Replies

1. 
   GEide | Nov 28, 2007 01:08am | #1

   Dear Mr. Horne,

   I'm so sorry to hear about your family's loss. Are you a wood turner? I'm not an expert in this regard, but a turned urn seems fitting in my mind. Regardless, I'll assign your question to one of our experts. In addition, I will also ask others if they have input on this specialized question.

   Gina
   FineWoodworking.com

   
   

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   Edited 11/27/2007 5:09 pm ET by GEide

1. 
   rchorne | Nov 28, 2007 01:56am | #2

   Gina,

   Thank you for your interest.  I'll watch for other responses.

   Bob Horne

   PS  By the way, I'm a very poor turner, which is somewhat fortunate since my brother specifically requested a box.

2. 
   ErnieConover | Nov 28, 2007 03:28pm | #3

   Dear Bob,

   You are given a tough job but one that honers both you and your nephew. It is a job that can bring a close to this chapter of your nephew's life in a special and meaningful way while providing a catharsis for you.

   I was faced with exactly the same task about six years ago when a dear friend was taken at an untimely age by brain cancer. To a man with a hammer every problem is a nail. When news of Steve's passing reached me I was conducting a week long turning class. I dismissed my students at 4::30 pm, chucked up a 4" x 4" x 14" chunk of some tropical wood I had laying around the shop and proceed to turn a suitable urn. I worked for about two hours, often with tears doing nothing to improve my visual acuity. I spindle turned a very large box in an amphora shape with a tight fitting lid that more or less closed permanently once the ashes were put in it. The family was grateful and I was able to work out much of my anger.

   Turning an urn is not a beginning turning project. You must work with the skills you posses. I think boxes would be very suitable for the task and you have a lot of options in their construction. I might make each box exactly cubic which would simplify figuring of volume, construction, and internment. Through dovetailing, especially hand cut, would be very nice however well cut box joints would work nicely and be much faster given the time window. At the size of the boxes you are making the bottom could be a single panel glued directly to the carcase. The best construction would trap a 1/4" panel in a 1/4" groove 1/4 from the bottom with 1/2" added to the height of the box to compensate for the volume loss. The lid could be a panel with a second panel that was the inside dimensions of the box glued to it. This would fit down inside and allow the top to be permanently affixed with four brass screws. Again an adjustment for height would be necessary to compensate for the loss in volume.

   Wood choice can be as exotic or as plain as seems fitting and feedback from your brother will provide the necessary information. Carving, veneer inlays or perfectly plain are all fitting. The right decisions will come to you as you work. It works that way.

   I would be glad to make a sketch if it would help. Please feel free to contact me at any time and I will try to give meaningful advice.

   With you in this time of sorrow,
   Ernie Conover

   Edited 11/28/2007 8:24 am ET by ErnieConover

   
   

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   Edited 11/28/2007 8:27 am ET by ErnieConover

1. 
   rchorne | Nov 28, 2007 05:34pm | #4

   Ernie,

   Thank you so much for your thoughts and suggestions.  This project will actually involve a higher level of emotion than woodworking skill.  Your sentiments are greatly appreciated.

   I will stick with a box, since my turning skills are very limited, and your simple yet appropriate ideas are the direction I was considering.  I was originally going to hinge the lid with a mortised lock, but you made me realize that this is a permanent housing and will probably never need to be reopened.  So I will follow your lead with brass screws securing the lid.  Do you know if there is any particular topcoat for both inside and out that would be a benefit for preservation?

   Regards,

   Bob Horne

3. 
   JohnWW | Nov 28, 2007 06:50pm | #5

   Bob,

   Please accept my sympathy at your family's loss.

   I would suggest a simple box, with plain sides out of a wood with an attractive grain.  The top could be fancier with either a routed profile around a solid wood panel, or a simple raised panel.  Adding feet or a molding around the bottom edge would be a nice addition, and will make the box look more substantial.

   The ashes are inert, so the box doesn't need to be absolutely airtight, a snug wood to wood seal on the lid will be fine.  You can actually make the "lid" fixed and make the bottom a removable panel, thus hiding the screws and further simplifying the design.

   The quantity of ashes will probably be relatively small, a cupful or two, but you might want to make the box larger so there would be room in the box for small mementos from the family to be included. 

   The funeral service may supply the ashes in a small sealed plastic container, you should ask if they can give you the dimensions.  Some services use little more than a glorified zip lock bag for the ashes so you may want to find a more dignified glass, metal, or ceramic container to put the ashes in that would then go into the box.

   The interior should be left unfinished or given a coat of shellac, any other finish will leave a permanent chemical smell.  The outside could also be finished with just shellac or it could be given an oil finish to bring out the grain. 

   There is nothing you could do to improve the permanence of the wood.  If the box is kept in a dry environment, it will survive for thousands of years with no finish at all.

   Hope this helps,

   John White

1. 
   rchorne | Nov 28, 2007 07:59pm | #6

   John,

   Thank you so much for your sentiment.  Everyone at FWW has been so thoughtful.

   Your ideas and suggestions are great.  I had been trying to think of an attractive way to attach the top, but your removable bottom is inspirational!

   My brother had given me some rough dimensions, but I had planned on checking with the funeral home for more specifics.

   Because everyone has been so great about taking time from your busy schedules to offer respects and ideas, I will try to post a picture when I complete the project.

   Best regards,

   Bob Horne

1. 
   GEide | Dec 02, 2007 07:51pm | #7

   Hi Mr. Horne,In case you're interested in a little more feedback from one of our experts, Gary Rogowski forwarded me a message to you since he was having a bit of trouble accessing the site.Gina
   FineWoodworking.comGary's message:Hi,
   I've done a couple of urns. The size is about 8" x 8" x 10" tall. One I built out of solid walnut about 1/2" thick with a simple rabbeted joint along the edges. Glued and pinned. The lid was a simple lift off lid that had a rabbet around its edge so that the lid just fits down into the box.
   The other urn I'm now building is a frame and panel construction. A bit trickier and more time consuming. Again it uses a lift off lid.
   It's a sad job. My best wishes go out to you.
   Sincerely,
   Gary Rogowski

1. 
   rchorne | Dec 02, 2007 09:47pm | #8

   Gina,

   Please pass my thanks onto Mr. Rogowski.  His thoughts are always so valuable.

   I have just returned from my nephew's memorial service and will now begin the design phase of the containers for the ashes.  One will be taken next spring to Wyoming where my nephew spent the last decade teaching; the other will be given to an Episcopal campground in Virginia where he worked several summers as a counselor.  Hopefully, my containers will live up to the quality of assistance I have received from all of you at FWW.  If I can figure out how to do it, I will try to post pictures in a few weeks after completion.

   Thank you,

   Bob Horne

   Dallas, TX