Additional Table Saw Advice Wanted!
Here is my situation:
I’m in the market for a table saw with the following parameters. The 2 most important being 110V 15 amp service (sorry no 220) and it will be located in the garage and will need to be stored when not in use. I originally thought about the Rigid table saw but at the time they were have the arbor problems so I waited. Next, I was convinced it would be the Sears 24 (the pro model). I wanted for a sale and then talked myself out of that. I was afraid it just too big and heavy to be pushing it around the garage. Next, I started wondering about the portable Bosch table saw along with the Eureka or Festool saw guide for working with sheet goods. Good portability with both tools for about the same money as the Sears 24. But I want a good table saw and was afraid I might be disappointed in the Bosch. I then considered the Sears 14 but the fence (at least on the display) was poor (deflection and not square). The General International 185 is about the same price but the fence looks much better and still have some money for a saw guide for sheet goods?
What have I got wrong or simply overlooked? what should be the most important factor. Thankfully, money (to a degree) is not the biggest issue. I want quality and something a novice to woodworking can appreciate. Thanks and I look forward to you comments and questions.
F1
Replies
The Biggest mistake " as money is not an issue" is not installing 240v.IMHO do that first ,preferably with enough capacity for extra circuits before buying power tools.Otherwise you are going to restrict yourself to underpowered tooling
Unless you are in a rental situation or some other circumstance I do agree that installing 220V is the way to go.
I have the Craftsman 22124 on the universal mobile base and it is very easy to move around. My 100 lb. wife moves it. The General 185 is a solid contender and I would have given it a strong look if there were a local distributor.
Other than the mail-order issue, the 22124 was an easy choice due to the smaller footprint (no motor hanging out the back) and better dust collection. Would have liked to give the GI hybrid a look but I really wanted to buy locally. Unfortunately there is not a lot of choice where I live.
Within your stated paramaters I'd go with the Ridgid or the better carftsman saw. The weight is a non issue.
Mike
Both the GI 50-185 and the Sears 22124 are excellent saws. That said, I switched from the GI to the 22124 last April and am very happy with the switch. On the Sears mobility kit the 22124 moves better than the GI did on another mobile base, plus the footprint is smaller. Both have great fences, but the 22124 has better DC, is much more stable due to the additional 125#, the trunnions are easier to align, and there's no motor sticking out the back.
If you want other considerations besides the 22124 that will run on 110v and has a Biese fence, look at the GI hybrid 50-220CM1, or the Delta 36-716. The GI looked pretty impressive to me. Even though it doesn't have cabinet mounted trunnions, I'm told it has table top blade alignment, and the trunnion carriage is a solid cast piece. It's also made in Taiwan vs China if that makes a difference to you.
These are all nice enough saws that I think the most important thing is to pick the one you like best that suits your needs.
http://www.epinions.com/content_184778395268
Edited 10/16/2005 7:06 am ET by scotty
I think the next best saw to a cabinet saw are the contractor models. Jet, Delta, Powermatic and General would be my picks. Some allow the motor to be wired either 110 or 220. Many are available with your choice of fence, the fence can be upgraded in the future to most any cabinet saw fence. There are plenty of accessories that will fit, dadoes and molding heads can be used, cast iron extension tables can be added and the saws have some weight. Some of the light weight, motorized saws are fine for carrying from job to job and doing basic cuts but I think the contractor models are capable of more intricate and heavier work. These saws will handle just about anything you will need and can grow with you as your skills increase.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Don't let 110 vs 220 be a show stopper unless your run from the panel exceeds 50 ft. And consider that a 110 GFCI is $10 and a 220 GFCI runs over $100.
Joe
There was a recent discussion about GFCI needs in the shop and the concensus by electric-wise guys seemed to be that it's not necessary on a tablesaw. Am I remembering wrong??
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Edited 10/16/2005 1:01 pm by forestgirl
Well Forestgirl, I'm a EE and over the years the IEEE trade journals has reported among other things; electrocution by shop tools, by telephone (ringer current), by kite flying and more. I never worked in power (I was always in computers), so I may be more cautious than those who do work in power. But if I'm near a moving blade, I don't want even a 'tingle' from a high resistance short! Granted, a GFCI probably won't trip for that, Just call me chicken!!! but my shop floor is a concrete slab sitting on ground.
Joe
Blade -I had my shop wired by a licensed contractor, permits, inspection and all the bells and whistles with regard to code issues. No GFIC protection on any of the 220 stuff. GFIC protection on anything that was remotely close to moisture, all outdoor outlets and so forth.Electrocution from telephone ringer current? Must have been pretty heavy duty broadband connection! I've been holding a telephone line trying to patch it back together on a jobsite, standing in a muddy ditch when the phone rang. Yes, you know when you've been bit with 24v. No, I didn't need to comb my hair. Or change my underwear.To the original question regarding the table saw: I concur with the addition of a 220v circuit if there's capacity/space in the panel. You'll never regret it.
Faulted1,
As long as your still looking, try the Grizzly 1023 in the 110 model. A cabinet model may be heavier but actually has a smaller footprint than a contractor saw..plus it stores the chips for you (kinda). Beyond that however, the heavy cast iron and trunnions attached to the cabinet means smoother cuts and less adjustments required..so they say.
As far as I know, the 110v 1023 version still draws 24 amps @ 110v which will require a special 30 amp circuit, or 220v....since it's the same price as the 3hp, I kind of wonder what the attraction is. Very few of us have a 30 amp circuit installed.
scotty,
I initially looked hard at the 110 model because I didn't have 220 and did not want to spend the money to install the line. I never reached the point of contacting a Grizzly supplied reference, did install the line and had an electrician make the final connections. However, I don't recall the amps requirements for the 2hp . For some reason I can't get to the spec sheet at Grizzly today...some problem with adobe..I do agree with you and others about the need for a 220 line...he'll be butting up against that issue with other equipment too.
Edited 10/16/2005 5:53 pm ET by BG
BG, the spec shee for the 110V 1023S states recommended breaker size is 30 amps. Lists 24 amps for the motor.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I just gotta ask the question that I haven't seen asked yet.
Is your power panel in the garage where your going to use the saw & is there space for more breakers in the box & does the property belong to you?
If the answer to these questions is yes you don't have a problem that a little knowledge won't take care of. In lieu of that its nothing a little money won't take care of.
If you can put in 220 V a cabinet or hybrid table-saw will take up less room & still be mobile. If you do put in 220 V make sure to put in 3 or 4 plugs. You won't regret it.
Before you put in 3 or 4 plugs, check your local codes. My inspector wouldn't pass my installation with several sockets for one circuit. So I put in 4 dedicated 220 sockets, all 30A.
Besides, if you put in 3 or 4 plugs on one 30A circuit, and drive a 5HP table saw plus a 220v DC plus a 220v air cleaner, you're pretty likely to undervolt (damaging your TS motor) or overdraw (breaker trip).
If your panel is a modern one and you have space, it's just not very costly to add extra breakers -- my 30A breakers were $17 ea. at the borg.
My city's inspector said I didn't need GFCI on the TS, even though I'm in a garage. As he pointed out, the clothes dryer handles water all day long and isn't on a GFCI. However, a good properly connected ground is definitely needed!
I guess I should have made it clear that each plug should be on its own circuit.Good, better, best never let it rest until your good is better & your better best.
Sorry I misunderstood you. I'm a novice at this, and I first assumed when I put in my 220v I could do like with 110v -- a single circuit supplying multiple outlets. I've learned a LOT recently!
I imagine that according to code now days they may not like more than 1 220v plug on a circuit. That is assuming the worst as in your going to be running a tool on each plug all at the same time. In reality that isn't going to happen. My Dad had a double plug box with 2 220 V plug in it on the same circuit 1 for his table-saw & 1 for his jointer for years with no problem.( He was a licensed electrician & the code may have been different back then.) I have 4 220v plugs in line in my shop 1 for each of the following tools Table-saw, Jointer, Band-saw & Air Compressor. I have had both the Table-saw & Jointer running at the same time, Of course I don't turn them both on at the same time. My DC is on a different circuit & the Air Compressor is turned off until assembly time anyway.
Do it the way the inspector wants it done & you should have no problems. Remember plug-ins & lights are like clamps you can't have to many.Good, better, best never let it rest until your good is better & your better best.
Thanks, I agree with you 100%. Totally practical to share, but defer to the inspector and bite the bullet when you must. :)
First, thanks to everyone regarding the comments and advice. Although, I haven't made a final decision, all of you have helped with the process.
Regarding the possibility of 220: It's a older house that has been remodeled several times and the electrical system is barely adequate as it is now without adding additional 220 outlets. I have some land and hope to build in the near future maybe a "true" shop building then, but 110 V is the max for now. Thanks again.
F1
Is it possible to put in slim line style breaker a double 20 amp breaker would fit in where 1/2 of a regular double 20 amp breaker fits now. This may give you enough room to fit 1 or 2 more breakers into the box just by changing out some of the wider full sized breakers.Good, better, best never let it rest until your good is better & your better best.
If your wiring is "barely adequate," that is all the more reason to install a new circuit for your tablesaw, rather than adding more demand on the existing 15A circuit.
Let me clarify:
"If your wiring is "barely adequate," that is all the more reason to install a new circuit for your tablesaw, rather than adding more demand on the existing 15A circuit."
I meant the overall service (total amps) and the panel (with some slim breakers already). There is no adding more circuits but instead a new everything (drop and service panel).
F1
I have a Rigid table saw .. Probably with the arbor problem.. I never use a daddo set so...
Sure there are better saws.. I like it... And I can make some pretty nice stuff with it.. Not Lonnie Bird class but OK!
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