A excellent URL about dust control
Vibart2 | Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/Index.html
I am not connected with this site in any way.
I just believe it has some of the best information available.
More good information available in one area than any other place on the web.
Edited 4/22/2003 11:20:09 AM ET by Bart
Replies
Actually the fellow has poor health and wants to blame someone.
Not only are you showing a lack of manners,
but that remark was rude and uncalled for.
Please try not to act like a boor.The proof is in the puddin'
Not only are you showing a lack of manners,
but that remark was rude and uncalled for
No, it's called the truth, thanks for posting it George!!!
What that inhallation of fine particles isn't a health hazard? Somehow given black lung and all the known effects of smoking I doubt that. Oh wait, those are lies too. I forgot, how sorry I am. Wonder how many people got sick coal mining before the dust was finally believed to be the issue?
Black Lung & Saw dust aren't in the same category!
Actually they are in the same category, saw dust: brown lung, organic fine dust as is also found in the cotton industry and causes similar damage to black lung. But we are talking major exposure for either. There was a thread about a year ago that discussed this.
Philip
As well as the steel industry, paint industry etc etc etc. Fine particles in your lungs simply aren't healthy, period. I'm shocked that anyone would argue otherwise. FWIW look at PPE, it's all CLEARLY labelled as meeting various standards as personal protective equipment I've yet to see a DC bag that says it meets ANY standard.
Let them think what they want and just think of fine dust as just a little more chlorine in the gene pool.
Philip
I figure Ill just throw in my own two coppers....
The one thing I dont like is dust in general.. You are prolly right that this dust collecter stuff is not gonna get all the dust. Hey its not a totally sealed environment so there is gonna be some stuff that gets out.... but there is a couple of things I do like about this system, and bills website....
1) my father has had both of his lungs scraped for whatever reasons(he had pneumonia as a child, he painted a few cars over his lifetime without proper protection, etc etc etc the list goes on and on, but he has always been a hobbyist in the stuff that today is considered hazardous stuff). Let me tell you about what was found in a hobbyist. Those doctors pulled out of him a 1/4" thick leather like substance that was wrapped totally around and choking his lungs. I dont want to have to go through that crap no matter what... You can say he was an exception to the rule about hobbyists, but I would rather be safe than sorry.
2) I hate sneezing.. I know I have allergies, and I know I have to wear dust masks etc to keep that stuff to a minimum, but if I can eliminate some of that crap flying around and past my breather/filters, then its a much better solution to me...
3) Those dust collectors Bill and many other people show on their sites are pretty comparable in quality(if not much better)to all the professionally made dust collectors etc, and MUCH MUCH more inexpensive. Lets face it, most Shop Vacs barely handle the job, and who wants to roll a friggin shop vac from machine to machine to machine... I like the fact that Bill's website is clear and concise and helps explain how to make your own system, and save some cash...
You can take it as pure crap, or you can take it at face value, as a resource for people who want a better solution. I may have missed it, but I didnt see Bill selling anything or whining about his sickness(there is a person on Bills site selling some of the stuff, but it was never a hard sell by any stretch of the imagination). Hell in most of the stuff I saw it was all a bunch of people using different sources for the different parts of their DC's.... Not to my recollection do I remember reading Bill piss and moaning about being sick. What I read was that due to his health problems, he needed to find a solution other than giving up the ghost(POINT FACT). Not a wah my life sucks blah blah blah... he just came up with a solution to solve his own problem and figured he would let other people share in all of his hard work.
Anyways, you can think I am a sheep following the flock, but I want a better solution for my dust problems. I like the Cyclone idea, and am prolly going to build my own... I also have a air filtering system hanging from my rafters, and let me tell you how fast I go through the filters on that system.... its disgusting to see the dust my Jet Air Filtration System (http://www.jettools.com/JETWood/Tools/AFS1000.html) is picking up.
Thanks for a nice site Bill, it is helping people!!
Thanks to all who continue to be so supportive! This dust collection stuff is far more serious than most realize. I know, I had to crash and burn before I came to.
Bill
I have been producing dust professionally in small shops for 18 years, and an avid dust collector for most of that time.
The technical information on dust collection can be specialized and technical, suggesting expensive solutions beyond the scope of most shops. The US standards are a political compromise between advocates and interest groups. Popular magazines are often equiptment advertisements.
This forum is unique, in that it offers peer reviewed technical information on dust control. The process can be informal and messy, but there are no lawyers having the final edit.
What is to be done about all the anger?
Taunton needs to step up to the plate. We need a web based video game at this site, where players are in a knights and armor seige, catapulting words at each other like rocks and offal. A mediator, at Taunton Press Inspiration for Hands-On Living, wearing horn rimmed glasses and a leather apron, would assign points, based on throw weight and bomb damage assessment. There would be no winners.
I had not intended to be do more than reads this tread but please consider this: my "other life" is managing trust funds establsihed to pay individuals injured by exposure to asbestosis. Part of this determination involves reviewing medical documentation as well as a having a knowledge of the current medical literature.
Asbestosis is a fiber. Cellulose is a fiber.
The latency period for one form of cancer which be caused from a single asbestosis fiber can be as long as 40 years. There is no scientifically agreed upon period of exposure resulting in asbstosis-relate diseases. We also are responsible for reviewing and paying claims for individuals who have never been occupationally exposure to asbestosis but who have contracted asbestosis-related pleural disease and some forms of cancer simply from their secondary exposure to occupational exposed persons, usually their spouses. The exposure standard for one Trust is as little as 3 hours of eposure.
My point, please think about what you are breathing and if you can avoid or minimize your exposure, isn't it the smart thing to do.
Doug
Doug,
Thank you!!!
Terry
We all agree that fine dust is bad to breath.
Breathing casual dust may be a more important health issue than breathing shop dust for most home wordworkers.
The issue is balancing the risk v. benefits.
If the benfit of building a dust collector versus buying an off the shelf dust collection system is 3 hours more productive life at a cost of 4 hours of constuction time, I have lost an hour of productive life by having a "better" dust collection system.
I am amazed that 7000 people die each day in the US and we spend billions because 3000 extra die in a one time event (Sept 11) and that we care that less than 10 die each day in a short war (Iraq). (Yes for those who die the death is important.)
The issue is balancing the risk v. benefits.
Unfortunately most times we don't know the personal risks until its to late.
I first got sensitized turning some Rose wood ever since then I can't sand or turn or do anything that causes dust that I'll end up breathing into my lungs.
Yes I have hay-fever but with proper precautions I have gone for years with just using Contact aspirin & vitamin C on a as needed bases. I wasn't bothered by sanding dust & the like until after turning the Rose wood.
So the risk can come on rather sudden. I cannot predict how or when & neither can anyone else.
What are the long term effects?
How long will it last?
Will it affect you later in life?
What will your ill health do to you & how will it make your loved ones suffer as they (maybe) watch you go down hill & do everything they can to take care of you?
There are a lot of things to think of here. It doesn't just effect you personally.
None of the above was said with any animosity toward anyone.
Jeff and Bart,Thank you both for your support. It helps lots!Jeff, I know you are right, but it is difficult to put up with this kind of nonsense after watching the same happen to my friend Jim Halbert that eventually drove him away from sharing.I personally thought I was doing a good job with my own dust collection and it was not until getting smacked upside the head that I came to, so not a surprise that so many others don't get it either.Bart, you really touch on what I think is the most serious part of woodworking today. Many of us have the means to now work with finer woods that are far more toxic. I personally suffered my first major asthma attack that took away my tools after a long session working on some cocobola that came out as one of the finest projects I have ever built. Knowing it was pretty dangerous wood to work, I stayed in my cartridge filtered mask, but still managed to stay coated in the fine dust. That dust proved beyond ugly and turned the outside of my "fine" dust bags a deep dark brown. Anyhow, it is well worth doing a little homework on each wood you use to see its potential impact on your health.bill
Doug,
I used to be responsible for dust collection in a cement plant. and involved in discussions with the EPA on the same.
I've been watching responses with interest and was going to post something along the lines of your post. Thankyou
I'll just go back to lurking now.
eddie
Last summer at my father's funeral, his batch plant operator came to visiting hours. I'd put him at around 70, and for probably the better part of 30 years he weighed and mixed from 50-1000 cu yds of concrete a day. When I'd visit the plant as a kid, I'd go up there to watch the whole process, and it wasn't the best environmentally safe place to be (but what did we know in the 60's). Forget Tonka trucks, I rode around in Oshkoshes! Surprisingly, Vern looked pretty gosh darn healthy despite cement dust exposure that would make an OSHA inspector go ballistic these days. Of course, like my dad, he had hearing aids in both ears. While we all may have differing tolerances to environmental pollutants, our ears are relatively similar in their response to years of industrail noise.
I'm currently widening part of my driveway by a couple of feet, and today I mixed up 10 bags of "home depot crete" to put in a couple of sections. That smell sure brought back a flood of memories. I'm sure my dad was laughing and/or shaking his head as I mixed them with a shovel in a big plastic trough. Hey, I had fun and it was *sorely* needed exercise.
GeorgeR and Major Wood,My medical problems are my business and something I choose to not discuss more than to say my lungs were injured in a Vietnam War related accident. Instead of choosing to die, I chose to live and contribute. Your PC is just one of the changes that I helped make. That injury required me to provide earlier than normal, but no extreme protections from wood dust. I'd like to think that with three engineering degrees and one pre-medicine degree my choices represented well-considered selections. Considered or not, they did not work. After over thirty years exposure these very protections left me in the hospital. Finding out my purchases differed far from advertising claims only added to my severe disappointment with uninformed sales people, but did not send me out to find someone to blame. I'm busy and choose carefully where I focus my time. I simply asked my many forum friends who claim and often demonstrate superior knowledge, went to their best, got my whole order worked out to the penny, and contacted a fellow engineer to go over my plan before pulling the trigger. He said, "Stop, go redo your homework!" He holds my respect. I did that homework. I found dust collection a sad mess that can seriously hurt fellow woodworkers and those close to them. I shared my findings with inexpensive, viable solutions on my Dust Collection and Cyclone Research web pages. Many of the vendors already give me huge support in terms of review, expertise, and feedback. None have ever accused me of being wrong, unfair, inaccurate, or using scare tactics. Many frankly have thanked me in person to help them get off this insane merry-go-round of trying to generate the most impressive advertising claims on what they also know is a serious health issue. As for your particular nonsense, don't bother to make yourselves right or wrong, I could care less for anyone who hides behind cutesy names, who are rude, and who try to appear knowledgeable when they are not. You may voice any opinion you want, but as with GeorgeR, when you slip too far off the mark lying about what is said on my pages and its value, those who do care will put things right, probably far less gently than me. Major Wood, you are a piece of work. I'm still laughing about your inferring not only I resemble a suspected pregnant lady killer, but also all other woodworkers are smoky bar birds. Major, you really do need to review your own logic and positions. Your discussion of my shared information was pure heresy of the worst order with no facts or basis.So fellows, take a hike, enjoy a beautiful day, but contribute positively because lying in the hospital and wondering if this is it, is not a lot of fun.bill pentz
Bill:
Thank you for sharing your information with those of us that care about our health. Those that care will heed the advice, those that don't -- well that's their choice.
Roger
Roger,
So right you are. Thanks for the support!
bill
bill ---
You wrote:
"You may voice any opinion you want, but as with GeorgeR, when you slip too far off the mark lying about what is said on my pages and its value, those who do care will put things right, probably far less gently than me."
I have never made a comment about what was or is said on your pages.
As far as your health, you brought it up.
----
George,From: GeorgeR &nbs;&nbs;&nbs;&nbs;&nbs;&nbs;&nbs;&nbs; Apr-30 8:21 pm post (31 of 32) - 11839.31 in reply to 11839.27To: bill pentz bill --- You wrote: "You may voice any opinion you want, but as with GeorgeR, when you slip too far off the mark lying about what is said on my pages and its value, those who do care will put things right, probably far less gently than me." I have never made a comment about what was or is said on your pages. As far as your health, you brought it up. ----GeorgeR,You just have to have the last word don't you? Frankly, you owe me an apology. Both of your statements are untrue. Ever since I called you on passing bad dust collection information a few weeks back, you have behaved like an infantile making up stories, trying to involve me an others in some kind of sick sub-high school debating game where instead of addressing any of the issues all you have been able to do is wage an attack against me personally. I chose to not to participate in your game other than to correct where your information could cause harm to fellow woodworkers. Read your Post 10 of this thread then your post 2. In post 10 you criticize my web pages and in post 2 you raise my health issues. I'd not be surprised to again find your changing these posts to make yourself right. bill
Bill,
It is an unfortunate fact that, given the state of human nature, some people just seem to enjoy being miserable. Given the additional fact that some remnant of charity remains even in the most wretched of men, these poor creatures reach out to others to try to share with them the one thing they value: misery
Don't feel that you need to justify yourself, your work, or your website. Most of us realise that from time to time the trolls stick their scaly heads out, do their bitching, curse the sun, and slither back into the darkness whence they came. Few take them seriously.
I suggest you simply ignore their nasty little posts and refocus your energies on the wonderful work you're doing - it's a real service to all woodworkers.
Thanks,
Jeff
Edited 5/4/2003 1:09:28 AM ET by Jeff K
bill ---
As I recall there were 2 threads on dust collection recently on this board. You might review that thread also.
As I recall you have made dust collection posts on other boards and on this board in the more distant past. It might be worthwhile for you to review those sites also.
If you look at the other duct collection thread on this site, you will observe that I told you one way to make me adopt your position. I believe I said that when you provide certain information, I would go out and preach your position.
Abusing me will not make me adopt your position.
George,I'm not real fond of unmonitored forums where people don't have to use their real names and real email addresses because it promotes pseudo experts in things that they know nothing about. Moreover, it permits waging personal attacks without having to exercise the responsibility or accountability that would normally be deemed appropriate in civilized circles. I only came to this forum by multiple requests because you were pretending to be an authority figure spewing forth misinformation about dust collection. Following your bad advice could seriously harm fellow woodworkers, plus without ever having communicated or your having read word one of my efforts, you chose to severely slur me and my efforts. Rather than step down to your level, I gently shared the facts, links, and information on my Dust Collection Basics Pages in a new thread so others could make more informed decisions. You chose to wage a petty personal campaign against me made up of false statements, lies, and misinformation. As I continued to ignore you, you stepped up your level of personal attack. Tired of you, I simply shared your own posts that prove you a liar. Now you whine that was abusive. bill
bill ---
If the site asked for my e-mail address, it has it and it is correct. As for the name, my name is George Roberts - looks a lot like GeorgeR.
You use the terms "waging personal attacks", "severely slur", and "liar" in your most recent post about me. I don't speak about others like that. If you don't find those terms abuse, you may find no terms abusive.
Perhaps you should stop coming.
You sound a lot like a fellow who has sun caused skin cancer and preaches that everyone needs to wear the best sun screen on their daily trip to the mail box. i think there are other ways to solve the problem.
George,
Your post stated
"Perhaps you should stop coming." and was directed at Bill Pentz.
I am an engineer who specializes in air sampling equipment. As such I have specific knowledge that relates to dust collection. I have reviewed Bill's site and find it to be an excellent source of well researched information. (Thanks Bill !)
Your posts, on the other hand, tend to come across as vindictive and immature. Maybe this was not your intention, but from reading other replies, that was the effect. While you are certainly free to frequent any forum you wish, I for one (and I believe I am with the majority on this one) would appreciate it if perhaps you would lighten your tone, gain some maturity, or perhaps just stop coming here.
Bill has gone to a great deal of trouble to research this subject and share his findings. He does not appear to be getting rich from his efforts. Sounds like the type of person we want on this forum.
Sincerely,
Scott
Another thank you for your web site-I've had it book marked for some time. Lot's of great and useful info.
Ditto that for me as well. I found your web site to be extremely informative and fair. I am now far better educated on dust collection (a subject difficult to get accurate info on). I feel far more capable of selecting/building a dust collection system for my shop that will provide me a safe environment to work with wood. I will continue to seek out your website for future updates.
I find the abusive nature of others decenting comments to be unhelpful to the those of us looking to gather acurate information regarding dust collection making our wood working environments safer. Keep up the good work, Bill!
Thanks,
--Rob
Scott --
Perhaps you should look at Bill's post. I believe he said that he did not like posting on un-moderated forums. I simply pointed out it was his option.
If you do not like my tone, your option is to leave also.
Scott ---
You wrote ---
"I am an engineer who specializes in air sampling equipment."
If you are, you should be able to provide some very specific dust collection information.
1) A health risk/dust exposure formula (or graph or table) for wood dust.
2) An air quality / dust production rate formula (or graph or table) for off the shelf dust collection systems.
While dust exposures above a certin level are not healthy, most of us have much greater risks that we ignore.
This is directed to no one in particular, but I thought I would mention my own little dust collection story.
I am an amateur. I don't spend nearly the amount of time I'd like to in the shop. I've never used dust collection before. I've lived with a coating of dust on everything, a haze in the air, and, worst of all, an unhappy wife.
I just purchased a JDS overhead dust filter. It makes an amazing difference. The air in the shop is very, very noticably less dusty, it's not very noisy, I can time it to stay on for say, three hours so I don't even have to think about turning it off, and my wife is. . . .well, she's happier. I have a long way to go before I'm even at neutral.
George,
My speciality has to do with air sampling for radiological and biological contaminants. This means that I have some expertise with regards to fan pressure curves and the flow of air and particulate through ducts. Air sampling is a huge field and wood dust collection is not my speciality.
You said:
"If you are, you should be able to provide some very specific dust collection information.
1) A health risk/dust exposure formula (or graph or table) for wood dust.
2) An air quality / dust production rate formula (or graph or table) for off the shelf dust collection systems"
As to question 1, my research seems to say that fungi and mold spores in the wood dust are as much of a problem as the wood dust itself. Of course relative risk changes with the species of wood.
A quick google turned up the following information.
From
http://www.epa.gov/region4/sesd/pm25/p2.htm
How does PM2.5 affect human health?
Because these particles are so small they are able to penetrate to the deepest parts of the lungs. Scientific studies have suggested links between fine particulate matter and numerous health problems including asthma, bronchitis, acute and chronic respiratory symptoms such as shortness of breath and painful breathing, and premature deaths. Most of these premature deaths are the elderly who's immune systems are weaker due to age or other health problems such as cardiopulmonary diseases.
Children are more susceptible to the health risks of PM2.5 because their immune and respiratory systems are still developing. The average adult breaths 13,000 liters of air per day and children breath up to 50 percent more air per pound of body weight than adults. The breathing of fine particles by children is believed to cause both acute and chronic respiratory problems such as asthma. Forty percent of all asthma cases are children who make up only 25 percent of the population.
http://www.champion-newera.com/CHAMP.PDFS/encyclo635.pdf
WOOD DUST AND CANCER: The relationship between wood dust exposure and cancer has been extensively
studied. IARC classifies wood dust as a Group 1 human carcinogen. Wood dust has been implicated in increased
sinonasal cancers and paranasal cancers in exposed workers. In addition, there have also been findings of
increased risk for lung cancers, stomach cancers and laryngeal cancers in wood workers. Total mortality increases,
total malignancies increase, lung cancers of all types increase and quite unexpectedly, prostate cancers increases
were found in various samplings of wood workers and workers in wood related professions.
Interesting Australian link and others
http://setis2.library.usyd.edu.au/~thesis/adt-NU/uploads/approved/adt-NU1999.0018/public/whole.pdf
http://www.sporometrics.com/Thesis/Chapter%201.htm
http://www.osha.gov/Publications/osha3157.pdf
As to question 2, I have no numbers or research. My opinion follows. I do not think that a dust collection system will generate significantly more small (PM10 and smaller) particles than the original source. In other words, I do not think that a dust collector makes small particles out of big particles. It does seam rather obvious however that the act of gathering the dust would suspend in the air more of the particles that are too small for the filter than would otherwise be suspended.
This seems like it is getting too long. If you would like to subject yourself and anyone near your shop to breathing wood dust (and associated fungi) you are by all means free to do so.
Have a good evening.
Scott
I took the time to look at the articles you list.
Ignoring the fact that most articles are not on point. (They deal with full time work in production enviroments.) I direct you to page 33 of the OSHA document. Under the heading "How Can I Protect ... from Fires and Explosions", second paragraph. The plain reading is that even well designed dust hoods do not collect all of the dust.
Page 54 deals with dust collection from routers.
(I quit reading at this point.)
The plain reading is source vacuum systems do not work. They need to be supplemented by something else.
If you read the post from Mark
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=11839.46
and my first post on a different thread about dust collection, you will note that we both provide dust collection by remote air filtration systems.
-----
I am not out to preach that everyone needs a chip/dust collector or a remote air filtration system.
I simply say that each situation is different and needs to be looked at by the user.
-----
Feel free to believe the OSHA report or not. I will also say anyone who recites the fact dust is a health hazard and ignores the OSHA report that the best source dust collection is ineffective is a fool.
I will also continue to say Bill's slander of the dust collection equipment manufacturer's is just that.
Yall give it up! Hit the ignore button or just don't take the bait. Like I said before let him breath the dust. Just a little more chlorine in the gene pool.
Philip
George,
Scott beat me to writing something - I share his thoughts, but.
Here's a simple quiz:
http://www.uyseg.org/risked/pages/risk/airpollution.htm
Also, some simple information on the risks of dust - inhalable dust is PM10, respirable dust (as is what's found in smoke) is PM2.5. The nature of the dust you experience depends upon what you're doing at the time
http://www-eaps.mit.edu/megacities/outreach/images/files/pm2.5.htm
Cheers,
eddie
Edited 5/8/2003 9:18:55 AM ET by eddie (aust)
Bill;
I recommend using the ignore feature.
This guy just isn't worth the trouble.
Let him breath the all dust he wants.
Don't worry about him influencing anybody, I really doubt anyone pays any attention to his 'opinions' anyway.The proof is in the puddin'
Nicobie,
Good advice, the ignore button is what I should have done with that fellow a few weeks ago. Thanks.
bill
No, it's called the truth
How do you know?
You his doctor?The proof is in the puddin'
No, it's called common sense!
Edited 4/23/2003 10:42:25 AM ET by Lar
I have spent the time to E-mail Bill Pentz & Terry Hatfield & get to know the & understand what they are trying to do. I have also spent the time to read what they have written & tried to understand it.
There has been a lot of things going on behind the lines & in the trenches that some of you are not aware of.
So before you pass judgment get to know the people you are running down.
I know a real nice guy named George. I wish it was you.
Unless you become a mature man & act like one. I would prefer you don't address me.
Yes I am a forgiving person George if I see a change then we'll talk.
Judas priest on a pony! When are some of you people going to grow up?
If you could possibly manage to move beyond the pictures and actually read the text, you'd discover that Mr. Pentz, far from complaining, is providing a service to his fellow woodworkers by gathering some of the best science available AND offering a number of viable solutions to a very dangerous problem.
Doesn't sound like he's whining to me.
On the other hand, there does seem to be a rather mindless, even primitive, groan emanating from somewhere in this thread.
Jeff
An empty box flappeth the loudest. (Prov36:27)
The fact that you don't like the message does not make you right.
The gentleman claims his version of dust collection cured his dust caused health problem.
I have no problem with that.
I have a problem with him claiming to know sight unseen that his problem is everyone's problem and his solution is everyone's solution.
I have a problem with him slandering (libel for those who are picky) the businesses that produce dust/chip collection devices.
Certainly, dust is a problem. There are many cures. His cure is not that good. The commercial cures are not that bad.
Real quick test:
1) What is the level of dust in your shop?
2) For the amount of time you are in your shop, what level of dust is acceptable from a health standpoint?
I suppose none of you can answer those questions.
U must work for NASA as a scientist... BIG Hahahahahaha
You have just compared Bill P with Scott P., who prolly killed his wife and kid.
The guy has spent alot of time on this 'DUST CONTROL' issue.
Not only does it make sense to me, but it is making sense to the DC industry.
Times are a changing.
Dillweed
The proof is in the puddin'
OK, I'll edit the message and tone it down some to make everyone happy. My first reading of the web site gave me the impression that he was blaming all of his lung damage on inadequate wood dust collection; that despite all his efforts he suffered debilitating attacks. It seems likely that George also came away with that impression (message #2). Once one looks deeper, Bill admits that his lungs were heavily scarred by an accident, and the tissue subsequently inflamed by woodworking. That is *really different* than a scenario of someone whose lungs were damaged purely by exposure to wood dust, which is where the rest of us are coming from.
The question I have is how necessary are all the things he proposes? How does all this relate to those of us with healthy pulmonary systems who don't spend 40 hrs a week in the shop? Our exposures are limited and our bodies are able to cleanse the tissue. Bill has to take extreme precautions because his body is damaged, but that doesn't mean that the rest of us *have to* as well. Maybe what he suggests is applicable to professional shops and really really serious amateurs with prolonged exposures. But I don't think it applies to me, because I am probably operating in the "negligible" area of exposure, and it really isn't worth it to spend the extra time, money, and space to reduce my exposure to "insignificant." I have to agree with George, for alot of people, all of this information is probably non-applicable. Yes, it is an impressive work. But one also has to keep things in perspective and draw the line when it comes to being alarmist. If your boogers don't look like biscuits, then you are probably doing an adequate job of controlling dust. People who smoke get a warning from their bodies that something is wrong. If wood dust is making you cough, then by all means do something about it. But lets not start to treat wood dust like it's plutonium, because its not.
As for the assertion that the majority of DC equipment is dangerous and there are misleading claims made by the manufacturers, file a complaint with the CPSC, EPA, and the local air quality people. Trust me, those agencies are full of individuals who live for these kinds of complaints. Given that our "nanny state" over-regulates just about everything, and that DC's aren't on their hit list, suggests the problems with commercial equipment probably aren't there.
Edited 4/23/2003 4:25:12 AM ET by Major Wood
OK, I can edit too......
The main reason I became involved with Bill was because my 12 year old daughter became interested in turning. Every time she would turn and sand pens or atomizers she would have a reaction. I had a good collector with supposed to be 1 micron bags. I had built dust hoods that captured the sanding dust from the lathe but the bags just spewed it back into the shop. She had to stop turning because of being sick which broke my heart.
I built a Pentz cyclone with a good cartridge filter and she no longer has the reaction when she is in the shop. Pretty convincing evidence if you ask me.
Her exposure was only about 1 hour per week. She would start having trouble after just a few minutes of exposure.
Was it worth it to me to follow Bill's advice? You bet it was. Time spent with my daughter is priceless to me. Seeing her standing at the lathe turning is one of the most special things in my life.
If you don't feel the need to follow his advice then don't, but don't say that a minimum of exposure doesn't have any effects because it does.
Terry Hatfield
Edited 4/23/2003 12:59:21 AM ET by Terry H
Edited 4/23/2003 8:46:34 AM ET by Terry H
I side with Terry here.
I like to turn wood on the lathe too but I always have to wear some kind of mask & will continue to do so.
I also have an shop built air scrubber right behind the lathe to help suck as much of the dust away from me as possible. I really need a powerful cyclone system to help suck the dust away from the lathe & my other tools.
If I was to turn or sand with out protection for even a few minutes I would be out of the shop for 2 weeks to a month or longer.
I don't have the damage to my lungs that Bill Pentz has but I respect what he is trying to do to help others & improve an industry.
This industry for the home hobby shop dust collection has needed a serious shove in the right direction for a while.
People like Bill & Terry are just one of the ways we get improvements in all the areas & tools that we use in our shops.
Not many spend the time & money to do what these 2 men have done.
Have any of the persons that have reacted in the negative about what these 2 men have done & said, done anything to compare for the wood working community?
I would not want to have as negative an attitude as some I have witnessed here.
It is much better to look for the positives in everything you find in life then to pick & tear at everything looking for the negatives.
You'll find that being negative does things to you both physically & mentally that you would not believe.
If you've lived a negative life for a long time you would probably not notice it, but if you try the positive side things for a long while & then go back & try the negative side again I guarantee you see what it has done to you in the past.
You don't need to ask me how I know this. I'll admit I've been there & it's still a struggle sometimes.......
What a terrific collection of information!
Many thanks to the author for his fine contribution.
dave
WTF?
What the hell is wrong with this forum when a topic that's been dead for nearly ten years gets bumped by a Russian spammer?
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