Replies

1. 
   roc | Sep 09, 2012 01:21pm | #1

   Well You Know

   He's the "Wed" producer.

   People , especially in the last year or so, especially in the fast moving medias , are less detail oriented.  Wanting to get their work over with so they can get back to talking with their friends about what the Simpsons or South Park characters said or did.  Just an observation.  The two or three times I watched parts of those shows I never once saw them addressing wood finishing (or any thing really useful , interesting or uplifting come to think of it).  I probably just missed those episodes.

   Details, facts and focus are "Bad Words".

   As you well know you are right though !

   Thanks for pointing that out.

   PS:  I almost skipped your post thinking it was another SPAM ad here.  Then I figured I would go into it and click the Inappropriate button.  You might consider  changing the title to "FWW Staff Member Poisons Helpless Families" or something like that.

2. 
   peter28 | Sep 09, 2012 06:52pm | #2

   D_H,

   Ed's advice is not going to poison any families. As a matter of fact any finish is food safe once cured. The driers used are encapsulated within the molecule of the oil and are not toxic once cured. Curing is the process of oxidation.

   In response to the editors watching cartoons and basically handing out dangerous advice is ludicrous. Obviously Roc has never worked with anyone at FWW. I can tell you from experience, there's not a lot of downtime for screwing around.

   Both Ed Pirnick and Mike Pecovitch are very smart men. I've had the pleasure of working with both of them. Do you really think they didn't do their homework prior to making the video?

   Peter Gedrys

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Sep 09, 2012 09:32pm | #4

   The issue with boiled linseed oil on cutting boards is the odor, not the metallic driers.  The amount of metallic driers are well below the level determined by the government to be dangerous.  Once the BLO has polymerised or cured, there is no health danger.

   However, BLO has distinctive odor which most would find objectionable on their food.  The best treatment for cutting boards and chopping blocks is mineral oil or mineral oil and paraffin or beeswax.

2. 
   Westchester | Sep 10, 2012 11:55am | #6

   In Response

   Pete there is a fine line here between a serious comment and one mixed with humor. You know that humor is part of the responses from time to time.  Ed doesn't need defending and roc has helped dozens of people on this site so why take a stab at roc.

   Nothing mean is meant by roc's comments;  

   The truth is that Ed has kind of a target on his back because he represents a site with glitchy software and we have lost people. Pete you will not disagree the site is troublesome to nagivate.

   Fine craftsmanship isn't going away but our members seem to be.  I'm sure Ed is a very good guy and experienced - no one will doubt that.  However we ask Ed to fix the site - if he can't fix it -  get someone who can - or tell us why he can't get the job done.  This is not a personal attack - rather a comment on the mechanics of the software. How about reaching out to members here to ask for IT advice.  The other forums can do it - Why not ours ?  Lets return to the days when this site had great numbers of people participating !

   SA

1. 
   peter28 | Sep 10, 2012 09:35pm | #7

   Hey Westchester,

   It's been a while. How's work in your area? I just finished a project on the upper west side on CPW. Was there for five weeks. Road stuff can get tedious but it was a fun job.

   It's funny you said Ed didn't need defending. I just gave a professional opinion. Saying someone hasn't got any experience with the people they're critiquing hardly constitutes a stab. To the best of my knowledge my statement was correct. I didn't tell him he had a target on his back. 

   I can't speak to the navs on the site.

   Speaking of defense, I doubt Roc needs any help either. Was that a double standard or just that fine line of humor mixed in? I'm sure he slept just fine last night.

1. 
   Westchester | Sep 11, 2012 05:57am | #8

   CPW

   Pete -

   The Big Apple hasn't been the same since you tried to order sugary beverages over 16oz's -  and thinking you could drive down Broadway through those tables and benches - what an amature - (not humor )

   I go along with all you say but how can the software on this site return to the days of old.  Figure that out and I'll tell you where the best deli's are for your next visit.  Bloomberg sends his regards and said to remind you not to forget to pay your MTA tax.

   SA

1. 
   peter28 | Sep 11, 2012 08:31am | #9

   Westchester,

   Now that was funny!! Deli info would be gratefully accepted. Not a deli but a good one: Fred's, Amsterdam @ 83rd st.

   Fred was a black lab and some type of assist dog. There is a large photo of him in the bar. Anyone can bring in a shot of their dog and it gets hung on the walls. The place is covered with dogs.

   The logo on the business card is Come, Sit, Stay. Good food and laughs. Didn't take long to become a regular there. Plus it was within walking distance of where I was staying.

   I'd like to charge Bloomberg an aggravation tax. Have you ever seen Penn or Grand Central Station on a Friday afternoon?

   Sorry for going off topic to anyone involved.

   PG

3. 
   roc | Sep 09, 2012 08:33pm | #3

   Geez where to begin . . . look . . .

   Cartoon watching  . . . 

   I was speaking of the general decline I see in society.  The magazine is far from what it used to be.  I made a loose correlation. Maybe I am wrong.

   I think the ANY finish is safe when dry theory is speaking to finish handled with the hands and outside of the body not inside the digestive tract or other wise coming in contact with vinegar, meat tenderizers etc..

   I am sure you feel safe.

   For those still concerned with their health and food environment consider these :

   • Some people aren't going to wait the days, weeks or months it will take to fully cure the boiled Linseed oil so the cobalt and what not is fully (?) "encapsulated".

   • Some people are going to rub it on in the evening after clean up and be eating off it by noon the next day. Right ?

   • And I must shout this :  WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THE HUMAN GUT IS NOT GOING TO BREAK DOWN THE SCRAPINGS FROM THE BOWL AND RELEASE THE HEAVY METALS ?

   • The vinegar used in salad dressing may also dissolve the oil.

   • It takes very little catalyst to effect a change in the oil.

   • It takes very little catalyst to effect a change in cells of the human body.

   • The catalyst by definition is unchanged by mixing with the oil so it will be still an agent for change in the body if not fully encapsulated.

   FWW issue # 38 bottom of page 71 an article by Antoine Capet titled Walnut-oil Finish Is Safe For Food

   The advantages are :

   • smells more appetizing than boiled linseed oil

   • dries fairly well with out metallic drier chemicals

   • does not contain petroleum distillates that are in "certified safe" bowl finishes which at the very least effects the taste of the food and is nasty.

   This FWW source thinks the jury is still out on many of the "safe" finishes

   https://www.finewoodworking.com/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesArticle.aspx?id=26893

   I see RAW linseed oil listed there but not chemical drier enhanced "boiled Linseed oil".

   I would recommend food grade walnut oil or bee's wax.  The wax doesn't grab dust like the oil does.  Takes some warming and rubbing though.  Smells great.

1. 
   D_H | Sep 11, 2012 02:26pm | #10

   DDT was once deemed "perfectly safe"

   Thanks for your comments and excellent points ROC.  I don't generally make a habit of posting on forums, but this subject to me needed to be raised.  Like you, I don't buy the "encapsulated' argument when it comes to finishes used for food surfaces, where finishes eventually wear off or react with ingredients in food.  

   It's no surprise to see other people talk about how once it cures, boiled linseed oil is perfectly fine. If they want to put that much trust in gov't regulatory agencies who tell them not to worry about trace amounts of toxic heavy metals possibly getting into their food, that's their choice to take that risk and expose themselves.  But over the 24 years I have been a professional woodworker, I have chosen to take a safer route. My customers appreciate that.  Why should I expose them and their families to the potential risk when alternatives without toxic heavy metals exist?    

   For those who trust the "encapsulated" argument, just remember, it was not long ago that your gov't agencies told you it was perfectly safe when they sprayed neighborhoods with DDT.  They sprayed it all over suburbia, on public swimming pools, on kids, etc.  Then 30 years later people can't figure out why there are clusters of breast cancer in those very same areas.  Remember Rachel Carson, Silent Spring?

   And in terms of surfaces for food, look at teflon non-stick coatings: hyped as inert, totally safe.  Now studies have shown how teflon releases toxic chemicals into your food when heated, with direct links to a whole host of different serious health problems.  The information is all out there, people just have to take the blinders off and look at it…  

   And then there's Bisphenol-A, for decades touted as safe by the chemical industry that's made billions off of it.  But oops, oh gee whiz, turns out it's also a synthetic estrogen, and it's been linked to increased rates of breast cancer and other major health problems, and it's used in the lining of all canned goods and canned beverages.  The FDA recently ignored millions of people's petitions to ban BPA and caved to the chemical lobby.  Meanwhile BPA was banned from all food packaging in Japan over 10 years ago.  

   Need another example?  How about GMO foods?  Gov't says it's safe, perfectly fine.  Meanwhile a study in France found that GMO corn damages kidney cells and causes infertility.  While we let the interests of corporate profit making trump public health and safety, other countries are outright banning GMO food. 

   It all comes down to "acceptable risk", how many people will die per 100,000 for a given technology or substance.  That's how corporate America and its regulatory agencies (which are a literal revolving door between gov't and the industries it's supposed to regulate) work.  

   Bottom line: when safer alternatives are available, there really is no excuse to keep using the stuff containing the toxins, especially for wooden items used for food, and especially if you are making them for other people, and I think this video does a disservice to it's viewers by offering overly simplistic information.  But maybe the video was created to generate more hits to the website and forum.  In that case, I guess it was successful.  

   Back to work...

1. 
   Westchester | Sep 11, 2012 06:39pm | #11

   Acceptable Risk

   Not much good news there - I'm glad they didn't ask you about climate change. 

   SA

4. 
   roc | Sep 10, 2012 12:28am | #5

   He's always great

   Some times hyperbole can be fun though

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwhgTVRRrSQ

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP4zgb9H3Cg&feature=related