Replies

1. 
   cadiddlehopper | Mar 20, 2006 04:43am | #1

   I have done what you plan. My collector is 3-hp. Don't have spec on CFM. I had two cans on two branches of pipe. I could have had three cans & branches as it has three 4-inch stubs & it really sucks! So, how did it work? Most dust went to the lower bag anyway. Planer shavings tended to stay in the garbage can. Also, the dust in the can is stirred quite a lot by the turbulence. A deeper can or some sort of baffling might reduce that turbulence which is probably why the sawdust goes all the way to the bags. I reconfigured my system so that my saw, planer & jointer are on the same branch as the garbage can "cyclonette." I removed the can from the other branch which collects only sawdust. Anyone need a surplus garbage can & "cyclonette?"

   Cadiddlehopper

1. 
   Jimmbo | Mar 20, 2006 05:20am | #2

   Ok, then I take it you did not find a problematic drop in performance.  Did you ever try it without the cyclonette, for comparison purposes?  You say that dust passes right through to the bag ... but what about metal screws?  Those are my main concern, with the fire hazzard.

1. 
   cadiddlehopper | Mar 20, 2006 06:50pm | #5

   I can't tell that using the can & cyclonette dropped performance significantly. I don't remember trying it without the cyclonette. As I said, my system has two branches now, only one branch has a cyclonette. I got the cyclonette from Grizzly. I tried to gasket the can & cyclonette, but the gasket wouldn't stay on. I have a 5-lb weight on the lid now. I have noticed that the metal garbage can almost collapses especially if I forget to open a blast gate when I start it - without any gasket! I have one of those remote controls for to turn it on - a great device. A metal screw should not be able to pass through the cyclonette. If it got caught in a mass of planer shavings it might make it out of the can. I doubt that your vacuum will pick up a screw unless your nozzle has a very small opening. I haven't tested for that as I have a very old Craftsman shop vacuum which is used for floor sweeping. If you want to vacuum with your dust collector, why not put the cyclonette on one branch & have another without a cyclonette to which you may attach a floor vacuuming line? Surely, a 2-hp collector can handle two 4-inch pipe runs. It probably comes with an adapter with two stubs.BTW, I used PVC drain pipe & Delta flexible hose & gates. (For about $100 at Lowe's there is a Delta kit which I used. It has hose, adapters, & blast gates.) A ground wire runs through the piping on the inside. The ground wire can catch planer chips if they get too thick. I drilled holes & installed #8 machine screws through the PVC to provide a way to attach a ground wire to collector & machines. I saw a suggestion in FWW that the ground wire could be wrapped around the outside of PVC pipe for grounding. I am not sure that I would feel very safe from static electricity with that arrangement. The most difficult part of the installation was the ground wire. I sucked it through with the collector by attaching a rag to the wire. The cyclonette came in handy for that. Otherwise, the wire would have reached the turbine.With all my suction my pipes are overhead with no problem. I had no choice anyway. In the latest FWW someone suggested running pipe along a wall just above tool collection ports instead of overhead. That can save your collector from having to lift shavings another four feet or so thus costing you vacuum pressure at the nozzle.Good collecting!Cadiddlehopper

2. 
   user-126535 | Mar 20, 2006 06:55am | #3

   Hi Jimbo; First let me say if you're looking for the garbage can lid setup you can contact Grizzly industries. They have one of the better setups that I've seen and used.  As for preformance loss etc.... IF you have the lid sitting on top of your first stage loosly you will have some loss due to the fact that you will have air passing around the lid and top of first stage (garbage can) itself.  If you take the time and seal the lid with weather stripping or foam gasketing you will not have the preformance loss. Try and make this as air tight as possible and still be able to 'pop the top' when having to empty etc.  As for saving time emptying bag as often with this set up vs a straight shot to the filter bag... I've done both and have found that if my first stage (the can) was somewhat shallow, the biggest % of all shavings sawdust etc. will go to the bag.  When using a larger/deeper can (seperating the distance between the 4" hoses and bottom of can) that there was more 'heavier' dust/shavings in the can vs the other way. I hope this helps and if you have any further  questions (how many machines, dust gates etc. ask away.

   Steve

    

1. 
   Jimmbo | Mar 20, 2006 05:09pm | #4

   Great to hear that if properly sealed you fell there is no performance drop.  Does the first stage actually do a good job of saving the impeller from screws that will inevitably get sucked up, especially when my 6 year old daughter vacuums?

1. 
   user-126535 | Mar 20, 2006 10:54pm | #6

   B efore purchasing and setup of my dust collection system I did the same as you're doing and investigated everything thourghly.  One thing that I found was a lot of 'Hype' on grounding your system.   A Fire Chief/Captain sent in a letter to FWW several years ago stating that the air and dust ratio has to be at a optimum state to ignite.  That this is not easy to achieve and the likelyhood of a fire/explosion in this type of enviroment is unlikely to happen.  Take this for what it's worth... I'm just passing on what I found. By checking into this subject more and more I found that the likelyhood of a dust explosion is very rare.  Again take it for what it's worth.  It's better to be safe than sorry....Talk with your local fire chief and see what he/she has to say.  The other thing is the fact that some impellers are made out of aluminum and not steel thus negating the spark likelyhood.  As to wireing/grounding your system to be safe.... You can run the ground wire on the OUTSIDE and every 10' to 15' feet run the wire into the ducting 3" to 5" inches and right back out and continue down the line.  In the spots where you run the wire internally, make sure that your wire is laid next to the wall of the pipe and not looped or dangled into the line and then back out.  This will save you a lot of Tylenol in the future.  There's nothing worse than trying to locate a blockage and having to take apart ducting from one end to the other and finding out it was due to the grounding wire.  One tip I might add is clear ducting instead of PVC pipe.  It's a little more expensive but you can see blockage spots if your collector looses preformance.  One more thing about grounding... There is a lot of stuff on web sites regarding the how tooos.  Grizzly, Pen State, American Woodworker back issues and of course back issues of FWW. 

   OK, last but not least; As for the screws and the first stage.  Grizzly has a plastic garbage can lid that has 2 ~ 4"inch openings on top of the lid.  The openings are not in line or a straight through set up.  They're angled/tilted so the inlet side comes in at 10:00 o clock and exits at the 2:00 position.  By having it set up in this fashion it causes a swirling/vortex affect and thus seperating the heavier shavings from sawdust...if you get my drift.  You can install a magnite inside the first stage under the lid by the incoming side to catch any metal that might pass through the first stage.  This way hopefully any metal won't continue on to the impeller. I hope I helped you and if you have any further questions please feel free to ask away.....

   Steve

    

    

    

    

    

    

    

    

    

    

    

    

    

1. 
   cadiddlehopper | Mar 21, 2006 09:16pm | #7

   About sawdust explosions: Many years ago there was a plywood shortage because one of the few major plywood plants in the US was almost completely destroyed by a sawdust explosion. It can happen. I remember the shortage. Prices have never come down since that time.Keeping a wire against a wall of a pipe is quite a challenge. Actually, I didn't even think about trying to do that. I wish that I had. Here is how I would do it: After getting all pipes sized & cut, drill two small holes on the same side & near the end of each straight run yet clear of fitting verlap. Disassemble plumbing as required. Thread the ends of grounding wire through the holes. Pull it tight inside tube and wedge it in the drilled holes to keep it taut. Leave 6 - 12 inches of wire outside pipe. Reassemble plumbing. Connect ground wire sections together by your chosen means (wire nuts, splices, etc.) without letting the wire inside pipe go slack. If the wire holes bother you, plug them with RTV. Figure out how to connect ground wire to each machine. This procedure would have been much easier than what I actually did.Another grounding method is metal plumbing. Regular HVAC metal pipe may work, but I don't know for sure. I do know that it is extremely inexpensive compared to what woodwork supply houses offer as metal dust ducting. I plan to test HVAC pipe soon.BTW, Highland Hardware (Atlanta) has a cyclone kit for about $80 which, I believe, includes a barrel. The outlet is vertical & dead center of the swirling dust. It may have less tendency to pass dust on to the bag. Thet make large claims for it. I presume a paper barrel can survive the vacuum pressure.As said before, my cyclonette is the one Grizzly sells.Cadiddlehopper

3. 
   Steamdonkey | Mar 25, 2006 12:52am | #8

   I had been thinking about adding one of the cyclone lids for a long while and recently bought one from Lee Valley. I placed it on an 80 gallon drum I was using for trash, just loose thinking there would be loss of suction. I only have it hooked up between my planer and DC. I worried about performance loss, but I noticed no performance hit at all, in fact I think it is actually better because the large planer chips are not clogging the DC at the gate or the impeller. Before I would have to unclog the hose at the DC when ever I planed wide boards, now it works perfectly.

   It is funny to take off the lid and see the chips all lying down in neat cyclonic rows like a fresh alien crop circle.

1. 
   TimNott | Mar 30, 2006 05:33pm | #12

   That looks excellent. The job I really hate is changing the bag. Hope I never have to have a colostomy.

4. 
   bleubassplyr | Mar 26, 2006 04:11am | #9

   Check out this link to learn everything you ever wanted about cyclone dust collection.

   http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

   There are more old drunkards than old doctors.  Ben Franklin

5. 
   frenchy | Mar 26, 2006 08:52pm | #10

   Jimmbo,

      I added a second stage to my dust collection system (grizzly) and found that I couldn't mesure any drop in performance. however since I was planing  20 inch wide boards (or two ten inch) my 2 hp wasn't enough and would plug up too easily.  I tried it both ways, with the second stage and without.

           that plus every 10 minutes or so I would have to empty the can in order to deal with the massive amount of chips I was prducing meant that  I'd plane a board and unplug the system. then I 'd plane another board and empty the can..

     Well maybe I could get a few boards between unplugging and empting the can  but in the end I put on a diust mask and let the chips fly.. then about twice  a day I used a snow shovel to scoop the wood chips into big piles..

     

1. 
   tufenhundel | Mar 29, 2006 05:11am | #11

   "I put on a diust mask and let the chips fly"This is the most sensible thing I've seen re: dust collection. I think most people don't realize the danger of the stuff they can't see. The DC system with improper capacity gives such a false sense of security.

6. 
   Telemike | Mar 31, 2006 08:18am | #13

   You want a chunk interceptor between the dust collection piping and the dust collector to, if nothing else, keep bits of wood out of the impellor. I've posted my tale of a plywood bit about 1 1/2 by 1/2 stuck between the impellor and its housing three times now. Search the archives because I'm not feeling too well and not willing to type this tale yet again.