his show a lot. Of course you could go with the Festol tenon machine (just starting trouble:)) which looks like a neat alternative.
Troy
gcg:
If you have not already taken the plunge, I urge you to consider the Festool Domino. It's a relatively new product to the US. Even using the "F" word can cause apoplexy, but just take a look.
I use it to make face frames and then I use three or four "tenons" or "dominoes" on the top rail to hold the frame to the carcass and then work round the case with pocket screws. I glue the tenons into the frame and then make a wider slot in the carcass, this gives some side-to-side movement for final adjustment. You could put the dominoes all the way round too. Speed, repeatability and portability are particular benefits
In addition to getting the benefits of the biscuit jointer, you have a really neat loose tenon machine, that will give you options and flexibility in the future. Most Domino owners find that they no longer need or use their biscuit machines.
Now the downside! Yes it's expensive (comparable to a Lamello), though the consumables (dominoes) are very reasonable. Although it looks like a biscuit jointer, it takes a little practice to get good results. Many users have complained of poor edge alignment, only to find that they have not been using it correctly. Another problem is with initial adjustment. Mine was off and needed to be adjusted. The tenon sizes are limited so if you need larger tenons, it won't help you.
You might want to check out the message boards and certainly visit the Festool Owners Group, where you will find a good set of comments.
At the end of the day, you might well decide it's not for you, but at least if you see one later, you won't say, "I wish I had considered it".
Hastings
Thanks for the tip. I have looked at the domino and read up on it. I'm very impressed. I recently bought the Festool 55 Circular saw and I am amazed. Its everything and more it was made up to be and has make the last couple projects I used sheet goods in a breeze.Unfortunately the Domino is not in the budget and won't be for a little while but it is on my list. The Biscut joiner is a bit of a bandaid but like I said I'm not really intending it for joinery.
My vote is for the PC-557. I own it, and the brother has the Dewalt, and I have used his a bit. I like the fence on the PC better, and the fact it does the ff biscuits.
I bought a refurbished Dewalt on Amazon for $129. After alignment (fence & base) it now works great. I use it primarily for laminating up panels. I can now mill my stock to thickness and laminate. Quick touch with a belt sander and 6" orbital and that's it. I find it really helps keep things aligned during glue up. The key is understanding how to align it and to register the fence accurately when cutting the slots. I don't use the base for registration. I also use it for attaching exposed cupboard ends.
Note: I would have gone with the PC if it wasn't for the deal on the Dewalt.
Cheers, Nathan
I have a PC that I never use. Actually I used it last month for the first time in a couple of years. They are a PITA to use. I use pocket screws for most every thing. If that isn'tgood enough I use dados. The Biscuit Joiner is good because it allows you to build things without spending a lot of time setting up machines for joinery, every thing is basicly a butt joint. However after you become experienced at setting up dados and blind dados they will be almost as fast with less errors and if you have a large job with a lot of the jame joints (kitchen cabinets for example) Dado joinery is a lot faster.
Pardon my spelling,
Mike
Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled