I’m looking to get my name out there a little more but not sure where the money would do the most good. I’ve done pretty well by word of mouth but I want to expand my contact area. My choices are
Yellow Pages
Web Site
Local, but high end magazine (Milwaukee Magazine)
Community Type News Paper.
The Yellow Page add and the community paper are the least expensive but there are a number of others like me that already advertise in them so I’m worried about just being one of the crowd. Or my other worry is getting numerous calls from window shopper types. I apperciate any feedback or advice.
Thanks
Dale
Replies
as a part time woodworker but full time mortgage broker i found the best advertising is a self written letter to everyone you know is the starting point. Let everyone you know know that you would like to build them something (for a small fee of course).The more people that know what you do the better. IF you have a database and you can use a word processing hardware the USPS (united states postal service) can actually print the letter, address all of the envelopes, and send them for you.
Kenney66
Timberwerks ,
IMO the yellow pages in as many books that are distributed in your area , some areas have more then one book by different companies . Perhaps spread out to the nearest other community that is within working distance if possible . As you said word of mouth and referrals are a great source . The newspaper type of advertising unless done on a regular basis , may be a losing deal for you . Even when your name is given to a potential client ( word of mouth ) often times they will open the yellow pages and look for your name and number and any other info in your ad . The yellow page ad is like your anchor , it can also help lend credibility as to your being a legitimate professional business. It is pretty easy to field new calls and qualify the callers by asking a few questions to determine if you can help them . You may be better off getting 10 calls in a week and landing a few real jobs as opposed to getting no calls that week .
hope this helps good luck dusty
I have not priced yellow page ads, but just having your name in there may get it overlooked. Check pricing for various size ads that can carry enough info and still draw the eye to attract interest.
Think about how YOU find a business in there to call. Depending on what I need, I will either look at locations near where I live or look at the ads for info on what is offered and then look at the ads for the nearest business.
Depending on what your product is, you may try letters with brochures to businesses that would use it. If the product is more decorative - local shows or gallerys may be better.
There is also a book "Woodworker's Guide to Pricing Your Work" that has info on all aspects of starting up a woodworking business, not just pricing you might want to check out.1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
Tell me a little more about what you are currently doing and have done, and then what you would like to be doing. In marketing terms, what or who is your target audience? I may be able to help you, Dale. Is your business name also Timberwerks, or do you use your name?
I agree with Dusty, the yellow pages is my default advertising. Even if you throw a couple of adds in the papers, people may notice them but not be ready for you yet. When the time comes, out comes the yellow pages and they may remember your name.
Bear
I'm not sure.. Yellow Pages.. Does anybody use them anymore?
Does anyone use them? Yes, indeed, in my case. It's a very quick way to get oriented--who offers the service or product I want, and how near are they are to me? Googling and other electronic searches, for all their marvels, don't do that very efficiently.
To executives are chatting after a round of golf. One says to the other, "I know that about half of my advertising dollars are effective. I just don't know which half."Advertising is tough (and expensive). Start with the direct mail route to friends and, more importantly, satisifed customers.Good Luck,
Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
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Mark got it! I was in Marketing.. WE HAD A GOOD PRODUCT... Nobody bought it.. I got fired! Sort of the way it is!
I donate 3 -4 small works per year to chariety fundraisers. I have always got more work than I can get to.
I took my listing out of the yellow pages. All of the calls from there were a waste of time, either someone looking for the cheapest bid, or with no idea about what I do. The phone would ring a lot, just not for what I was wanting to do.
Word of mouth, it's free- Logo on your truck, maybe on your shirt- Lots of business cards- Face to face contact- Friends who have friends- And limit your vulnerabilities- Every time I hear of someone going out of business, I know someone accepted overhead his business wouldn't feed- A small business has to be lean-
Timberwerks
OK. I'll chime in here, as marketing is something I think I know a little about.
I started my company 20 years ago (concrete raising business) on a shoestring budget ($300 a month for advertising). I now have the largest display add in every yellow pages in every city in Chicagoland. Major bucks, but it's all relative. We do over a million every year, and will be knocking on the doorstep of 2 million this year.
It takes time, but don't stretch yourself TOOOOOOOOOOOOOO thin.
That's my .02.
Jeff
Oh, I almost forgot. Be careful what you wish for. I'd trade all the bullcrap in a heartbeat for 3 months of peace and quiet in my woodshop!
Thanks for your replies everyone. The direction I think I'll go in is a web site and listing myself in three areas of the Yellow Book (furniture makers,wood carvers and fireplace accesories) I do a lot of carved mantels. The Yellow Book add will point people to the web site. When I have a few more dollars in the budget I'll run an add in a local high end magazine http://www.milwaukeemagazine.com/ I'll use the local paper to advertise for firewood. I sell firewood to help bring in extra money. All the firewood I get is free and some even worth milling or carving.
Dale
Forget the Yellow Pages and the community newspaper. You need to run an ad in the city magazine which includes your website address. Your web page, should you choose to have one, must be flawless. Mickey Mousing the web page does far more harm than good.
How could you recommend to "forget the yellow pages?" Before I replied to your post, I looked up last year and the year before. We source every single job.
2003 sales Yellow Pages only $893,412.00
2004 sales Yellow Pages only $746,518.00
Adds cost my company $5500.00 per month, rounded off. Yeah, I can see why you'd want to skip that crappy source of advertising.
By the way, my post only indicated to use the yp if you were going to have a standout display add.
Hey JHeath ,
I agree with what you say in regards to yp , your own company $ figures are impressive to say the least . Some say you have to spend money to make money your stats prove that . Any growing expanding business is certainly going to get the best exposure from display ads , but for older long time established companies even a listing so referred folks can find your name and number with ease is an asset and IMO a good business decision .
regards dusty
dusty
Thanks for the kind comments. Keep in mind, my company is now 20 years old. I did not start out spending 5k a month in advertising. But, I sourced every call that came in, so I knew where the money was working, and more importantly, where it doesn't. We now have 3 offices, and we get over 5000 calls a year, and it all started from a little $194 dollar add way back when.
The referral issue you brought up is so key. Customers from 10 years ago still happy with our service can remember our company name, but not our phone #. They tell their new neighbor about us, and he/she checks the yp for our #. Happens every day.
Regards,
Jeff
Yellow Pages = waste of money for high-end custom furniture makers. Not sure what you make.
But if you're selling $900K annually in fine handcrafted furniture then I tip my hat to you.
Thinking back to when you first started your own business, what were the two or three most important things that contributed to new commissions/sales (including any press you may have received)?
Building stuff for people for nothing or sometimes at cost. I built a set of entry doors for a local interior design firm and they have referred tons of business over the years. Best move I ever made. I had an appointment with one of the principals to review my portfolio. She casually mentioned they were about to start a major re-work of the office and one of her responsibilities was the front doors. I ran with that like crazy.
Money spent is money spent.
Some people gasp as the thought of building something and then giving it away. What's the difference between writing a check to run an advertisement and writing one to a lumber dealer for some stock? Yep, I had to invest some time but I was sharpening my skills at the same time. Big Win-Win as far as I'm concerned. And talk about hitting your target market. Architects and the ID crowd have daily access to clients who have the wherewithal and the motivation to commission custom furniture. I think advertising a custom furnituremaking concern is much less about reaching numbers (Yellow Pages) than it is about making personal contact. In fact, I could envision a scenario where my stock would fall if I tried to get too mass market and pedestrian with the media I chose. You have to be careful - don't cheapen the brand.
Please bear in mind that I build standalone furniture only (occassionally doors). I do not build anything that has to be installed other than the doors and that is absolutely subcontracted at this point. I don't do bulk cabinet jobs. I tell you too that the high-end custom cabinet guys around here are about as selective as I am as to their advertising.
Call a design firm, make an appointment (these folks love to have meetings) and simply offer to build something for them at no cost. I'd be shocked if several commissions don't land right in your lap down the road. Give them the full treatment. Don't do ANYTHING on the cheap. Make something utterly stunning. Wear a suit to the meeting. I break out the only Zegna I have left hanging in the closet.
I also think that ads in really top-flight city magazines help. They're not cheap, though. Your target market usually advertises in this mag. as well - ID firms, architects, and high-end homebuilders.
Very interesting and suggestive of a winning approach for the WW who's new to a market or just opening up a shop. I totally agree with your viewpoint on not "cheapening the brand", a mistake too many people make only to discover they can't rise above it down the road. A guy I know, who exclusively makes high-end entry doors in the four-figure range, used to be in the corporate world. When he first opened up his business he made a first- class display of doors for a major home furnishing retailer, offering them referral fees, and now he's backed up for almost a year -- not all from that display, obviously, but that's how he got things going. Yours was even more efficient, I'd say.
Just no sense in a shotgun approach for something as specialzed as custom furniture. I believe that I have an understanding of who buys this stuff and the people who plant the seed of the idea to have something custom made. I go straight for these groups without any dilly-dallying.
If somebody has hired an interior designer - real designer with certifications and a college degree - then they are a very serious candidate to commission custom work. The designers need to know who you are. They must know who you are and what your capabilities are. It's an absolute as far as I'm concerned. Not being able to 'interface' (I don't like the term but it's descriptive) with this crowd would be a killer for me. THE single most valuable referral source that I have without question. God love 'em they do my selling for me. The qualify business right up front by telling folks that I am not cheap. I'm definitely not. If somebody is on a budget, *relatively speaking* then they cull them right off the bat which is great. No telling how much time this has saved me over the years in meetings that would most likely have been completely unproductive.
Let me also say that desingers/decorators who have antique shops as an adjunct to their design businesses are usually poor referal sources as they obviously want to sell their own merchandise to clients. When this crowd does get active with the custom trade they usually want to purchase it themselves, from the maker, and mark it up to their client. As such, they tend to need the maker to sell at a price below where it would normally sell. Obviously, I like to work with the ID crowd who earn an hourly rate, exclusively, and are not antique shop owners.
Edited 6/9/2005 2:03 pm ET by cstan
I couldn't agree with you more. The marketing plan you described in your previous posts is exactly the same way I am getting the word out on my business. Although my wife designed my website, after she taught herself HTML, which is pretty basic. I mainly use the site as an online portfolio and for contact information.I am currently doing mostly antique repair for one of the best, at least I think, dealers in Charlottesville. He has since passed my name to several other serious collectors of whom I have done repairs for. There is also another client interested in commissioning several pieces.I have business cards and I try to schedule at least 2 meetings a week with Architects or Designers. I also talk to Contractors specializing in historic properties since I also do architectural work.I think that the direct approach is the best form of advertising for a beginning woodworker. It instantly puts a face to a name and allows you the ability to describe what you do and if the person you are speaking with has no need for your services, they may know someone who does.I have considered a glossy ad in the local magazine but the rates were too high for me. I think for an ad to be effective it needs to be seen at least three times consecutively. The bonus of the magazine ad was that the magazine editors would do the ad layout for free if you purchased a years worth of ad space for a 1/16 page ad.One other thing to add. I work from home but have a separate phone for the shop. I think it is important to keep them separate plus I get a business listing in the white pages.J.P.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
JP,
That bombe chest is spectacular. was it featured on the back of fww at one time?
kh
kh,Thanks for the compliment. The bombe you are thinking of was made by Randall O'Donnell. I sent some photos to FWW but have not heard from them regarding publication.J.P.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
Right on again, and my own experience backs that up. I ran a 20-person professional business a few years ago and we moved into a brand new upscale office building. I engaged a well-known designer to guide the build-out and furnish the offices. She suggested several custom pieces ranging from a conference table to a wall-mounted media console and several other lesser items. I just told her to work it out and let me see the concepts before going ahead. She picked people who had the skills and resources to carry out the designs, something that I didn't have time or sources to do. It was great. Each project went to one or more guys whose work she knew and I couldn't have been happier. Poorer, but happier.Another time I had the asignment to make a very expensive executive gift for a client using exotic woods and I gave the project to a WW who had shown me his work on an earlier occcasion. (Now I do my own stuff, but I don't need to support a family any more.) Most people I know in creative fields keep a resource file of providers of all kinds; best to get your business cards in those files with an occasional portfolio update.
I believe that the chances of a person needing an historic reproduction or a custom piece of standalone furniture looking in the Yellow Pages for a provider are extremely remote. Not saying it couldn't happen, but it's not where I would put my money. Somebody with a flush marketing budget might want to cover all their bases, but I believe it would be a waste of money.
Other kinds of woodworking may be more susceptible to YP advertisting but I couldn't comment on that from my own experience.
Yup.
Some people gasp as the thought of building something and then giving it away.
I do it all the time.... However, I do try to get the cost of the wood out of it (if I can)..
NO I an NOT rich.. Far from it... Just keeps me busy.. Couldn't't do it if I needed for a family or stuff like that...
Like you I get all kinds of offers from folks that have seen some of my work.. I have to decline.. When I retired I told myself NO MORE WORK!..
Just wood and fun!
Good luck in your business... Just don't give to MUCH away!
Will, I look at like advertising dollars. Very well targeted advertising. It floors people. They act like they owe you a favor that can never be repaid.
I see your point. I have decided not to go with the Yellow Book. I'll stick with getting a good web site designed and advertise in the local high end magazines. I also build high end studio furniture along with custom carved fireplace mantels and soon doors. I have to make a great impression to the right people. Charley Radtke is less than 10 minutes from me and he has an outstanding reputation. http://www.charlesradtke.com/
I would like to find the clients that appreciate craftsmanship and earn a reputation like that for myself. Time will tell.
Dale
I'm very familiar with Charles's work.
Good luck with your business.
cstan is right on the money, except I would add a component of PR. Having counseled 100s of people and firms, it takes a mix of things to work and it changes as the business matures. One reason I asked the questions above is because you have not done due dilligence to your self until you face some basic factors about yourself and your work. But, whatever choices you make about marketing (this word includes all that you do to promote your business, by the way, not just advertising), it is never completely quantifiable and there is always a lot of "wasted" money and effort in anybody's marketing. However, if there is one, most-important consideration it is this: if you are doing a notch or two above the plywood and Melamine kind, your most important source of new business will be that which comes from word of mouth, or referrals. Think about this one thing and apply it to all that you do, from business cards to the face you show your commuity. And good luck!
Thanks Again Everyone,
I'm taking notes on everthing discussed here and I'm looking into getting a web site designed. I may opt out of the yellow pages for this year and put the money into a good site. If I do have a few dollars left over after that I will try a couple adds in the high end magazine to introduce myself and the site.
Dale
TW,
In today's world, a website can be a valuable tool in many ways. It can be even more valuable if you set it up and maintain it yourself. It can be incredibly inexpensive to create a web presence. I use my website primarily as an online portfolio -- as I have a wider variety of items to display, I'll begin driving more people to it.
Before you look anywhere else, try the provider I use. For an investment of about $120, I got my own domain name, unique IP adress and two years hosting service. I also signed up as an 'affiliate' and have earned back my original investment in the service. Check my host and sign up using this link.
Regards,
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting
Mensa Member
Click Here if you're interested in a good, inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Thanks Bill
I'll check them out. That's a nice looking site you have.
Dale
Timberwerks,
Think outside the box! Buying advertizing is not your most effective return on your time and capital.. Why not do some creative marketing? Buy a old Model A Ford woodie and fix it up.. put your name and number on it and drive it around. Bound to get a lot more attention than some 30 dollar ad in the back of a newspaper.
If you have a good customer in a neighborhood where you think you can do some good, offer to build their children a tree house in the front yard! The people who respond to that will be far more profitable than those who just check the yellow pages for the lowest cost contractor.
Put some of your work in the parade of homes, find a friendly reporter on a slow news day and show him some unique work..
Do a little gorilla advertizing.. park that Model A woodie in front of a competitor's open house..
Is Timberwerks the name of your company? I just looked in the white pages and didn't see it. What do you drive to/from jobs? Get the name on the vehicle and in the white pages. That way, if the name sticks in their mind, they'll be able to look it up by name, not by category. If the client will let you put up a sign at the job site, that'll help, too. A lot of contractors do this and unless there are already a lot of signs out there, they may let you, too.
What do you do? Timber framing, general carpentry, custom trim/finish carpentry, cabinetry? If you mainly do high-end custom work, I would recommend having a portfolio of high-resolution photos and/or granted access to past clients homes. Then if you want to get in with some of the high-end designers and contractors, they'll have a clear idea of what you have done. Milwaukee Magazine can't hurt, especially considering the building going on in this area. Are you a member of the MBA or NARI? That can get you a lot of exposure and discounts on some things you might buy.
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