I have managed to work in my shop for some 25 years, and I still have all my fingers, and have never (knock on wood) had any injuries.
But about two years ago, my feet and knees started to hurt — which I attributed to getting old. But it got bad enough that I checked with my doc, who in turn sent me to a podiatrist, who in turn fixed me up with a fancy set of orthotic supports (to the tune of $400). Through this period I have tried various brands of quality footwear — Red Wing boots/shoes, Ecco, Lowa, and the like.
And yes, I have those cushioned mats located wherever I might stand for an extended period of time.
My point is nothing seems to be working, and now I am beginning to think the real culprit here is the concrete floor in my shop.
I would imagine many of you also spend your days on concrete floors. But before I undertake the considerable effort and expense of installing some sort of new floor, I thought I would ask if any of you have found a solution (footwear, socks, other techniques, etc.) to alleviate problems with weary feet/knees. Anybody have experience with accupuncture, accupressure, etc.?
My aching knees/feet will thank you for any advice.
Replies
I would strongly recommend that you arrange to spend some time in a shop with a wood framed floor before you decide anything. If the rubber mats don't work, don't just assume a wood floor will do any better.
The only other thing I can suggest is take more breaks. I can only stand up for 20 or 30 minutes at a time before my hip hurts enough to be a distraction, but I only have to sit down for a few minutes to be ready to go again.
What do you mean by a "wood framed floor?"
I'm guessing it means attaching sleepers to the concrete with the flooring material on top of the sleepers.
I really, really, don't want to install a new floor of any kind. I like your idea of sitting down more frequently.
Nikkiwood,
It sounds to me like your at that age where you're begining to pay for the sins of your youth...don't believe it...fight back! If your joints hurt there can be several reasons and several people in healthcare are anxious to see if they can help...for a price. The key is a good and solid diagnosis, and because joint/muscle pain involves the musculoskeletal system and nervous system it's best to see someone with adequate training in those specialities.
A Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation Specilaist (PM&R) is a MD who is crossed trained in Orthopaedics and Neurology and works with many patients suffering from joint/muscle pain. Calling a rehab hospital should provide you with physicians names who have this specialty.
The body is designed, such that, the muscles support the bones and the joints. One possible explanation of your problem is the muscles are not doing the job adequately...that can be improved with the 'right' exercise to stimulate the right muscle....a PM&R can determine how your built and design the right exercise. Some people, as they age, have a problem with the fluids that protect the joint ....there are new injectables than can greatly help this situation.
I do not mean to suggest that the other alternatives (podiatrist, accupuncture, wood floor) would not help....but they are all cures so to speak. I'm suggesting you define the problem first...it might save you a lot of frustration.
>> What do you mean by a "wood framed floor?"
>> I'm guessing it means attaching sleepers to the concrete ...
No, I meant framed with joists so the floor is supported only at the edges, as distinct from the sleepers on concrete. I could have made that clearer. :) In the slab on grade parts of the country, it might be hard to find such a thing. Actually, even where people build on basements and crawl spaces, I suppose most shops are in the basement or garage or outbuilding and not on a framed floor.
But the real point is that if I were in your position, I'd try really hard to find a way to test a new floor design before redoing the whole shop. Maybe you could test various approaches with a 4'x8' platform in front of your bench or whichever machines you spend the most time standing at.
The "real culprit" might be your back, so before you put a ton of money into remodelling the floor, it'd be a good idea to check the complete bod out and make sure everything's OK. Do you have any stiffness in your lower back or hip(s)? Did the time when your feet/knees started to hurt correspond with any kind of back incident -- a pulled muscle or such?
I speak from painful experience.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
In my experience with orthotics, some work and some don't. Talk to the podiatrist about a modification of them. I've had more than one pair that were worthless. Some podiatrist(and chiropractors) don't know how to adjust for the specifics of each person. I have one guy have me step in the foam/mould thing and 5 minutes later he says they are ready. Asked hiom about adjusting for pronation(sp?). His reply was the company takes care of that. Those were the worst set I have ever owned. Another thing is that one chiro told me that the first pair will usually need to be replaced within the first 6 months because the body starts to react/compensate to the inserts.
I have found that a good pair of NewBalance cross trainer shoes have help tremendously. They run $60-100 unless you find a good sale ay a large sporting goods store such as in Big5 or Sportmart.
Lately, what I have found is that when I used a ladder, I pay for it for the next week.
A friend of mine swears by z-coil shoes. He changed over to these from redwings. They are used by professions that are on hard surface floors for long periods of time-hospitals, postal workers, etc. He owns 3 pair and is on his feet in various conditions for long periods of time.
Edited 5/29/2004 2:09 pm ET by craig
What are "z-coil' shoes? A brand or a style?
a brand, I think the website is z-coil.com
For many years I've heard the popular wisdom that concrete floors are harder on the feet and joints than wooden floors. I've always been skeptical. My reason for being skeptical is that there is very little difference in hardness or stiffness of a concrete floor compared to hardwood. When you walk on a hardwood floor, you don't dent the wood, and the floor doesn't move. Both are hundreds or thousands of times stiffer than the sole of the foot, but are so similar to each other that I doubt that there is any difference in force on one's feet from walking on one vs. the other.
I speculate that the difference is either texture or footwear. Most concrete floors have a finish that won't allow the foot to slip at all, so it grabs the foot suddenly with every step, twist, and shuffle. Most wooden floors have a little slip to them, so they aren't as sudden in the resistance and force they apply to the foot in the direction parallel to the floor. If this is so, then a concrete floor troweled very smooth should be no different on the feet than a wooden floor.
Personal experience tells me that footwear can make a difference in foot and joint comfort. I worked in the same factory for 18 years. After the first 10 or 12 years the employer mandated steel toed shoes. Ever since then my feet and knees hurt. I tried many different brands and styles, and some hurt less than others, but there was always a bit of pain, especially in the feet. Then I lost my job. In two weeks all the foot pain went away. I was off work most of the summer and my feet felt great. When I got a new job it was back to the steel toed shoes. The pain returned. Now, I wasn't walking on concrete much when I was off work, but I was on my feet a lot. But, since the pain started when I first had to buy such uncomfortable shoes, I believe the stiff, heavy, confining construction of the shoes was the primary cause.
There was a gentlemen on the forum last year who asked a similar question. When he described his pain as "severe", he was encouraged to see a doctor. Turns out he had an illness that was causing the pain which can be quite serious. It would be good to hear from him, by the way. So you are wise to have checked with a doctor.
>> When you walk on a hardwood floor, you don't dent the wood, and the floor doesn't move.
I think it does. The movement maybe imperceptible at a walk, but try stomping real heard on a framed floor and then on a slab on grade and see if you can't tell the difference. I first noticed it at a dance in a church gym that had a hardwood floor over concrete slab. I started doing some foot stomping moves and got about three stomps into it before I noticed that it hurt, because it wasn't moving. I'll bet if you set up a dial indicator on the bottom of a joist at midspan on a code compliant floor, you can measure the deflection caused by a 200 pound point load directly above it. I won't guess at the number, but I'll bet it's more than 0.001".
The relevant difference may be framed versus slab on grade rather than wood versus concrete. I worked in a building that had concrete floors that would resonate to my stride if walked a little faster than usual and took a little longer steps. I don't have any other reason to believe the floor was framed, but I can't imagine that a slab on grade would resonate like that.
I do agree with you that wood versus concrete on the floor surface probably doesn't make much difference. Plywood over concrete is unlikely to be much more comfortable to stand on than just concrete. Plywood over sleepers might deflect enough to make a difference.
Edited 5/29/2004 7:25 pm ET by Uncle Dunc
A cheap alternative (when the price of OSB comes back down) would be 1/4" carpet pad under 7/16" OSB. It definately makes a difference!! My friends that work on concrete notice it on the second or third step into the shop.
Mack"WISH IN ONE HAND, #### IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
I'm sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong!
Wood floors have a level of flex or give that no concrete floor ever will have. In fact if you give me the joist size and subfloor type I can give you actual measurements.
While other medical issues could be at fault, blanket statements like yours have no basis in fact..
Sure, run the numbers and compare the results.
2 x 4 sleepers layed flat on the concrete with 3/4" hardwood flooring, deflection with a 200 pound concentrated load
deflection of the heel of the foot with a 200 pound load
deflection of the heel of a comfortable shoe with a 200 pound load
I'll be you'll find that the deflection of the foot and shoe is 50 or 100 times the deflection of the floor, and so surfacing the floor with wood will make no difference.
OK let me draw you a mental picture,
Imagine a great big 'ol oak tree. Hi gusting wind now step up to that tree and put your hand on it..
feel it move?
now go up to some concrete post and put your hand on it in the same wind..
Big deal you say! dry that wood and stretch it over some stringers and you'll bet it doesn't move much.. well you are correct,... to a degree.
Take an Indy car smack it into a wall at 220 mph and the car will "feel" 100 G's pretty well documented.. The human body cannot stand 100 G's, it will die. What happens is the car gives up energy the driver feels much less maybe only 20 to 40 G's the driver unstraps and gets out of the car and walks to the ambulance.
A little bit of flex can make a major differance in your back. OK here's your numbers, I have to extrapolate numbers since you don't build a floor that way. A 200 pound live load landed in the center of 3/4 oak across a 16 inch span yields almost 1/8th an inch. plus the crush of the fibers plus the crush of the 2x4..
If you use the cushion of a shoe as your constant you need to be aware of the jounce and recoil effect that rubber has. It's reaction rate is too fast to provide your back with much relief. Rubber has been tried a medium for the suspension of cars, without much success. It reacts too quickly and upsets the handling.. That's why we don't have solid rubber tires.
I can provide some realworld views as well. I ain't bragging, but I got two "shops" LOL. One is in the basement, concrete floor, with some carpet remnants to take the curse off. It doesn't take long, esp in the winter, for my legs and back to start complaining. Now part of the fault is my own as I typically don't wear the best stuff on my feet.
In my other shop I put a wood floor over the concrete. I used 3/4 PT ply, and ripped it for sleepers, I think 3" wide if I remember, and I put them on 16" centers. In between the sleepers I placed 3/4" insulating foam, then plastic, then 3/4 T&G subfloor. It is a big improvement. I swear it's evem more comfortable in the winter despite being colder than my "in-house" shop.
Having rather distressed underpinnings myself, I can also attest to the benefit of some excercise. My choice is bicycle, and maybe one of these fine days I'll finally manage to get out on mine. ;-)
this a subject i can definitely chim in on instead of being the perpetual lurker. first a little backround.. i'm a veteran of two back operations and have three pins in each hip from a motorcycle accident. and generally physically beat up for a 46 yr. old 240 lbs. 6'1"(but look like i belong on the bow of a viking ship....limping). i've been a carpenter for 26 yrs. and specialize in historical restorations. here's what i do to keep working at a pretty productive rate, if i say so myself.
1) good shoes, and inserts http://www.footsmart.com
2)back support a thick leather weight lifting belt
3)EXERCISE, and lose weight
4)aspirin this as of late to be a pretty handy drug
5)hamstring stretchs at least 6 times a day leg up try to kiss your knee. no kinding this is the most helpful
6)either way you cut it concrete sucks ,a wood floor with the mats for me is like working outside in the dirt. in my shop with rubber mats like in the restaurant business. i can last 4-6 hours with out a sit down. so what do i do ..... i sit down..... when i'm out in the field on dirt i'm golden 6-8 hours with out a whimper. i'm bending squatting etc. and things are limber so back to number #5 stretch,stay loose
7) glucosimine and chondroitin (pulverised oyster shells) work's and it takes time 3-4 months... but there is a draw back it has a tendency to raise your cholesterol. how much?? it differs from person to person in my case i've been blessed with high cholesterol and taking a statin (lipitor) i wonder if it off set the benefit of it.
8) ive tried knee braces and they work well but with the up and down quotient they get uncomfortable. and frankly with the weight belt , tool belt and other stuff on i look like a samurai with full battle dress. and try to keep my objective in life in focus there for read #9
9) make your self as comfortable as possible but there is a realisation that there is a percentage of pain you have to live with hence analgestic's. so get acquainted with it and keep it arms length at best.so with that a summary.
good shoes, EXERCISE, weight belt,aspirin,wood floor with mats. and cowboy up and live with abit off pain. a little coarse perhaps but true none the less. i'm sure there's not a million dollars of advice but if there's 2¢ in there some where i wish you a life time of physical comfort.....................slainte'.......bear
.
"expectations are premeditated resentments"
Hello,
Talk to your doctor and ask to have your back xrayed. You may even have to have a CAT scan. This is not something to have other woodworkers diagnose. This may be something simple or it may be more serious. Don't wait to talk to your doc.
I understand how standing for an extended period of time can cause your back to hurt. About 1 1/2 years ago I had my back fused where it had separated and roto-routed to keep the spinal cord from being compressed. I did fine for about 5 months until I moved a dishwasher for my mother and tore something. I now hurt if I stand still. Walking does not hurt, standing still does. My doctor says that is a sign of the spinal cord being compressed. I am trying to lose weight and am doing back exercises to strengthen my back. I really do not want more surgery. I have met several people who have had several back operations. I have not talked to anybody who has had just one operation, usually 3, 4, etc.
Prudent counsel about seeking medical advice.
My regular doctor (an internist) ruled out any collateral problems that might be causing the aches and pains, such as adult onset diabetes, etc. He also ran xrays on both feet and knees and found nothing unusual. But then again, he is not an othopod.
I have never had any back, knee or foot injuries that might be contributing to the problem. I'm not overweight (well, I could lose 10 lbs), and my weight has been steady for all my adult life.
So it does seem to be either a floor or footwear problem. And that's why I am soliciting advice and recommendations from anyone who has "walked " down this road before me.
had a very similer problem and my wife put me on a herbal medicine from SWISS. It is called D-Glucosamine HCL in 500mg pills. Now I am not one to take pills and so I tried it for about 5 weeks and I found that I had no pain in my knees and ancles. I than stopped taking them for about 6 days and the pain returned. I started to take them 3 times a day again and so far after a year I am still ok. Iwas told by my G.P. to try them and they work for me. I work on concrete with steel toed shoes all day. Give it a try, what have you to loose.
re: Glucosamine
I've seen this stuff in the drug store amongst the vitamins and herbals, and have actually been told I should try it. Do you have any idea if all glucosamine is basically the same?
With all the bad recent pub on herbals, we should all be careful about all this stuff. How did you decide on dosage (3 times a day)? And you've had no ill-effects after a year?
Thanks for info.
Ask yur vet....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
good morning
the hcl is the one thatI use. there is another type but that is the type and dossage that the doctor perscribed.
Tom Brown
I have blown out both of my knees. One playing sports and the other when I had a incredible brain fart. So my knees hurt, they are an excellent barometer, btw, and my Doc told me to take them. So I do and it really eases the aches. They help act as a lubricant for you joints or something like that. It has been a while since I started using it and it helps.Kevin Arceneaux
Visit the Lone Wolf Activities for MS Trainsimulator at http://www.3dtrains.com
>> ... the other when I had a incredible brain fart.
Don't even want to tell us that one, eh? I hear you. If I live long enough to have grandchildren, they're going to think I led a really boring life, because I ain't tellin' 'em nothin'.
Let's just stay that it is really hard to start a manual trannsmission truck by pushing it and then TRYING to jump in and pop the clutch.
The worst was when the BOSS got home and found my truck blocking the drive and me sitting inside with ice pack wrapped around my knee.Kevin Arceneaux
Visit the Lone Wolf Activities for MS Trainsimulator at http://www.3dtrains.com
Hey Bear
You mentioned taking statins to lower cholesterol. I've done a little research on statins, and I have found that muscle and joint aches are listed among the side effects.
I started taking Lipitor several months ago. Since then I've noticed knee joint discomfort when squatting or kneeling, as well as tendonitis in forearms near the elbows, and a general increase in fatigue when I'm in the shop.
Hope this helps.
Best regards,
--Tom
hey T.T.- would the glucosimine/condroiton(sp?) help with that . why does that happen anyhow?? did the doc give you an explanation for it?? are there any alternative medicines?? i guess i should be asking my doctor instead pummeling you with all these question LOL.... any how T , thanks for the response and stay safe......bear
."expectations are premeditated resentments"
glucosimine/condroiton is supposed to help lubricate the joints. Seems to help me.Kevin Arceneaux
Visit the Lone Wolf Activities for MS Trainsimulator at http://www.3dtrains.com
Don't know about glucosamine, but I'll be seeing the doc before long and will make inquiries. Friend of mine said recently she didn't want to take cholesterol-lowering statins becaus of all the muscle and joint aches. Got me curious. Google Lipitor and aches—will bring up many hits.
I have a 13 year old Greyhound that I give Glucosamine during the winter months (I live in Buffalo.). Her legs are pretty arthritic. It seems that her racing days are finally catching up with her. Abyway, it really seems to help her quite a bit.
Hi nikkiwood,
You have my sympathies with respect to your knees. For about 10 years now, I have been developing severe degenerative osteoarthrtis in both knees and currently suffer from similar symptoms. I am now 59.
My 45 year old son-in-law, a mason all his life, has worse knees than I do, despite his younger age. He is currently taking shots made from cockscombs to lubricate his joints.
Before you spend gobs of money on other things, go to this website and check out what they offer, shoes with springs on the heels.
http://www.troubleshooter.com/cf_misc/Columns/ColumnDetails.cfm?ColumnID=471
My other son-in-law works in a retail building supply wolking on concrete all day. He developed severe bone spurs on his heels. These shoes have changed his life. They just might save your knees.
Be aware that, due to your own genetic makeup, physical changes can occur throughout life regardless of external factors. Aids such as these shoes can help us deal with these changes, and meet life on its own terms.
The post further along in this thread about specialists in the medical field is right on target. Try the shoes but consult a medical professional as well.
--
Lee in Cave Junction, Oregon;
Gateway to the Oregon Caves
Edited 5/30/2004 2:10 am ET by Lee Eschen
Have you tried Birkenstocks? They help alot. Also good jogging shoes, such as Sauconys.
When I complain to my GP (family doctor) wife about aches and pains she reminds me that I'm getting older, and age doesn't come alone.
Do the conventional medical checks. Try working different. Even give the herbs a go, but in the end, you may just have to accept that you're no longer the buck you once were!
Edited 5/30/2004 4:10 am ET by kiwimac2
Buy a reclining chair, give the wife the jack plane, open a beer, and just do the Danish oiling when she finishes the goods!
That consultation cost less than the leg stockings from the Doc!!!!!!!
Mike
I hate to be negative about this problem but I've dkecided aftermuch unsuccessfull experiments that the problem can be diagnosed as "Too many years and too much abuse". The suggestion to sit down more often seems to be the one that works for me.
Well, the whole trick is to find ways to fight back against those "years of wear and abuse."
Two different people in this thread have suggested Z-Coil shoes, and I have tracked down a place that sells them locally, and am off to have a look this afternoon. But yikes!!! -- they look like high-heeled athletic shoes and sell for about $180 a pair.
But then, I have been wearing Skillers' pants for years -- so I already look pretty geeky out there.
BTW, Skillers are great for anyone up and down on their knees; cushioned pads fit into the pants, and they're way more comfortable than any conventional knee pads.
Here's the site:
http://www.skillers.com/
Thanks again to all who have responded.
Dear Nikkiwood,
Just to mention that used for over 20 years mainly wooden clogs. They have good features, such as good for cold floors, good for feet circulation, good plant support, no heat for foot, and so forth.
But since about 3 years ago, switched to Japanese style Gheta wooden sandals, and would personally say that that have found those simple gheta shoes better than the wooden clogs.
With the gheta, the sole does not touch the floor, but the floor goes against the two 'teeth' of the gheta. So they are also thermal, and have good posture and balance attributes. Japanese chefs and many workers use them for day-long activities. However, it can take time to learn to use them.
The switch to clogs, or to ghettas would be gradual. Life for instance, use them when relaxing, then try them on some other activity, and so on.
The advice that the vertebral column (spine) is the source of much ailment, is true. Yoga and meditation help on that end. None of these things are one-day cure, though.
There are many factor that relate to our good or bad health. Just as well, many of our habits and practices such as diet, posture, breathing, working, thinking, excercise, sleeping, sitting, and so on may or not need correction or improvement.
Hope you get better, friend.
-mbl-
Dear N.
I'm a physician and spend a lot of time on my feet. I sometimes even take what I tell patients to! I agree with the suggestion of taking glucosamine 1500 mg/day, and would also add light flexible shoes with Spenco inserts, and a stretching and strengthening routine for back (bentleg sit-ups), thighs/butt (squats with 50#barbell), legs (lift your weight onto ball of foot x 40, then other foot). And get a dog: he'll make you walk yourself healthy, and love you to boot.
Along with the glucosimene, take chondroitin, and MSM (helps with the inflamation).
Also, take vitiman C, a supplimental source of omega fatty acids, and whole leaf aloe.
I'm taking all this stuff now for the last few years, and when I stopped any of it, I could tell within 2 weeks.
2nd most important advice is to keep stretched out !
TO: all those who weighed in about concrete vs. wood floors.
What would you think of laminate flooring?
I was brought in to do the cut work on a Pergo floor, and they laid it over a sheet of 1/4" resilient foam. This seemed to give the floor a small, but perceptible bounce.
Do you think installing this stuff over concrete would be more effort/expense than the probable gain in comfort? How about if you laid the floor over 2 layers of the foam padding?
I think it would be very slippery with sawdust on it.
You're right. I didn't even think about that.
That's all I'd need: put in a floor to save my feet -- then fall and break my bones!!!!
It's not as pretty as laminate but the OSB I put down has lots of good points. The carpet pad under it gives just enough bounce to notice. I put it rough side up so it's definately not slippery. It takes and holds paint very well. Tools dropped on it don't break. It goes on very easily and most important, it's cheap!! Even at 17.95 a sheet which is double what it cost last year, the whole 1200 sq. ft. shop cost me less than $850.00 including the 6 mil. plastic, the 1/4" carpet pad, OSB, MDF base and paint! (Yeah I even put base molding around the shop; the new floor looked so nice, I just had to do it!)
Regards,
Mack "WISH IN ONE HAND, #### IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
Oh you mean plastic simulatied wood!
kind of slippery but maybe that's what you'd like..
I just opened the new issue of WOODWORK, and found a tip from Hank Lightfoot (Fairview, OR).
For better comfort on a concrete floor, he recommends horse mats -- they're 4' x 6', 3/4" thick, weigh about a 100 lbs. each, and are made from ground up tires.
Does anyone know about these mats (calling forest girl, out resident horse expert ...)?
Mr. Lightfoot claims they are firm enough so machines can be rolled around easily.
Are there different surface textures available -- say, something smooth enough that you can easily sweep sawdust over them?
Where does a city person, such as myself, find such mats?
Google horse mats and you will find plenty of info. I have some of the Grizzly Unimats and they are very comfortable. I have other foam and rubber mats in my workshop and the black Grizzly mats are the best, very comfortable to stand on. They were on sale for $27 a few months ago.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?itemnumber=H6572
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
I looked at the Grizzly link, and honestly, I would never have them in my shop -- but only because the open weave design would accumulate enormous amounts of dust. I would guess these open mats are made for areas where you could wash the floor down with a hose.
Thanks for the link, nonetheless.
I will Google horse mats and see what turns up.
Edited 6/5/2004 11:11 am ET by nikkiwood
I have not found the open design to be a problem. I have had some similar design Akro mats in my shop for years and saw dust has not been a problem. I use the shop vac to do an occasional clean-up. My shop is not spotless, maybe I am just a pig.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
nikki- my wife runs a stable and says 5 x 10 can go for 75-130 $ it depends which kind they have diffrent kind of composite's , 75 is the standard very dense rubber (very dense)and a whisper over 3/4".
"expectations are premeditated resentments"
Edited 6/5/2004 4:54 pm ET by the bear
Edited 6/5/2004 4:56 pm ET by the bear
Before this thread disappears into the archives abyss, I wanted to pull it up one last time in order to say how much I appreciate the stream of thoughtful advice and helpful suggestions.
I thank you -- and my "aching knees/feet" thank you.............................
It was known many many years ago that concrete floors are hard on legs, feet and whole body. The reason is thought to be that fact that concrete floors do not have any give or shock absorbing to them. Wood floors on joists have a very slight give and bounce to them that is easier on the body. Even though the flooring itself is very hard, the floor as a whole gives enough to be easier on us.
Even with carpet and pading it is easy to tell a concrete floor just by walking on it.
My feet had been hurting in all of my shoes except a pair of hiking boots. Last weekend I stopped in a sock store and bought a couple of pair of medium weight hiking socks made of Merino Wool. I haven't had any wool socks that fit my size 16 feet in a while. MY FEET DON'T HURT WHEN I WEAR THOSE SOCKS. It is great. I guess the cotton socks I was wearing were wore out.
I also recommend SmartWool socks. I wear them 100% of the time, very comfortable and they keep my sweaty feed dry. I like the light hiker best. It has the right thickness and is good for all but very hot days.
http://store.yahoo.com/sockco/stronon.html
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
Nikkiwood,
Have you been tested for Lyme disease? It is a common cause of joint pain, especially in the knees. If you ever had Lyme and were "cured" with a short round of antibiotics, it is likely that your problems are due to the chronic and harder to diagnose and treat form of the disease. The joint problems from chronic Lyme can take years to appear after the first exposure to the disease.
Unfortunately the blood tests for Lyme miss a fair number of cases. If you live in an area where Lyme disease is common, try to find a physician that specializes in the disease. Even in Connecticut, which has more Lyme disease than any other state, many physicians, including arthritis specialists, are clueless about treating or even diagnosing Lyme disease joint problems.
I could barely walk because of knee pain, until by pure luck, the problem was finally recognized as a symptom of chronic Lyme disease. Treated with a long run of antibiotics, my knees cleared up completely.
Good luck, if you need more info on Lyme contact me directly.
John W.
I know how insidious and difficult to diagnose Lyme disease can be. I never thought to get a test, though, first because my exposure to deer ticks is very limited, but also, I never had an incident after which I presented any of the classic, obvious symptoms.
Was your knee pain constant and chronic? Mine seems directly related to concrete floors. That is, if I stay off the floors for a week or so, my knee discomfort gets a whole ot better.
Also, are the tests any better these days? How frequently do the the test turn up false negatives?
Thanks for the info.
Nikkiwood,
I had better and worse days but the discomfort didn't seem to be especially related to what I was doing at the moment, it gradually worsened over a few months.
I work daily on a concrete floor, and I'm in my mid fifties, so it was easy to blame the floor and wear and tear for the cause. Two arthritis specialists, who knew I had been treated for Lyme disease a year earlier, both claimed the knee problems had nothing to do with Lyme. The second specialist was talking about eventually needing replacement knee joints.
It was only when I came down with another full blown case of Lyme that the knees cleared up completely, after six weeks of antibiotics given to treat the classic symptoms. This spring my knees started to hurt again and sure enough, two months later I developed a third round of Lyme. After three weeks of drugs, doxycycline twice a day, the knees are 90% better. My most recent test, when I had all of the classic symptoms for Lyme, came back negative.
I have only tested positive twice for Lyme, out of a dozen tests. In some studies they have found that the error rate for the test is as high as 40% false negative. It is hardly worth testing for, especially if the doctor refuses to treat you based on blood tests alone.
By the way, I never found a tick biting me and I never had a bite mark or the bulls eye rash. I had "floating" joint pain, a common symptom of chronic Lyme, for five years before my first showing of classic Lyme disease symptoms. The floating pain also disappeared when I was first treated for Lyme.
Lyme is best diagnosed based on symptoms, if the blood test backs up the diagnoses great, but a negative test doesn't mean you don't have Lyme disease. It is estimated that 20% of people who catch Lyme develop the chronic form of the disease and it can be crippling and life threatening. A young local woman is currently hospitalized because the Lyme has caused heart inflammation.
John W.
Edited 6/8/2004 10:40 am ET by JohnW
Edited 6/8/2004 6:21 pm ET by JohnW
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