Replies

1. 
   JMcIntee | Nov 08, 2002 05:18am | #1

   Good question,Jerry. I am in the same situation building a new house. The stairs are built out of plywood, but I managed to obtain a complete stairset of quartersawn white oak. I was planning on just screwing everything from underneith, but now that you mention it, squeeks may develop.

   I am certainly open for ideas.

2. 
   ian | Nov 08, 2002 11:04am | #2

   just a thought. 

   Plywood shouldn't move with the seasons, so your plywood stairs should never squeak.  If the facing timber is screwed to the plywood from the underside using round holes at the front and slightly elongated holes at the rear, (one way would an oversize hole and a washer) then seasonal movement can occur without splitting the face boards.  The facing borads should only squeak if they touch, so allow for a (very) little clearance between the risers and treads.

   You could also try post this on Breaktime

3. 
   BG | Nov 08, 2002 02:59pm | #3

   Jerry,

   Your situation may not allow this but, when Norm builds new stairs he routs the boards into the sides and wedges the boards up tight....puts a nail in the wedge only. I think he puts a little glue on the riser where it meets the tread?  

1. 
   trialnut | Nov 08, 2002 04:09pm | #4

   Do like the old timers did for floors and stairs. Put a layer of 15# building felt between the sub and the finish. Also helps stop dust infiltration on floors.The Professional Termite

4. 
   UncleDunc | Nov 08, 2002 06:21pm | #5

   First, I'll echo Ian's advice to pose this question at Breaktime.

   One issue that comes to mind is that if the stairs weren't originally designed to have an inch of thickness added to each tread, you're going to end up with one step an inch short at the top and one an inch short at the bottom. Building codes typically specify that all the steps be the same height, to within some tolerance. The point of this is that a next step that isn't pretty darn close to where your foot expects to find it creates a fall hazard. You can get used to almost anything, so the people who live in the house can adapt, but guests would be at risk.

5. 
   floman47 | Nov 08, 2002 07:44pm | #6

   The way I’ve installed hundreds of staircases in Newport and Laguna Beach CA is to glue with Bostik 690 urethane adhesive (no felt paper). You can get it from a hardwood flooring wholesaler. You need glue so that they don’t “crack” and squeak!  First sand all paint, dirt off the plywood and check it to see if is tight and no squeaks. Then check for level.  If it’s out use shims. What Uncle Dunc said is right you need be within 3/8” (International code) from top to bottom.  I don’t use screws.  Most of my contractors don’t like the plugs so I nail, but this is up to you.  I thank screws are better.  If you can screw up from the bottom that’s even better.  I scribe my treads tight to the skirt boards but rub a little paraffin wax on the edges so it won’t squeak. Then I scribe the risers tight to the top of the treads.

   Jeff in so cal      

   PS: the reason old timers used felt paper was when they would “rack” (lay out ahead) a room the wood would slide better on diagonal sheeting (1”x 6”).  Now most floor men use it because they think it stops squeaks or “that’s the way my dad did it”.  IT DOES NOTHING!!

1. 
   racwood | Nov 13, 2002 06:43am | #7

   Jeff, a couple of questions from a Norcal (Davis) neophyte:

   I am going to install Dog Fir treads on my exisitng (plywood?) staircase (3 yr old tract home).  Material is old 1" thick salvaged highscool bleacher steps,  Nice tight CVG - very pretty.  After planing/sanding I'll end up with +/- 7/8" thickness.  Currently there are two 3/8" bolt holes near each end which I'll have to plug.  Should I use these holes to accomodate some sort of fastener and then plug or just plug and go your adhesive route?

   Secondly, Should I prime or finish the underside of traed before installing?  What finish would you recommend (not High gloss!)

   What would you recommend for use as the riser which I hope to finish with white paint?  A good thin plywood?

   Unrelated to this particular issue I have one last question: How do you attatch spindles to stairs?  First to the top hand rail and THEN to the treads or visa versa? Someday I hope to replace the spindles and handrail with a nice DF rendition.  Thanks in advance.  Rich Collins

1. 
   floman47 | Nov 13, 2002 09:37pm | #8

   Hi Rich

   (1)  Sounds like you have some nice material.  If you can use the holes for fasteners go     for it and maybe some in the middle also.  I usually put six nails or screws in a tread (and adhesive).

    (2)  You don’t need to coat the under side. The adhesive will do that for you and it will stick to the raw wood better

    (3)  For the risers I use MDF or birch ply (and adhesive).

   (4)    Spindles have a round tendon on the bottom.  So you just drill the hole.  The top depends on what type you get square or round.  I pin nail the top only (and glue).

    

               Jeff in so cal  

   Edited 11/13/2002 3:57:38 PM ET by FLOMAN47

6. 
   PTurtiak | Nov 14, 2002 03:52am | #9

   Hi Jerry,

   In the past, I have done what you are asking using ash.  I dislike the look of nails, screws, and plugs.  They all look cheep to me so I did not use them.  I used wood glue only as most white or carpenter glue will hold 2500 to 3500 pounds which is stronger than the bond between the wood fibers.

   As I could not stop the use of the stairs, I completed one step at a time.  I applied the stair nosing first using 8 biscuits for alignment but mostly for the added strength they provide.  I made a jig to hold the nosing on while the glue dried overnight.  The next day I completed the tread and started the next nosing.  I worked bottom up as it gave me easier access to my tools.  For the stair stringers it was impossible to cut the wood to fit properly.  Although your stairs look straight and true, I believe you will find that no two steps are the same, some rise up others down.  In the end the customer just painted them.  I took 60 hours to complete the 12 foot staircase to the basement.  This included milling, installation and, finishing.

   My advice is to throw the stairs you bought away and start over.  Although this sounds drastic, if you take into account the time you will spend to cut and glue the treads, risers and the stringers to the existing stairway it will cost you more time and grief than to start again. 

   I would use 1" plywood for the treads, 1/2" plywood for the risers and, depending on the stair stringer length, if under 8 feet long: use 2 pieces of 3/4 plywood, if the stringer is longer than 8 feet: laminate 4 pieces of 3/8 plywood and stagger the joints.  Glue the Mahogany to all of the stair parts before you start to machine the stairs.  1/8" or 1/4" mahogany is all you need for the risers and stringers.  1/2" mahogany for the stair treads should be fine and 1/2" mahogany for the stair nosing.

   Then router the stringers for the treads and risers, then assemble.  This will be a lot easier than trying to glue to the existing stairs and it will look better.

   The easiest way to do this is to contact a stair builder in your area and have them do it for you.  They have specialized equipment and tools to do it fast and easy which should make the stairs reasonably priced.