I am a very new “sawdust maker” and I am going to try some Formby’s Tung oil Finish “varnish”.
Just wondering if the formby’s will bring the grain out of the wood as a natural colored stain does?
If it doesn’t bring the grain out enough to my likeing can I use an oil based minwax stain and then go over it with the Formby’s Tung Oil Finish? If so how long should I wait for the oil based stain to dry since the Formby’s has an oil base. I do know that either way I will have to use at least 2 or 3 coats of this formby’s. And just so ya’ll know it’s for an inside application, a lamp.
Sorry if Im beating a dead horse with this subject.
Thanks alot ya’ll,
Rodknee
Replies
Rodknee, I think that particular horse hasn't been beaten for awhile, so you're safe, LOL! I'm a little confused by the phrase "natural colored stain" -- if it's "natural" isn't it not a stain? Hmmmmm, maybe I'm just missing that one.
Do you have some scraps from the making of the lamps. It's always (always!) a good idea to do your experimenting on scraps. I think as long as you make sure the Minwax isn't beading up, and has cured enough to not have a distinct smell, you should be fine.
BTW, you can make your own oil/varnish finish. Lots cheaper. Just mix oil with varnish, 50/50 or a little more varnish if you want. I've made many different mixes depending on the item.
forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks for that input forestgirl. I think the "tung oil" is going to work good by itself. What brands of oil and varnish do you buy to mix together? When you say oil do ya mean just like an oil based stain? Like I said, still kinda new to this. THanks
You can make your own oil-varnish mixture with boiled linseed oil. Mix it 1/3 oil, 1/3 varnish and 1/3 mineral spirits. Or you can apply boiled linseed oil to your wood, let it dry and then apply wipe on varnish (1/2 varnish, 1/2 mineral spirits) for 6 coats for the top surface. This dries very quickly so you may be able to apply up to 3 coats/ day. Wiping it on is foolproof. Formby's is just an expensive marketing tool. You have no idea of the ratios of the finish so you don't control the amount of protection it will afford.Gretchen
The Formby's stuff you're referring to ("Tung Oil Finish") is not just tung oil, it's a tung oil/varnish mix. This is a common point of confusion, so I'm just reiterating the difference. I don't worry too much about what brand I use. The main thing is to make sure you're getting Tung Oil, and not a varnish mix. Combine the tung oil with a quality interior varnish (I prefer not to use polyurethane, though I've heard a few people do). You can choose between gloss and satin, depending on the look you want. You can vary the proportions, using as much as 3/4 tung oil, or 3/4 varnish, again depending on the look you want. There's nothing wrong with using the Formby's brand of TO finish, but it's more expensive than making your own.
I can identify with the confusion you feel about the whole area of finishing -- there's is a great deal to learn, and just when you think you have a grasp, 5 minutes standing in the aisle at the hardware store throws it all into disarray! I going to make a few suggestions:
immediately segregate, mentally, the terms "oil" and "stain". Oil is oil (usually Tung or Linseed -- linseed usually formulated as Boiled Linseed Oil or "BLO"). Stain has become a generic term for a substance that modifies the color of the wood. It is in a carrier, either oil, water or alcohol.
Buy a book or two to help you understand the basics. I wasted a lot of money on finishing books years ago. The two I recommend for beginners these days are "Great Wood Finishes" by Jeff Jewitt -- he takes you through the basics and more advanced techniques, excellent organization and color plates, then presents several finishes ranked by difficulty level. The other book is more for people who like to reclaim "vintage" or damaged furniture from garage sales and auctions or such, called "The Weekend Refinisher" by Bruce Johnson. Very easy to understand, a conservative approach with recipes and instructions for various processes. Bob Flexner has an excellent book, but I don't find the format as useful as Jewitt's book. Personal preference there.
One of the reasons we get so confused about this stuff, IMO, is that the store-bought products combine everything into one -- stain, oil and "finish" all in one can. It takes us far, far away from the real art and science of finishing and can make us crave a quick-fix finishing technique. I use Minwax and Watco Danish Oil for many projects, but am looking forward to learning how to dye, stain, glaze and all that other good stuff that mean I'm really learning how to finish.
forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hey FG
Two questions for ya...
1. Is "varnish" as durable as Poly? I am afraid to use anything much less durable with 2 90+ lb dogs, and an oaf like me. And what brands do you like?
2. Is there a decent finishing store in Seattle? I like using the net, but sometimes you need stuff right away you know?Thanks for the help. Sorry for the diversion
My understanding is that polyurethane varnish is more resistant to scratches, solvents and such than an alkyd varnish would be. Neither, though, provides armor-plating against dog claws and boot heels, ROFL!! :>)
I'd be most comfortable if you got "best brand" advice from someone much more experienced than I am with finishing. I have just a couple fairly tried-and-true methods I've used, and still dog-paddle my way through finishing decisions, books in hand. The only time I've gone out of my way to get a particular brand was when I wanted some gel varnish -- I waited until a trip to Rockler and picked up some Bartley's.forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
> I have just a couple fairly tried-and-true methods I've used,
Unintentional pun? ;-)
Wood I do that? ;-)))))forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG,
you are right about standing in the aisle at the store dumbfounded. For me it was more like 20 min. I had no idea of all the different types of finishes available.
When I first started working wood (about six months ago-here is the real newbie!-) I thought yeah just get some stain and some poly and you're done! Boy was I wrong, the more I used the poly the more I started disliking the look on the frames I have been making. So I'm just beginning to try different finishes. I will look into getting that 1st book you suggested.
So just to let all of you know I appreciate all of your help and insight to this subject.
rodknee
Actually, Formby's is a thinned varnish, not an oil/varnish blend. It contains no real tung oil--it just gives a finish like a tung oil. As you correctly stated, even the label says it's a varnish.
It a pretty good, non-yellowing thinned wiping varnish. If you want more "pop" to the grain, first apply a coat of boiled linseed oil. Apply it and then wipe it dry. Then let it dry 3-4 days in a warm area. Now apply a couple of coats of the Formby's and you will have a nice looking, fairly durable finish.
You can make your own wiping varnish by mixing your favorite clear varnish--or poly varnish, preferably an interior type--and mineral spirits in a 50/50 ratio. You will have a finish almost identical to the Formby's.
Howie,
You said that the BLO justs "pops" the grain better and then you apply the wiping varnish. I have never used BLO and I was just wondering if it darkens or "stains" the wood 'cause if not, thats the look I'm looking for. Just something to get that grain nice and defined, no staining if possible. I don't like anything real dark on the wood.
Thanks in advance,
rodknee
It is color that "pops" the grain. The yellow in boiled linseed oil is what does the trick. Any oil will somewhat darken the wood.
As with any finishing, ALWAYS try out the finish on scrap wood from your project so you can see what your are going to get.
If you want no color change, use a clear waterborne finish. But, you will get no grain highlighting.
rodknee,
I've used Fornby's tung oil finish in both satin and glossy on two pieces recently with great success. I sanded lightly with 0000 steelwool, vacuumed and tack clothed between coats.
ASK
Just was wondering how many coats you applied before you got the look you wanted? THanks for your responce.
Just was wondering how many coats you applied before you got the look you wanted? THanks for your responce.
The first couple of coats of wipe on will not look very good and you will wonder if you have made a terrible mistake. Keep applying coats. They should not totally cure--just be barely dry to the touch. After about 6 you will be pleased and after 8 you will be very happy.Gretchen
rodknee,
4 coats
The attached picture is one of the pieces
ASK
Rodknee,
Formby's "Tung oil finish" is a wiping varnish. It's not an oil/varnish blend (a.k.a., Danish Oil). Varnish is more durable than danish oil. Bob Flexner has an article on oils, tung oils finishes, and wiping varnishes at this link - Oil, Tung Oil, Wiping Varnish.
"Natural" stain, like Minwax, contains a fair amount of linseed oil and is fairly yellow in color. Some brands of varnish/danish oil will give you the same look as the natural stain and some will be a little lighter. All varnishes have one thing in common - they are based on a vegetable oil. The oils used in different varnishes include linseed oil, soybean (soya) oil, tung oil, safflower oil, oiticica oil, and perilla oil. The oil is cooked with one of the resins that combines them chemically to produce a liquid that dries to form a durable film. Depending on the oil used, the varnish can range in color from almost clear to an amber/yellow.
If the varnish/danish oil you're using doesn't give you the same look as the natural stain, you can stain first and then use the varnish. Just let the stain dry, odor free before using the varnish/danish oil over it.
When choosing a finish, there are a number of considerations; durability, color imparted, and ease of application are a few main points. Jeff Jewitt has an article on the subject at this link - Selecting a Finish. There's a link in the article to a chart that provides a comparison of the characteristics of different finishes. Danish oil (a blend of oil and varnish) is somewhere between oil and varnish in its properties.
Paul
There's some stuff in your excellent post that I'm still digesting and I'll probably have questions later, but there's one I've got to present right away: the term "natural stain" is very hard for me to get a grip on. Can you explain please? What type of stain does a "natural stain" contain? (Sheesh, now I'm trying to rhyme, not a good idea).forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG,
Minwax is one of the brands that makes a stain called "Natural." There aren't any pigments in the stain, it seems to be just thinned linseed oil.
The main use I've had for the stain is to "pop" the grain & figure of various woods before using a waterborne finish. Waterborne finishes just don't give wood the "wet" look that oil & solvent based finishes do. But it's too yellow for white woods like maple or aspen. For the folks that like to use boiled linseed oil as the first step in a finish, Minwax "Natural" is an alternative with faster drying time (though I add an ounce of japan drier to each quart of Minwax to speed drying time). Minwax can take days to dry in cooler temperatures or high humidity just like linseed oil. Adding the japan drier makes it dry overnight.
Paul
Thanks paul for that info about appling stain first and letting dry, and then the varnish. See I was not aware what you can mix with what, how long to wait..etc...
rodknee
Rodknee welcome to woodworking, its a lifelong journey and you like most of us will still be asking questions a long way down the road.
I've used Tung oil for 30+ years and it is IMO one of the most forgiving finishes to apply and enjoy the results. Pure tung oil wiped on very thin, wipe excess off in about 15 to 30 minutes let dry 24 hours buff lightly with 0000 steel wool, wipe down, repeat in 24 hours. 3 or 4 coats will give you a nice finish. It will not be a gloss finish, if you want glossy use a Tung oil varnish mix.
I've used 50/50 Tung oil, mineral spirits mix as a sealer before staining. It works really well. It gives you an even color especially end grain which will usually darken if you don't seal it.
Gods Peace
les
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