I’ve just started woodworking and made a few simple hard maple cutting boards for Christmas. I finished them with what seem to me to be a lot of mineral oil after I sanded them through 220 grit. I even sanded some of the mineral oil into the wood. The recipients and I were happy with the results. But since then my wife (one of the recipients) used her board and all of one side (not just where the cutting was done) and part of the other side have quickly gotten a good bit rougher than when I made them. Could I have used too little mineral oil and moisture is causing this? When I noticed it first I resanded through 220 and applied a lot more oil to both sides. But the same roughness recurred again after one use. Is this something that just happens, is not really a problem, and will only annoy me because the smooth finish I put there is gone? Or is there some way to keep this from happening? Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
-steve2k
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Replies
Basically, it's something that just happens. Mineral oil really doesn't offer much protection against water absorption. Any finish that does prevent water absorption isn't something I'd want to put on a cutting board. A drying oil, like tung or boiled linseed oil, will stand up better than mineral oil. A penetrating finish like Watco might do even a little better. But no matter what, you'll still get some water absorption over time, and will have to sand and refinish. When you're refinishing, sand the wood well enough to smooth the wood and remove any surface stains, etc. Then wet the wood with a sponge, let it dry, and then sand lightly, just enough to remove the raised grain. Now apply the finish. If you follow that process, the roughness that occurs when water does eventually get into the wood should be less noticeable.
You can apply some paste wax on top of whatever oil finish you use. It won't stand up to cutting per se, but it will help protect against standing water. I use Town Talk Orange Wax for cutting boards and other food-related things, primarily because it smells good and doesn't have anything nasty in it.
-Steve
I hadn't tried wetting and resanding, but I will. And the wax sounds like a good plan. Is there much difference between how mineral oil behaves and how walnut oil behaves? The raised grain is not obvious to the eye, just to the hand. And I'm sure it seems more of an issue to me than to anyone else.
Walnut is a (slowly) drying oil, so in principle it should give a bit more protection than mineral oil, but I don't have any personal experience with it. I tried walnut oil once, a long time ago, and after waiting a week and seeing no sign of drying, I gave up on it and had it on a spinach salad instead....
I use tung (raw, non-polymerized) oil. It's non-toxic, easy to use, dries reasonably quickly (less than a week), and is decently water-resistant.
Note that with any nut oil (walnut, tung, etc.) there is the possibility of an allergic reaction, possibly a severe one, so you generally shouldn't use a nut oil on something that you give away or sell without labeling it.
-Steve
Edited 1/5/2008 11:59 pm ET by saschafer
Make sure the wax is approved for food use. Some waxes have chemicals in them that I would not want to put on food preparation products. Bees wax is fine.
Edited 1/6/2008 9:29 pm ET by mrbird90
Welcome to knots!
It is the moisture causing your "problem." The grains get raised, no matter what grit you sand it to first, when the surface fibers contact something wet whether it is water or juice from a lime or chicken breast goo. Before oiling, wipe your cutting board with a damp handtowel or rag and let it air dry. You will notice the familiar "fuzzy" feeling right away. Sand again with the last grit used and call it good enough. Proceed through your oiling process (I buy my mineral oil by the gallon @ tractor supply and bag the saturated board overnight somewhere warm).
Some find that scraping rather than sanding cuts down a lot of the raised grain but it depends on the grain of the wood -Figured wood are likely less fuzzy when sanded and straight grained woods are likely less fuzzy when scraped or planed.
I hadn't realized it took me six minutes to type that message...guess i should bone up on my keyboarding :)
Thanks! I'm looking forward to coming here on a regular basis. Do you actually immerse your boards in oil or just wipe on a lot and put it in a bag to keep the oil from getting on other things? You mentioned "warm." What effect, if any does temperature have on the results? My workroom has been quite cold during some of teh time the boards were in preparation. Thanks for the suggestion about scraping.
I have soaked in a basin (broiler pan for small cutting boards) and saturated and bagged (24x30x2 end grain butcher block). The bag seems to keep the mess down more than any other method. I use a generic brand of mineral oil from a hardware store or veterinary supply. It is used commonly on farms as a laxative. I don't use any other oil or finish for the reasons stated by other members...most of the ones I make I never see again, and I like it that way. I've heard about walnut oil and even tung oil being more trouble than it is worth with the drying process, but with mineral oil it is a hit every time. By warm I mean warmer than typical room temperature. If you soak in a room temperature then sometimes if the cutting board goes into a warmer environment (think of the granite countertop next to the range on thanksgiving afternoon) it will actually weep some of the oil back out to the surface. Not a big deal unless your grandma, and you don't want to set your perfect turkey dinner in puddle of laxative lol.
Have been building furniture/cabinets for 30 yrs. & have built at least a dozen chopping block tables for kitchen use, of native white ash, laminating black cherry strips as accents in the tops. Bases are sprayed with precat lacquer & tops oiled with grocery store bought mineral oil. Never had the "roughage" problem until I built & oiled one as a gift for Xmas this year. Was fine in the shop for a week after finishing, but after delivery (14hr. drive), top was as rough as an old bear's butt. Sanded lightly & applied a beeswax finish. Much better, but still not happy with it. I thought mineral oil was all the same - first time I used this brand & first time I had the problem.
What brands of mineral oils have worked well for you, and for anyone else on the list, in the past? And what densities? How much does the fuzziness problem depend on the type of wood and the grain?
Use quarter sawn wood
steve,
Call it cutting board patina. It's going to happen so ya gotta just let it be.
We've got one that we've had for more than 30 years and have never done anything as far as any finish at all. It's been thru the dishwasher countless times, the center on one side is hollowed and there's cracks on the ends.
I made it out of a hard maple board and just rounded the corners. Never put any finish on it, ever. It gets used every day.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
On my bowls and cutting boards a coat of Watco is applied. After that dries I sand it with Scotch brite or a sanding pad. For a final coat I apply a coat of Tried & True Linseed Oil beeswax. That holds up well.
If these are cutting boards to be used with food use mineral oil and be ready to re-apply it. Walnut oil will become rancid, as will other vegetable oils. I would never use wax on a food cutting board.
There is a mix of paraffin and mineral oil that will last longer than the oil alone, but with use, all will need to be reapplied.Gretchen
Walnut oil is not a vegetable oil and does NOT go rancid, it is in fact a drying oil, albeit a slow one. Peanut, Corn, Olive, Canola, etc. should be avoided. Personally prefer pure Tung oil, dries fairly quickly and offers a lot more protection than mineral oil.
You might want to "google" walnut oil rancid. There are a lot of article that claim it does go rancid.
A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
Under the right conditions, all vegetable oils can become rancid. But this is something that typically happens while the oils are sitting in a container on the shelf, not when they're applied as a wood finish. When properly applied (that is, not too heavily), drying oils will polymerize and form the final finish before the reactions that cause the noxious odors and flavors of rancidity can progress very far.
Supposedly, walnut oil is much less likely than linseed oil to become rancid. The characteristic strong odor of linseed oil is the result of it starting to become rancid. Tung oil also has a strong odor, and I assume that that odor, too, is a sign of rancidity, but I don't know for sure.
-Steve
Yes, see the Journal of the American Oil Chemists' Society, Jan, 5 2007.
Who woulda thunk it--there's a journal for everything.
-Steve ;-)
>> Supposedly, walnut oil is much less likely than linseed oil to become rancid. The characteristic strong odor of linseed oil is the result of it starting to become rancid. Tung oil also has a strong odor, and I assume that that odor, too, is a sign of rancidity, but I don't know for sure.I have never heard that. Linseed oil and tung oil are stable oils and never go rancid. Walnut oil supposedly never goes rancid but it can affect some very small group of folks who are allergic to nuts.Seems to me that there is no reason to even consider anything other than mineral oil or a mineral oil/paraffin or beeswax treatment. It's totally safe, easily applied and easily renewed and has no odor or potential health affects.Howie.........
If linseed and tung oils were truly stable, they would never dry....
Do a Google search on rancid linseed oil. You'll get a multitude of hits.
Freshly-pressed food-grade linseed oil (you can get it in capsules as "flaxseed oil" in the health supplements section of your supermarket) has a much milder odor than the linseed oil you can buy for finishing, although it's still kind of unpleasant (which I suppose is why they sell it in capsules).
-Steve
Where are you guys coming from about Linseed Oil. It never goes rancid at least as long as I have used it. Tried and True Finishes have several linseed oil finishes available. The one I use is linseed oil/beeswax on salad bowls and cutting boards. They are all food safe.The only thing with linseed oil is BE CAREFULL OF ANY RAGS!!! soak in water or best spread them out outside. Spotanous Combustion they can start a fire quickly.
"It never goes rancid at least as long as I have used it."
How do you know? What are your criteria for determining rancidity? As best as I can determine from my research, linseed oil (finishing grade) is already rancid by the time you get it. That's why it has such a strong smell.
-Steve
You are talking about apples and oranges with regard to food linseed oil and finishing oil. Why put that in.Gretchen
"You are talking about apples and oranges with regard to food linseed oil and finishing oil."
It's very amusing that you make that statement, since you were the one who asserted that walnut oil was an inappropriate finish based on your experience with food-grade walnut oil.
It's not apples and oranges. It might be McIntosh vs. Granny Smith, but it's still apples to apples. All the information I can find out there says that every vegetable-based oil, including walnut oil, but also linseed oil, tung oil, whatever, can become rancid. And if they do become rancid, they do it in the container, not in a dried film. Rancidification is a kind of oxidation reaction, and oxidation also occurs during drying. Once the oil has dried and polymerized, it is no longer subject to rancidification, because it is already oxidized.
If, while finishing your cutting board, you literally soak the wood in oil, so much so that the surface oil can subsequently dry and trap undried oil underneath, then you can very definitely get rancidity--in the undried oil. And you can get rancidity in your furniture if you finish it the same way. That's why the instructions always say to let the oil sit for fifteen minutes, and then wipe off the excess. That way, you let some oil soak into the wood, but not so much that you trap undried oil beneath the surface. It's the "If a little bit is good, more must be better" approach that gets you in trouble when finishing wood with oil (as I learned the hard way with tung oil some time ago).
-Steve
you're referring to boiled linseed oil. this has metallic driers, not what i'd refer to as 'food safe'.
for a cutting board the traditional finish is simply mineral oil. you could also leave it unfinished or use shellac. but b.l.o.? no way...
Expert since 10 am.
Edited 1/16/2008 6:34 pm ET by jackplane
Many boiled linseed oil products do have metalic driers and I am not dumb enough to put that on my work. For many years I used a Spencer Kellog boild lindseed and it was food safe. I mentioned a product called tried and true finishes check out their web site! http://www.triedandtruefinish.com! They are food safe, the owner has reproduced some of the old finishes.I suggest you do a little resarch before you condem a product. Another thing to keep in mind many finishes are no longer toxic after drying
Why do you think that BLO isn't safe to use on wood that will be in contact with food?
Yes, there are metallic driers, but after the BLO cures they are bound up in the cured material. The driers have to come from a specific list that has been determined not to leach excessively from cured material. All the clear finishes sold in the US must meet these requirements. Bob Flexner has written about this on several occasions.
If the manufacturers of the products thought there was a risk you'd see warnings all over the cans, just like you see on paper cups telling you that coffee is hot.
Believe me, as a cook, you keep walnut oil in the refrigerator or you have an expensive rancid salad oil. It is a nut oil then--from a tree.Gretchen
Gretchen is correct. Walnut oil will go rancid.
John I believe that Watco has a fair dose of Japan dryers in it so you may be adding cobalt to your food .Something I would look into!
What about salad bowl finish?
Rick
Rick,
Salad bowl finish is a gimmick. It is usually just thinned varnish. In many cases it is the same product the manufacturer sells in a different can as wiping varnish or danish oil.
All modern finishes are safe for food contact once they are cured.
Rob
Forget using oil of any kind. The fuzzy result will always reappear.
Use several coats of shellac. It is safe for food contact.
Expert since 10 am.
Shellac is a film finish that has no place on a cutting board. While the resin is not toxic, who wants to slice it into your chopped vegetables.
It is a commonly used food product.
Every time you eat m+m s, you're eating shellac. it is used in many candies and other foodstuffs.
Relax.Expert since 10 am.
The issue isn't about any sort of toxicity, it's an aesthetic issue. Not only does the finish contribute its little bits to the food, you end up with a board where you are constantly slicing into the finish, making unsightly cut lines that aren't appropriate for a film finish, and which would contribute to the breakdown of the finish. The film would emphasize the cuts. I'm not worried about the "bits", mostly about the appearance.
With an in-the-wood oil or oil/varnish, there isn't a film, and the knife marks are just in the wood, where they appear natural for a cutting board.
marks are marks, cuts in the board are cuts in the board.it is just a cutting board, not a queen anne highboy.
your first complaint was that it was unsuitable for consumption.that's apparently no longer an issue. now, it's that it's unsightly.
my cutting board has shellac. to each his own.Expert since 10 am.
"it is just a cutting board, not a queen anne highboy."
Exactly. Which is why I never bother with putting a finish of any kind on a cutting board. They're supposed to look like cutting boards.
To me, putting a finish on a cutting board is kind of like keeping a sawblade painted and shiny.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Shellac on a cutting board? Does it get washed? And has been said, you are cutting a finish. I have a cutting board counter that gets constant use. It has no finish on it because it is washed constantly and bleached often.
For the most durable and useful "finish" the mineral oil and paraffin is it. Used by butchers for ages.Gretchen
To me, putting a finish on a cutting board is kind of like keeping a sawblade painted and shiny.
I agree. I shellac all my saw blades. Much better than paint.
"I shellac all my saw blades."
I apply one coat of shellac, using a steel wool pad (watch out for the sharp corners on the carbide!), and let it dry. Then I wet sand with 600-grit wet-or-dry paper and naphtha to eliminate any raised grain (there usually isn't much). Depending on the level of color I'm trying to achieve, I next apply a glaze colored with TransTint dyes dissolved in WD-40. I usually use a mix of Cast Iron and High Carbon Steel, adjusting the color as I go, but when I want that old, patinated look, I'll add a few drops of Burned-on Pitch. I top-coat with at least seventeen sprayed-on coats of clear catalyzed lacquer, then rub out with Abralon pads (again, watch out for those sharp corners!) and Meguiar's.
-Steve
OH NO! You're doing it all wrong. NEVER use a steel wool pad on your blades! Small bits of mild steel break off the steel wool and get embedded in microscopic pores and fissures in the blade's surface, causing rust, and worse yet, interfere with the radio waves that the government uses to monitor all your thoughts.
Er, . . . I shouldn'ta said that.
Never mind.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
That wasn't a hoot, it was a HOWL!
Still LMAO,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
"I shellac all my saw blades."
I apply one coat of shellac, using a steel wool pad (watch out for the sharp corners on the carbide!), and let it dry. Then I wet sand with 600-grit wet-or-dry paper and naphtha to eliminate any raised grain (there usually isn't much). Depending on the level of color I'm trying to achieve, I next apply a glaze colored with TransTint dyes dissolved in WD-40. I usually use a mix of Cast Iron and High Carbon Steel, adjusting the color as I go, but when I want that old, patinated look, I'll add a few drops of Burned-on Pitch. I top-coat with at least seventeen sprayed-on coats of clear catalyzed lacquer, then rub out with Abralon pads (again, watch out for those sharp corners!) and Meguiar's.
The biggest advantage to that finishing system, which I also use of course, is that it is food safe, so one can use a table saw to slice vegetables, meat, etc. Persuading the wife to let me insert a saw in the kitchen island is taking a little longer than I expected.
"Persuading the wife to let me insert a saw in the kitchen island is taking a little longer than I expected."
Indeed. My biggest hurdle was the cast iron countertops. Deciding on an optimal location for the miter gauge slots and which brand of fence to install were both contentious issues, too.
-Steve
Careful, if Mel sees this he'll want to saw up some ham for bowls!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
"Persuading the wife to let me insert a saw in the kitchen island is taking a little longer than I expected."
Just another word of advice here. Don't use a Sawstop in the kitchen island. Cutting hotdogs & ham on a SS just doesn't work all that well. DAMHIKT.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
"Persuading the wife to let me insert a saw in the kitchen island is taking a little longer than I expected."
Just another word of advice here. Don't use a Sawstop in the kitchen island. Cutting hotdogs & ham on a SS just doesn't work all that well. DAMHIKT.
It just occurred to me that the Steel City table saw with the granite top would be just the ticket. I could grind off "Steel City" and replace it with "Cuisinart" and she'll never know. "Happy birthday honey, I got you a state of the art food slicer!"
"the Steel City table saw with the granite top would be just the ticket"
Granite top . . . .
Let me be the first to say, it's an honor to be in the (cyber)presence of an honest-to-God pure genius!
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
"Shellac is a film finish that has no place on a cutting board. While the resin is not toxic, who wants to slice it into your chopped vegetables. "
It's used commonly as a coating on pills so it won't hurt you, but I do agree it will not stand up and water will kill it quickly. Place a sweating glass on a shellac finish and see what it looks like.
Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Most of the time the ice in the sweating glass will melt, the glass warm up to room temperature, and the moisture on the shellac will evaporate with no impact on the shellac. This is particularly likely if the shellac is dewaxed.
And, as I said in my first post in this tread, while it is non-toxic, I don't want it in my onion soup, nor to I want to cut up a surface finish in that way. Both are aesethetic issues.
cutting board preparation
This is the first time I have ever shared this with anyone outside of my shop and it is the key to success for smooth cutting boards. Once I state it, most of you will want to slap yourselves for it's simplicity. I sell my boards across the states and they all come "pre-conditioned" and "pre-sealed". Forget about the pre-sealed part. The msot important aspect of a cutting board not turning rough after its first and many washes later is PRE-CONDITIONING it to the conditions it is about to endure..... WATER. Water raises grain! It's that simple! Spray your baords with water after 120 grit stage and proceed on through. The grain which will raise from water will be cut off through your sanding processes. After that it's a factor of wear.
M.SAW
That is why I always prefer to use a plastic cutting board, you don't have to suffer from such kind of things like roughness, etc.
Anovah ancient thread, with a few old Knotters in there whom I recall.
The thing about cutting boards is ... they're for cutting on. Why would you want a finish like that on a French polished writing table from 1789?
End-grain boards are best for the kitchen tasks, anyroadup. They're tougher but also have some ability to do away with the bacteria, with some woods being more effective than others. Some timbers contain chemicals that prevent rot and insect attack which (to a degree) also inhibit the proliferation of the bacteria.
Here is an extract from a blurb comparing end-grain boards to plastic boards:
"Wood does not kill off bacteria itself but absorbs them. The bacteria and nasties are absorbed into the surface of the wood, get trapped there and die. They do not get spread about because the wood just wont let go of them. In contrast, while plastics are initially non-absorbent they are prone to scoring and generally develop grooves more quickly than wooden boards. These scars soon develop in to an all inclusive hotel for bacteria. Even cleaning in a dishwasher starts to become less effective, and must be done more frequently with an old and scarred plastic chopping board".
Lataxe
Worrying about getting sick will kill you faster than actually getting sick. To your quandary, you could do what I do & stay away from building food-related projects. That's why there are stores. Unless you think you're cheating on your tools by buying instead of making.
Mikaol
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