Hello Gang,
Been looking at an add-on sliding table for my Powermatic 66, since I am cutting plywood for cabinets 80% of the time I use the saw.
I am looking at an add on because I can’t really afford a “real” slider at the present time and space is at a premium in my shop also.
So far I have looked at the excalibur, but have heard some negative things about them being flimsy/not holding alignment.
Someone on this forum posted a link of Laguna’s sliding table add-on (pic is posted below). Seems to be very heavy duty, but is priced about twice as much as the Excalibur (excalibur – $700 – Laguna – $1300)
O.K., so here I go with the naive questions – you long time slider users go easy on me:)
The excalibur table that the plywood would lay on measures 26″ X 32″. The Laguna table measures something like 14″ X 50″, and is configured similar to some of the real sliders I have seen (long and narrow sliding apparatus which attaches to the saw table)
What exactly supports the far end of a sheet of plywood when you make the cuts, whether on a real sliding table saw or an add on such as the Laguna? Do you put the waste side of the plywood sheet on the right of your blade and let your extension table support the stock?
Has anyone used either of these add-on units, and if so what do you think?
Does anyone know of a different product I should be looking at, other than these 2?
Thanks in advance,
Lee
Replies
I have the Jessem Masterslide which I'm very happy with. Less money than either option that you mentioned and I know it compares favorably with the Excaliber. I've never seen the Laguna up close. To your question, I have a workbench to the left of my table saw, just beyond the slider, which is leveled with the saw top and serves as support for longer pieces. Not ideal, but works fairly well.
Mark
Hi Mark,
Thanks for your reply. I did leave out the Jessem. However, if I understand correctly, it is not compatible with left-tilt saws in general (including Powermatic) so it leaves that brand out of the running for me. I'm not sure of the excalibur, but the info on the laguna site says their sliding attachment is compatible with Powermatic 66 saws.
So, I guess I need to check and see if the excalibur is even compatible with my saw.
Lee
From the Jessem website on the Mast-R-Slide http://www.jessem.com/mast_r_slide.htm
Fits left and right tilt saws and offers a 36 inch maximum cross cut.
So it looks like it should fit.
Many folks consider a left tilt saw as less desirable with a sliding table since the part on the sliding table will be under the blade when the blade is tilted. That's true with any sliding table on the left side of the blade.
Hi David,
Great catch. I stand corrected. I could have sworn I read somewhere that it was for right-tilt saws only.
The maximum cross cut of 36 inches will be a problem, though. There are times when I cross cut a whole sheet, so I feel like if I'm going to spend the cash, I better get the largest capacity I may need (at least 48 inches).
Thanks for clearing up the Jessem blunder. They do make excellent products.
Lee
I have the Jessem sliding table attached to my saw and while I like it fine it's not as heavy duty as the other two and won't support or crosscut a full sheet of plywood.
The Laguna table has an accessory clip-on support table and a small plate that is attached to the bottom/end of the fence that help support the weight of the material. The Excalibur (and Exaktor) has the same attachment for the end of the fence. I had the smallest Exaktor before the Jessem and had trouble keeping it aligned because it is supported by outboard legs.
My .02
Polar,
Thanks for your input. I sent Laguna an email requesting some product info on their sliding table. The web site photo doesn't show the support table, so I wasn't sure how it worked.
BTW, is the exactor and excalibur the same product?
Lee
The table is listed under accessories. I'm going to try to attach a link here.
http://www.lagunatools.com/telescoping.htm
Hope that works. From what I understand the man that builds the Exaktor tables was once involved with Excalibur and now builds his own line. They look pretty much the same but have some differences.
Bill
Polar,
Thanks for that link. I never thought to look at the accessories page.
Lee
I've been looking at the Jessem Mas-R-Slide as well. I'm not sure I understand why the maximum crosscut capacity is only 36 inches. Is this just a limitation of the fence stop?
The crosscut capacity is the maximum distance you can get between the face of the fence and the leading edge of the saw blade when you have the table pulled all the way back.
John W.
OMG! Wow! do I feel like an idiot! That is so obvious to me now! Must drink more coffee!
BTW: with the price of a sliding table, is it more cost effective to get something like the Festool plunge cut saw with guide rail (http://www.festoolusa.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=3&prodid=561188)? Seems like that could also be more versatile, but is that too much of a hassle?
Lastly, its hard to want to pay that kind of money for something that doesn't plug-in. ;-).
Well I guess the Festool Saw would really loses out if you want to cut panels that aren't 90 degrees to the blade though. So I guess a sliding table is the better overall option.
The Festool with the MFT1080 provides for angle cuts. But space and cost (if you have to buy everything) may convince you to buy a sliding table. I like the Laguna Tools, at least on paper. But it is pricy.
Edited 4/9/2007 10:10 pm ET by Cincinnati
Cincinnati & Jointerman:
I think where the Festool loses out is in productivity.
For example: My current job required 28 sheets of plywood. You could figure each sheet gets cut into at least 4 pieces, some sheets get cut into as many as 16-20 pieces. I will go out on a limb here and say that the Festool could not possibly be as fast as a tablesaw with a rip fence/crosscut sled. I run a 1 man (me) cabinet shop with a family to support. The sliding table, in my opinion would speed productivity and increase accuracy. I appreciate the input, so please don't write me off as being rude, it's just that I don't think the festool fits in with what I am trying to do.
And yes, I will agree that the Laguna is pricey! However, the excalibur feedback I have read is about 50/50 good/bad, and the Jessem capacity is not what I would like to have.
Lee
Edited 4/10/2007 12:45 am by mapleman
Mapleman,
Sounds like you got a good grip on the situation. This is exactly the reason I just purchased a Felder 500P sliding table saw. I've been contemplating it for several years now and finally just went out and did it. I've been studying the various saws on the market for over a year now and finally made my choice. Laguna does make a great sliding table saw, although if you've been doing any research at all on this forum, you'll see that they have suffered greatly from a lack of good service. They were beat up pretty badly on this forum last year. But not to start that all over again, who knows, maybe they have improved in that area since then. I went with the Felder for several reasons. The quality seems to be superior to all the other lower end sliding table saws that I observed. They do seem to cost a little more than most other comparable saws on the market that I researched, but in the end I felt it was worth the extra cost. But then again this all may be determined by what kind of deal you can work out with your sales person. And believe me when I tell you I've done a lot of research. I've spent many, many hours talking to salesman, saw and cabinet shop owners also. I like you am a one man shop, although I don't rely on my woodwork for income. So purchasing a sliding table saw in the $10,000 plus range was just to much to justify as a, mostly hobby and occasional work, saw. And I think you'll find that most modern cabinet shops today, that are doing any real amount of work wouldn't even consider a sliding, scoring type saw much under 10 grand, mainly because it just wouldn't have the features on it that they would need. Although, I do know a number that are still using their old Powermatic 66 or Unisaw and wishing that they had a good sliding scoring panel saw. Most of the shop owners that I know, that don't already own one, are just waiting for a good deal, or what they percieve as a good value. Some just have a hard time dealing with these foreign Co's attitude about customer service, which doesn't always line up with the American concept of the customer always being right and needing parts, if something breaks, now. Then again some of their reluctance may be due to their wanting to support the American job market, which would be difficult since there are no American Co's building sliding table saws in America. I also looked into all the add on sliders and the Festool and Eurekazone panel cutting systems but in the end decided that I just needed to bite the bullet and get on with the unit I felt was best for my situation. Hope I didn't bore you to much Mapleman. Good luck with your decision!
Danny
Edited 4/10/2007 3:56 am ET by brownman
Hi Brownman,
Thanks for your reply. No boredom here! I was hoping someone would weigh in that had a real slider. I know there are a few slider users here at knots and I wanted to get their opinion for a well rounded discussion. I looked at Felder's site, at both the Felder and Hammer saws. Very nice products. I was disappointed not to be able to see the prices, I believe you had to register on their site? Or have a salesman call you back? I didn't want to bother with that since a new saw is really not in the budget for me just yet. But I'm sure you got a great saw. I keep hearing about Felder and Hammer both being great products.
And yes, I remember the Laguna threads of the last year or so, which has me a bit leary of them. But I did speak with a salesman yesterday ( I requested info on a few items, so they wanted to call and make sure all my contact info was correct - yeah right:) but he was very knowledgeable. I asked him some very specific things about the sliding attachment and he didn't seem to guess at anything, he knew the answers right off the bat. So, for the time being, I am leaning toward the Laguna, unless someone else can steer me toward something else that is in the same league.
Thanks for your input,
Lee
Lee,As a longtime user and proponent of "real" sliders, I was watching this thread but didn't feel I should butt in. But I'm gonna give you my 2 cents anyway...If you're doing cabinet work for a living, cutting full sheets of ply, etc. you need a full-sized slider. Period. "Full sized" means it rips or crosscuts the whole 8' length at least. My SCMI has 10' of carriage slide. If I were you I'd be looking at a solid used saw like this:http://www.exfactory.com/seephoto.aspx?showall=yes&recnum=PS%2D010993Don't worry about parts and service. A saw like this will work for another 10 years without asking anything. For $800 a year you're in another league altogether. It will pay for itself in time and added accuracy within a month or two. Honest.David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
Hi David,
Thanks for weighing in. I appreciate your thoughts and I definitely respect your opinions. There are a few things that I feel are keeping me from getting a "real" slider at the present time.
The first is space. That altendorf is a great saw, and a good value for the price. But I just do not have the space that a saw like that requires. Well, let me re-phrase that. Could I fit it in my shop? Yes. Could I fit anything else? Probably not. I'm working in a 30 X 40 shop presently (at my home). I am set up in about half of the space (20 X 30), with the saw and 4 X 8 outfeed table permanently fixed and most of the other machines on casters for mobility. On the other side of the shop, I try to keep 1/2 clear for storing/staging cabinets as they are going through the assembly stages. The remaining 1/4 of the shop has some "junk" and my wife's ceramic kiln and supplies. She loves her hobby and I don't feel it is right to boot her out of her spot. Now, could I rent or build a larger space? See next paragraph.
The second is cost. That saw is a pretty good deal, from what I have been seeing on the internet. I have looked at used and new saws sporadically for a while. However, having been in business for a little over a year, I have struggled with getting my business off the ground. I really didn't have enough of a nest egg saved up, so I had to compensate by using credit cards. Now, I have been making great strides to pay off some outstanding debts, and have reduced my monthly bills by a good bit in the last 2 months or so. Which gives me a little room to breathe, so to speak. Could I go out and charge a new or used saw? Certainly. I have flawless credit, and plenty of it. Do I want another note looming over my head? Not really. I worry constantly about paying the bills as it is. I also started out with mostly hobby-type equipment, as building furniture was just a hobby until I "took the plunge" into self employment.
So, some of my other equipment needs replacing. I have enough saved up to buy a larger planer outright. I currently have a 12" dewalt - planing about 150 bf per job (every 4-6 weeks). It's doing the trick, but slow, and sooner or later I will burn it up completely. I also need to replace my 6" jointer, so that I can face joint larger boards before running through the planer. But I am making due with what I have so that I can replace things by paying cash rather than making more debt.
Anyhow, I'm getting a bit long winded. Thanks for joining in, I knew the real slider users would frown on an idea such as an add on. And I understand your/their viewpoint completely. I am just juggling with trying not to take on more debt than I can handle, and growing my business at the same time. The add-on would take a bit of a load off of my back, and I'm hoping increase my accurracy as well. But the deal is not complete, and I am keeping all my options open. And a real slider is on the want list, but it may have to wait a little longer....
Cheers,
Lee
Bravo Lee, I completely understand your priorities. Keep one eye on the bank account and the other on the sawblade.
best of luck,
David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
Hi Lee
Well I'm another full size slider jockey - I'm now on my second Altendorf although I've run SCMs, Martin, Wadkin, etc. I did spend some time in the past using a Wadkin SP12 and before that a Wadkin AGSP (slightly bigger than a PM66 but with a 4 foot crosscut). I've also had experience of using Holz-Her wallsaws and I use a Bosch plunge saw/guide rail system which is similar to the Festool system.
Put simply if you want to saw up to 10 or 15 sheets a day quickly and accurately an 8ft or 10ft slider cannot be beaten. Providing you have the space for one. With a slider you no longer need to worry about the mill supplying out of square sheets (which they do) or ropey edges (which they also do) and the scorer will handle melamine with ease. You can stack two sheets at a time of 3/4in material, but no more than that and a modern slider will generally have available accessories such as ripping shoes (for straight-edging waney edge hardwoods), a parallel strip ripping accessory (for trimming/resawing long narrow strips on the carraige), and I have a mitre fence some 3 feet long and marked in 0.5 degree increments which makes the average table saw device, including the aftermarket ones) look very sad indeed. With a tilting arbor (not all of the older ones had this) a slider can replace a table saw completely. For panel work most of the cuts are done on the carraige rather than on the table - takes less effort and is faster/more accurate - so a different way of working is needed. My Altendorf F45 will accommodate 450mm (18in) blades with the scorer out so deep ripping is a breeze, especially with 7.5HP on tap. The crown guard swings out of the way in about 10 seconds for slicing tops off boxes. Yes, I'm a convert, but there are downsides, such as the 20 x 14 ft footprint the beast requires, the fact that for maximum efficiency it really needs a second man to offload for you unless you happen to like walking round the carraige outrigger to the back of the saw and sawing small items can sometimes be a pain as the slider just gets in the way. And you won't normally get a dado head on one, if that's your thing (in any ase a rebate block on a shaper is a much better approach in a production shop). Overall the compromise works for me and I really like my Alt, but if I had to regularly process 20 or more sheets a day I'd be looking at a beam saw to replace the F45.
Wall saws can do most of what a panel saw can do with sheet material and some even have scoring blades for melamine. They also take up much less floor space and can generally saw two or even three sheets in one pass and they can be a lot easier to load (less back strain - panel saws work best with a fork truck at the infeed side if you are volume provcessing). However, they cannot do bevel edge cuts or mitre cuts so if you envisage incorporating these in your work a wall saw isn't going to hack it. Also they won't do solid wood at all, so you'll need to retain a table saw as well unless all you do is boxes. For shops cranking out simple melamine or plywood boxes with limited space these machines are probably the best option
Half-size sliders with a 4ft or 5ft stroke are very much a compromise. What we call a "curate's egg" - good in parts. They crosscut well and purpose built machines such as the smaller Felder/Hammer machines and the older Wadkin CP12/SP12 generally have a scorer fitted to handle melamine, but they are a much lower volume machine then the full-size sliders because you have to physically man-handle the sheet onto the saw and push it across against the rip fence to make the long rip cuts before doing your crosscuts. This makes them more labour intensive, slower and less accurate than a full size slider. The large carraige to the left of the saw can get in your way when you are processing solid materials but at least in the modern Felders, etc this can be folded out of the way or removed when not in use meaning that the saw then acts very much like a conventional table saw. These machines also have another trick up their sleeve - many modern ones are offered with a shaper arbor built in which is also capable of utlising the sliding carraige. In one package you therefore get a table saw, a half-size slider, a spindle moulder and a single-end tenoner. Overall if the bufget is there these are a superb option for the small to medium size trade shop doing a mixture of joinery and cabinet work
Below these you have table saws with sliding tables bolted on. If you ever use a slider in anger you'll begin to realise just how limited these really are. A very few machines like these have scoring blades - essential for cutting melamine cleanly - but they are less friendly in other areas with many of them lacking the sliding fence plate rip fences which have been standard on panel machinery here in Europe for thirty or more years. The ability to switch from a tall through fence (for ripping panels), to a short rip fence (for solid stock ripping or as a length stop for repetitive crosscutting), to a low fence which gets under the crown guard when sawing very narrow strips (meaning that there is never any need to remove the crown guard) in seconds is another time-efficient feature of both sliders and Euro saws in general.
Finally you have the power saw and guide rail combinations. Well I use one, but no way could I run a production shop on one. They are accurate enough to get you going, in fact with the right rail system they are arguably better at 8ft rip cuts that the half-size gliders, but they are so slow to use in comparison with a slider. As a get you started option they work well, although I personally wouldn't want to use one year in year out for the rest of my life. I suppose the best thing I can say is that if I were to downsize to a small shop I'd seriously look at a Festool-type saw rail system in conjunction with a half-size slider/shaper combo as a good value, efficient solution
Hope that is insightful enough! ;-)
Scrit
Scrit,
Well said! That's quite a bit of useful info. Thanks for taking the time to check in with your observations. I will study them carefully.
Lee
Scrit,
Thanks for chiming in on this subject. I thoroughly enjoyed your professional insight and wisdom you've gained from your experiences in using saw machines in the shop. I believe it did take us far to long to see the light, here in America, concerning the European sliding ,scoring type saws. I think it would be fair to say now, that probably most if not all medium to large shops are now using sliders , either vertical(wall) or horizontal here in the States. There are still a fair number of small shops who just for whatever reason haven't taken the plunge. The main reason why I really liked hearing from you is that your thought process has confirmed to me that I probably did just make the best possible decision for my situation concerning machinery purchases. I have a smaller shop and don't do a lot of cabinet work, but want more accuracy and speed than I'm getting now from my Powermatic 66. I did just purchase a half slider (Felder K500P)and will probably now purchase the Festool or like system to complete what I also see as a good value/ efficient situation. Thanks for helping me to feel good about my thought processes and purchasing decisions.
DannyEdited 4/13/2007 1:42 am ET by brownmanEdited 4/13/2007 1:43 am ET by brownman
Edited 4/14/2007 12:34 am ET by brownman
I added a Jessem sliding attachment to my old Unisaw about six months ago. The capacity of this is OK for what I do. Bigger is often better but since I'm not in the cabinet trade, I didn't want to invest in a more expensive attachment. I break the full sheets of ply into smaller chunks before going to the tablesaw. This works for me but the projects I have are furniture pieces, not cabinets. Mine are labor intensive with a small percentage of the work done at a tablesaw. Nevertheless, I've come to realize the usefulness of a slider through my experience with the Jessem. The primary advantage that I see in the slider thing is it's accuracy and ease of use. It's nice knowing that the cut in a chunk of sheet goods will be square. With little stretch of my imagination I can visualize using a big slider and dispensing with the fence altogether as far as sheet good is concerned. One thing I don't like about the add-on Jessem is the fact that the portion of the table adjacent to the blade does not slide. Because of this I'm really uncomfortable using it to crosscut small pieces. I still use my shop-made sled to do these. The more expensive add-ons still do not allow for a slideing table immediately adjacent to the blade and that, I think, is their biggest disadvantage.
Sapwood,Thanks for the feedback on the Jessem. Could you tell us about your experience installing and setting it up? How long did it take and were their any problems.I also am not in the cabinet trade and I'm thinking of attaching this to my delta contractors saw or possibly getting a new saw altogether ($$$).
Here is a link to a detailed review of the Jessem slider on another forum. Should answer some of your questions.http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7584&highlight=jessem+slider
The link that QCInspector posted will tell you more than I have time to write. Suffice to say that the install was very straightforward. It may have taken me a bit more time than someone else, but I'm sort of a finicky sort. There's only one fault I found with the Jessem. The brackets that hold the fence to the siding table have no adjustment to make the fence perpendicular to the table. My fence tipped back at the top. A call to Jessem resulted in a very prompt mailing of replacement brackets that also were out of square. Then I took matters into my own hands and made some tapered shims to correct the misalignment. Perhaps I got the only four out of square brackets ever produced, but I doubt it. Even with the bracket problem I'd still recommend the slider attachment because the remedy is relatively easy and permanent.
Hi,
you should try and get a response from sgain dubh. His input to this discussion topic is usually around method of work and the changes that come with a 'real' sliding saw. You may be able to find some relevant previous posts by searching.
dave
A fellow in my woodworking club showed me his Inca saw to which he attached the Robland sliding table. It gave me hope because I couldn't afford a Felder and wanted something with the capacity for 4x8 plywood sheets. He told me that General made a sliding table to go with their table saw. A right tilt is recommended because the motor swings in the way the slider when tilting the blade. Now to the useul info.On this slider, the support comes from an 'outrigger', an arm that pivots under the table as it moves fore and aft. Space would be a problem because the crosscut fence (something you only get with a sliding table) extends 64"+ to the left of the blade. The sliding table is useless for ripping an 8-foot panel. In fact it won't even crosscut the 4-foot dimension. Almost, but not quite. I didn't want the Excalibur because of those feet sticking down, taking up valuable shop space. How to strike a balance here? I don't know. Mine is super fast and can support a heavy board easily. But for full-sized stuff, I have to make a few cuts with my Festool saw.Gary Curtis - northern Calif.
Gary,
The Felder that I purchased will cut all the way through a 5 ft wide panel, so I can at least cross cut 4x8 stock and 5x5 baltic birch panels. The fence that comes with this saw is 102", which is longer than I really wanted, so I may purchase an additional shorter one to do most of my panel processing. My shop is only 600 sq ft and I'm not doing a lot of cabinet work and don't plan on doing a lot, so this is the perfect upgrade for me, from my Powermatic 66. Now I can at least process my stock quicker and more accurately. your Festool system is really a great system for breaking your larger stock down to finish on your slider. I've been breaking my larger stock down for years, using a 9'x 3 1/2" by 1/4" solid aluminum bar, as a saw guide, I purchased from a local metal supplier. I still may get a Festool or Eurekazone system for straightening the edges of longer rough milled lumber,as that would probably be more accurate and convenient than my aluminum bar.
Have a good one! Danny in San Diego
Mapleman,I agree that a sliding table is best for what you describe. My only response to the productivity concern is in this: I have not done this, but in the video Festool produces, they demo stacking sheets the thickness of the max cut and cutting them all together. In my mind, this is still a workaround. My reply was simply to give you an option that may or may not be a viable option to you. I stress that I have not tried this and I am not a production shop. I have done a fair amount of homework on this subject.Please post a reply with your decision on which sliding table you are going with and your experience in connecting it to your saw and getting it aligned. The Laguna Slider is on my wish list.
I recently purchased a Unisaw (with 40" unifence) and just completed cutting up sheets for two kitchens (about 30). I too have a workbench to the left of the saw and use it to support full length sheets while crosscutting. I prefered to break up the sheets by crosscut with factory edge against the rip fence. I do find the first cut a bit tedious, but allow an extra 1/2" to trim of edge afterward.
This method worked well with prefinished veneer PB which has a straight & square factory edge. However, it was a challenge with the melamine, which has a poor edge that is usually not straight.
Just wondering if who else crosscuts full sheets with a rip fench, and what your experience has been doing so.
Cheers, Nathan
Hi Nathan,
I'm just finishing up making all my melamine kitchen cab carcasses and, like you, did everything using the rip fence. There are a few "tricks" I learned along the way as some aspects of melamine make it a pain to work with (weight, chipout, etc.). These tricks were new to me, but I'm sure more experienced folks are already aware of them (I'm a hobby woodworker). Buggered up a few cuts at the start until I worked it out.
I have a General International 2 hp, 10" hybrid saw with a 52" Besmeier (sp?) fence. Featherboards don't grip melamine worth a darn, neither do the pawls on the factory blade guard/splitter. I use Board Buddies (wheels that only turn one way if you haven't seen 'em, about $50/pair) attached to the fence, all I could find to reduce kickback. The friction between the wheels and melamine is still a bit low for my liking, but this is the best solution I could find. The buddies are angled inwards and do a pretty good job of keeping the melamine tight to the fence.
A removable infeed table (i.e., folding leg, hooks into the gap between the saw and fence rail) is indispensible. Folding side support table, hinged and bolted to the side of the saw, just wide enough to support the 48" wide falling piece. Two folding outfeed tables, bolted to the back of the saw table.
All these support tables sound like a lot of work to assemble and a hassle to navigate around, but they're not that bad. After cross-cutting a few sheets, they fold out of the way once they're not needed. About two hours to throw them together and bolt to the saw, tops built from melamine scraps.
The factory edges on my melamine sheets are ugly but fairly straight. I found it really important to run a piece of scrap along the edge that's against the rip fence to knock off burrs of the melamine coating (like burnishing a scraper). The fence and blade are perfectly parallel, but when the burrs weren't knocked off I had a couple near misses with kickback that spooked me. After removing the burrs, I found the factory edge straight enough for a square, clean crosscut.
This is a longer post than I'd thought it would be when I started! Hope somewhere in this verbage is something you'll find useful.
Cheers,
Pete
Cincinnati,
I understand your point completely. I guess I didn't really think of the stacking aspect of the operation. I guess you would still be limited by how many you could stack on top of each other? Anyeway, like I said, I didn't want to come across as being rude or bashing Festool, because I think they make a great product. I love the fact that they put so much emphasis in engineering their tools to do their job very well. I would put the Laguna stuff in the same category as Festool from the engineering standpoint. I do know there is a possibility for them to slack in the customer service department, however.
But as I said to brownman in the above post, I am leaning toward the Laguna. Sine you are interested in one, I will fill you in on what the sales guy told me yesterday. I don't think they can discount the tools themselves, but they can discount the heck out of the accessories. For example:
Sliding table: $1395
Fence extension: $155 (my price $105)
Clip on support table $210 (my price $135)
Shipping to me in MS is about $225. The sliding table weighs 275#
The unit is made in Bulgaria, in a plant that some of their other equipment is manufactured in. They import 10 of these at a time, about every 8 weeks. The last 10 were sold before they came in. Out of the next 10 coming in in the first week of June, 5 are sold already.
Here are some pictures the salesman emailed me showing the slider attched to a powermatic 66 like mine:
I will keep you posted as to what I decide and if I get the attachment, I will let everyone know how the deal and the installation went.
Lee
P.S. OK, I loaded the same photo twice by accident, and the second photo I wanted to add will not upload for some reason.
Edited 4/10/2007 11:00 am by mapleman
Here's the other photo:
Dear Maple,
Cool post! I am PM66 user as well and have toyed with the idea of adding a slider or getting a dedicated slider (Minimax etc.). It just takes $!! The Laguna looks pretty beefy, certainly a step above the Excaliber, which always appeared a bit rickety. Those legs still concern me, however, not a lot, but I would prefer a system without it. Jet, at one point was offering a sliding attachment with an outrigger system like the Euro models, but that appeared to be short lived. Let us know how you situation turns out.Best,John
Nope! I was wrong! Amazon has it listed at $636.85. Now, it were only gold,Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.http://www.amazon.com/Jet-708110K-Swing-Sliding-Table/dp/B00005A3GUJohn
WOW, that looks nice!
Yeah, I thought so!John
Dear Maple,
A quick look at the reveiws yeilded this as the most negative: Mostly 4 stars.Doesn't fit PM66 , but can with xtra modifications, February 16, 2005
Reviewer: B.H. (West Coast of Wash) - See all my reviews
I have used many styles of sliding tables saws, including the $15,00 types and this this isn't bad for the money.
Prior to purchasing this slide arm, I contated a Jet technition to see if it works on a Powermatic66 and he said yes, but with some modifications. These modifications consisted of drilling new holes in the tube that mounts to the side of the saw that the bearings run on and this wasn't to hard. Next modification was a 1/4" thick steel plate was needed to be bent or welded to create a piece of 6" angle iron because the bottom base of the PM66 saw is too round on the corners. It wound up being a piece of 6"x6"x10" that I welded to the base and then drilled holes in that to mount the pivot part of the arm. I used a local sheet metal/metal shop to make the part and it cost around $45. The plasic dust sheild on the side on the saw for enclosing the base can't be used. And the slide hits the top of the motor when the base is raised all the way up. But only about the last 1/4" or so, the rest of the blade height is not a problem when using the sliding arm/table. Basically, the assembly took less than a day to setup Jet should consider using bearings in the pivot arm to help reduce wear on the lower arm/table support. They should also try to figure a way to eliminate the tube that sticks out in front of the saw because it gets in the way(most sliding tables have this problem) The saw was shipped with a slightly bowed fence rail and the new one was shipped to me within 1-2 weeks(not a problem). I have seen this type of problem on aluminum extrusions before. No problems on getting parts except that you have to go through Tool Crib(not amazon) for parts, not Jet directly. It took about a day to figure this out. I told them what I needed and the parts were sent no questions asked Best,John
Mapleman,
If you or any one else reading this discussion should decide on purchasing the Jessem Master Slide, I have a brand new one for sale. I purchased it around Christmas time. In between that time and now I have purchased a Felder 500P sliding table saw , so will not be needing it. It's still new in the box. I got a great deal on it and would be willing to let it go for what I paid for it($444.00) In fact I'll go and list it in the classifieds right now.
Danny
Hi Danny,
Thanks, I saw the ad before I read this post. If the capacity was a little greater, I would have been happy to take it off of your hands. You shouldn't have any problems getting rid of it, it's a good piece of equipment from what I understand, and you have it at a great price.
Good luck,
Lee
I have the large Excalibur and used it for 10 years (I no longer cut sheet goods). With the fence in the away position it will crosscut 49" and the extender rail will support the end of the sheet out to 94". Once adjusted, I never had alignment problems with it.
BTW, mine is for sale in Maryland for $250. If interested, contact me at [email protected].
Dick
I noticed that you recently purchased a Felder 500pro. I just finished uncrating the same model and would really appreciate the opportunity to ask/e-mail you about your assembly and calibration experience. I finally decided on the Felder after 1st starting with the idea that an aftermarket sliding table would improve my accuracy, crosscutting, and safety concerns. After much thought and research, it became clear that a sliding saw would offer the best possible solution to my concerns. Since you have the add-on table for sale I'm curious about your decision to buy a Felder. Thanks!
Hi Levelwind,
I won't be receiving my Felder K500P until the AWFS show in Las Vegas this coming July. I purchased the demo model that they'll be bringing to the show.I believe I got an excellent deal since by picking it up there I avoided paying State sales taxes and the cost of shipping. On top of that I got a discount for purchasing the show demo . So since you already have yours I would appreciate any heads up on set up and tunning that you would offer. Before I even installed my Jessem Master slide I decided it just wasn't going to be heavy duty enough for my needs and would rather have a larger cross cut capacity. I've played with the Jessem Master slide at the Rockler store on many occasions and it's very smooth and solidly built. IMO it's a definite step up from a nicer after market miter gauge with extended fence, as far as cross cutting wider lumber and smaller panels under 36" is concerned. But it really can't hold a candle to a real massive Euro slider like our Felder K500P. Felder offered the nicest half slider I could find on the market. It just took me awhile to go thru the thought process to justify spending that that kind of money.
DannyEdited 4/14/2007 12:36 am ET by brownmanEdited 4/14/2007 12:37 am ET by brownmanEdited 4/14/2007 12:46 am ET by brownmanEdited 4/14/2007 12:47 am ET by brownman
Edited 4/14/2007 12:48 am ET by brownman
I originally got to see the quality of the Felder machinery at the Atlanta IWF Aug.06. You were smart to negotiate the purchase of one of the show models at the LV show this year. One minor problem that I'm sure will be resolved by the time you pick yours up was that the manual for the saw sent with mine was written in German. The US Felder group have been very helpful and sent an english version of the 500 series combination machine. Helpful with the sliding table side but different rip fence and extension tables on the saw than on the combo jointer/planer. USFelder sent pictures with the ####'y diagram so bolt size, washer pattern was evident. They have been very helpful. English version of saw only to be sent when in stock. Managed to get it all set up and calibrated this past weekend. Factory settings were dead on for the most part. Good luck with yours-- If I can help in any way when you get yours just let me know.
Levelwind,
Thanks for getting back to me. It's nice to have someone whom I can hold hands with through this experience. I do want to keep in touch with you, so I've sent you a personal e-mail. Please look for it as it may come up on your junk e-mail file. It will come up under the title Felder K500P.
Thanks Again,
Danny
Being that no one else has suggested this alternative I will: a vertical panel saw is a very effective tool for breaking down full sized panels and, when properly tuned up, a panel saw can yield accurately sized and square pieces.
Because of the way the saw cuts there is usually some tearout on one face but the price is competitive with larger sliding tables, they take up very little floor space, and, when compared to a table saw, it is very easy to load a panel onto the tool for cutting. In a small shop with a modest budget it would be my first choice for doing panel work.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
Have you considereed the PM sliding table? It's probably cheaper than the Laguna and guaranteed to fit.
Rick,
I have seen powermatic sliders in catalogs, but I haven't checked to see if they sell it as an add-on accessory.
Thanks for the tip.
Lee
Mapleman,
I'm not sure where you can buy it, but any PM dealer could order it for you.
R
Hi Rick,
After googling "powermatic sliding table", this is what I have found so far:
Powermatic sells a sliding table to add on to their model 66, which looks exactly like an excalibur or exactor clone.
They also sell at least 2 "real" sliding table saws: a 12" and a 16", which are configured similar to the european sliders. These sliding tables do not look compatible with a model 66, as the saw has a completely different layout.
So, were you speaking of the excalibur clone, or do you know of a different product that I have not been able to locate?
Thanks,
Lee
Hi Lee,
I was thinking of the excaliber clone. I don't remember a lot about it but I think it will cross cut a sheet of ply. Those other saws by PM are probably out of my $ range so I never bothered much with them. I occasionally give some thought to the excaliber clone and then forget about it. I just don't have the room in an 11 1/2 X 27 shop. I've give more serious thought to the JessEm along with my Festool saw and rails.
R
Rick,
Gotcha. Those will crosscut a sheet of ply, but I have read some mixed reviews on the net. Some people love theirs and swear they never go out of alignment, others say they could never get theirs spot-on.
Thanks,
Lee
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