I’m planning to by a cyclone for dust collection. I’m sold on the prospect of using a cyclone instead of a bag and I’m curious to know from the objective users here if the ClearVue cyclone is really better than, say, Oneida and why. Obviously, you can’t see the inside of the Oneida, so I wonder if it has the same downward helix that the ClearVue has? If so, what and how much difference does this make? Not that this really matters, but won’t the clear plastic in the clearvue ultimately get enough wear that it’s no longer transparent? In any event, I’m ready to make a purchase, but $1,000 is a lot of money to me and I want to make sure I don’t have regrets after the purchase.
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Replies
I'm interested to hear people's responses to your questions as I have been considering a similar purchase.
If you haven't checked it out already, Grizzly's web site has a pretty detailed comparison of their new cyclones to the oneida ones. (I've never seen either unit in person).
E.
Wow! I hadn't looked closely at the Grizzly. Their 1-1/2 HP model might be adequate for my shop (and wallet) and they seem to have a good story to tell. Can anyone help us out?
I haven't seen Grizzly's web site comparison with the Oneida, but I have seen Oneida's website comparison with the Grizzly. Should be interesting to see what each one touts as an advantage.Frosty
I will summarize for you. Each says that they're better than the other and each says the other guy's test is bogus.
Don't know Grizzly or ClearVu but our 2HP Oneida commercial does a great job. We have the 60" filter and you can tell the difference in air quality as it runs in our shop. Jesse at Oneida gave us great customer support and no static problems with metal ducting here in static city.
DP
I plan to buy a Clearvue cyclone and install a Festool rail system on it with a Sawstop trigger mechanism. Then I will be ready for that steel cage match with the Oneida-EZ Guide system with the the third party slider and riving knife...Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Glaucon my friend,
Those are already marketed under the "Fesstopvue" brand name.
Lee
Look for the grey/clear/green machine housing...Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Glaucon,
Don't mess with the short sliding table on that rig, go right to the 73" model, it's much superior. I got mine with the electronic motor brake cause I don't even want to have to bother with a foot brake.
Oh, yeah - use link belts on the high speed filter bearings, too. They really cut down on vibration when yer suckin' up a lot of dust.
Rich
Just make sure whichever cyclone you buy will work with a left tilt table saw !!!!
REALLY ! What a surprise. Will wonders never cease?FrostyThanks for the update.
You're going to get a bunch of answers on this...
Anyway, I was going through the same comparison. But due to changing circumstances I will not be moving to a Cyclone.
First Clear-Vue is the only cyclone that Bill Pentz recommends. You can take the for whatever value you're willing to put on it. I have e-mailed clearvue and I found them to be very professional, and willing to answer questions.
One thing to keep in mind when looking at costs. The Clearvue has a large motor in it (5HP), but you'd still need to purchase filters, and a collection bin.
My view is that the dust collection system is only as good as your pickups, so whatever you choose, make sure you leave enough money left over for piping and pickups.
Edited 12/19/2006 4:54 pm ET by Buster2000
Very few questions get more religious responses than this one. I recommend you do your own research, not limiting yourself to any one web site for information and taking all information with a grain of salt.
Pete
I think Knots is likely a place where "religious" opinions are based on experience. If someone had an experience with a product that was so positive that they became a walking advertisement for that product, those are exactly the people I want to hear from. It seems like the field is pretty limited here, at least for a relatively small shop. There's Grizzly, Oneida, Penn State and ClearVue. ClearView is building Pentz' design, so it's no surprize he endorses them, but ClearVue is operating at a different level from the larger enterprises like Grizzly, Oneida and others. So there must be something there if he's still running in the pack with the bigger dogs. I just don't know enough about the stuff to know what that difference is. As for doing independent research, I can't think of a better source than the opinions of the dust makers on this forum.
I don’t know about the best I would think that would depend on the shop but mine is very good though I would not describe it as quiet
Quickstep,
I was at friend's shop and he had a Clearview. The 5hp motor sure did move some air and dust. And it was pretty quiet. When it was running you could watch the "cyclone" in action. But I am usually making the dust not watching it, hehehehehe.
One thing I did notice was the static electricity that it produced. If you get one make sure that it is grounded! The hair on my air stood on end as my arm passed by it. I'm not sure of the draw for a clear cyclone, when I was in Springfield, Mo, Grizzly had some nice cyclones set up.
Hope my two cents doesn't sway your thoughts too much.
Joe
Even a broken clock is correct twice a day...
Can't offer any opinion on other dust collectors. I've gotten used to looking at my ClearVue every few minutes to see when the barrel is full. Don't know how I would tell with a non-transparent cyclone.
The pictures of the newer Oneida models SEEM to have a longer taper, as if they have adopted Mr. Pentz' recommendations, but nothing in the literature. You might ask them.
I agree that the ClearVue is not that quiet, but I suspect hearing protection should be worn with any operating dust collector.
Don
Of course ClearVue is the best. That's the one I bought so it MUST be the best.:-)
Seriously - I can't tell you as I'm still in the process of getting mine installed and wont have been able to do a direct comparison to other makes anyway. The install is probably a bit slower than Oneida's as it's more of a DIY kit than a pre-made unit. I went with the CV based on a lot of very positive user feedback but primarily because I needed to shoehorn the unit into a tight space and their newest model had the smallest footprint of similar units. I haven't rechecked the volume level after enclosing the unit in a closet but I can tell you that with no filter stack and no ducting installed the unit puts out 110 dB which is fairly loud. My guess is that it's down around 90-something now with the closet door closed but I need to re-measure. Ed at ClearVue also really sets the bar high for customer service. I've sent emails or left voice messages and received calls from him practicaly 24-7 eager to answer any questions I've had - both before and after the sale.
I'm keeping a ongoing progress album on Clearvue's gallery site if you're interested. I'll be adding a few more pics this weekend but they're mostly just small changes.
http://gallery.clearvuecyclones.com/Dougs-Mini-CV1400
There are also lot of other good install albums there of completed systems.
If you build it he will come.
Dear Quick,
I own an Oneida (3hp) and am very pleased with it. Powerful enough to run three machines at once, it is heavily constructed, (Get a friend or two for install) and in the five + years that I have had it, it has been bulletproof. Oneida designed the system for me and included a parts list, that I chose to order from them. The longest run I have is about sixty linear feet with a couple of "ys" & "90s", with a nine foot lift (to ceiling) and it draws like a hurricane. By far, the most noise that I get is from the air rushing into the blast gates, the unit itself is pretty quiet. I use mine commercially although infrequently. It may sit unused for three months and then be running all day for weeks. No problems, it just does its thing. My shop is heated via woodstove, so there are large temperature swings in the shop with no ill effects. Oneida is great to work with as a company as well.
As to the Clearview, a lot of people seem to like it, it seems like a good system, but I am not wild about a plastic cyclone. Yes, you can watch it, and that is pretty cool, but I still like the heavy gauge steel of the Oneida. I have a floor sweep, and the occasional nail or screw gets sucked in and I don't imagine that it would do the plastic much good. Plus, in my shop, here in CT, it can get cold so I would be a bit concerned about brittleness as well. Anyway, that's my two cents.
Best,
John
Wow, 60 feet is nearly four times what I'll have. I plan to have an overhead run of 6" pipe about 16 feet long and drop 4" flex to pick up my 8" jointer, 15" planer and tablesaw. I'd like to have surplus capacity for other tools later, but I'm begining to think that 5hp may be a bit more than I need. Also, I don't usually operate more than a single tool at a time. I'm mostly interested in making sure that whatever I get isn't returning fine dust into the air. When surfacing wide boards, the plane can produce a mountain of shavings really fast.
Dear Quick,
I think that my long runs are 6" or 7" and that 60' run has a 15" planer, TS, jointer and 12" planer on it. Never any problem. My understanding is that hp isn't the only question, its how the system is set up that makes the difference. Oneida designed it so that the pipe reduces at certain intervals, to make for more efficient airflow. This about the limit of my technical knowledge, fan curves and all that are above my pay grade. Try Oneida, they will design your system properly and then you can still buy the Clearveiw if that is your desire. Last time I checked, they will design it for free, and let you take the design. I wanted a system that worked, no questions asked, and that is what I got. I can't speak to their filters as I opted to vent mine outside, but I can tell you that the cyclone is remarkably efficient. the dust that it collects ranges in size from chunks to powder. I get very little blow by, unless I let the bin overfill. Even after a snowfall, I get no discoloration of the snow under the exhaust.Best,John
Thanks for the information. I was also thinking about exhausting to outside, but read lots of warnings about make up air and having air get sucked down chimneys and such. With a dust collector that moves 1200+ cfm, that is very believable for me. Do you have some arrangement that provides make-up air?
Dear Quick,
I heat with a woodstove, so like yourself, make up air is a concern. I have found that my shop is drafty enough that make up air is not much of an issue. Still, I will crack a window, or door near the machines that I am using so that (hopefully) cold air is drawn into the DC, rather than the heated shop air. It seems to help keep the shop warm, and it eliminates the make up air issue.
Just as an aside, if I had to do it again, I would mount the entire DC unit outside. It really doesn't make much sense to have it inside, as I am keeping the dust and the noise in my shop, plus it would free up a few square feet of space. A simple "closet" outside would suffice.Best,John
Hey,
Fun is fun.
To answer the original poster, I'm equiping my new shop with the Clearview rig. I have no idea if it is better than Oneida or Grizzly. Oneida has a great reputation. I think their gear is high quality. Grizzly and Oneida appear to be duking it out lately. Both have good equipment.
I just like the Clearview. I like the way they present their product. I think $999 is a heck of a deal for the 5 hp machine. Yep, there will be some work on this end to assemble and mount the thing.
I like the way they link to relevent information about dust collection.
Rich
Hey everyone, what about the Penn State Industries' cyclone systmes? I just got their catalog, and the "Tempest Home Shop" 2HP model appears much cheaper than even the ClearVue or Oneida systems. Is this just another case of getting what you pay for?
I expect to buy a dust collector within the next year, now that I have a jointer and planer to add to the mess from the table saw. But I reaaallllly want to purchase only as much machine as I need. I don't want to spend extra for CFM that is not practically appreciable.
That's a good point. It is work to set up the CV- but is it much more effort to do that, or for me to try and fit an Oneida or a Grizzly in a small space (I have 78" overhead clearance)? I'm wondering by the time I assemble an Oneida, customize it to fit my space and do the duct work- will it really be any less work than building a Clearview?Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
I am installing a Clearvue and am interested in how you wired it up.
What size breakers did you use, size wire, what kind of on/off switch?
Did you install a remote?
Did you use metal or plastic ducts? And where did you get them?
I'll appreciate any info you might give me.
Jay Sacramento CA
Jay,I haven't installed it yet. We had a long discussion of wiring/breaker needs a few weeks ago.I was accused of over-engineering. I believe the general advice was 40 amp breakers and 8 ga wiring for the 5 hp motor.Rich
I hope this isn't considered "hijacking" or "off-topic," but anyone have a response tom my query posted earlier in this thread?
"
Hey everyone, what about the Penn State Industries' cyclone systmes? I just got their catalog, and the "Tempest Home Shop" 2HP model appears much cheaper than even the ClearVue or Oneida systems. Is this just another case of getting what you pay for?
I expect to buy a dust collector within the next year, now that I have a jointer and planer to add to the mess from the table saw. But I reaaallllly want to purchase only as much machine as I need. I don't want to spend extra for CFM that is not practically appreciable.
"
"Hey everyone, what about the Penn State Industries' cyclone systmes? I just got their catalog, and the "Tempest Home Shop" 2HP model appears much cheaper than even the ClearVue or Oneida systems. Is this just another case of getting what you pay for?I expect to buy a dust collector within the next year, now that I have a jointer and planer to add to the mess from the table saw. But I reaaallllly want to purchase only as much machine as I need. I don't want to spend extra for CFM that is not practically appreciable."For many dust collectors, the issue certainly isn't spending extra for CFM. More often the case is not actually getting the CFM you think you are. CFM specs from most manufacturers are optimistic, at best. Part of the issue is that CFM by itself is a useless stat. What you want to know is how much CFM a dust collector can pull against a certain static pressure. Many dust collectors spec out a CFM and a static pressure separately. For example, the Tempest system you mentioned states:Airflow: 1350 CFM Free Air
650 CFM thru Cyclone
Max Static Pressure: 10.0"Now, this makes it look at first glance that this system can pull 650 CFM against 10" of static pressure. This is far from the case. Instead, the system can pull 650 CFM through the cyclone against minimal resistance, and can move a minimal amount (read: close to 0 CFM) of air at 10" of static pressure. In fact, you can see this on the fan curve provided by Penn State Industries on the web page for the fan.Static pressure is important because as soon as you put ducting up, you'll raise the static pressure against which your dust collector will have to work, and quickly drop the effective CFM of your system. Under real world conditions, where the static pressure in your ducting is probably up in the 7-8" range, your effective airflow will be just over 300 CFM with this unit.Given the published performance of this system, unless you have exceedingly short duct runs, it won't do what's required to collect fine dust.
While I do expect to have relatively short duct runs, they won't be exceedingly short. Thanks for answering. It's much quicker to ask you all than trying to digest all the info on the web, including the Pentz stuff - although I plan to keep doing so and learning over time.
I like that the ClearVue has the support of many folks here and that they have tried to follow design recommendations of a recognized expert. It's just a large monetary committment at this point for a part-time hobbyist to buy any of these. But you all have convinced me that the old style non-cyclone bag collectors are not worth the bargain.
What specs can I as a novice dust collector hone in on when evaluating the varied cyclone collectors so as to get a better idea of the functional "dust-moving" CFM of the machines?
I also am in the process of installing my Clearvue, which I purchased last summer before the price increase. I'm taking vacation next week, and my goal is to get the unit fully installed. I'm using 2729 sewer pipe throughout, and began installing the main trunk today. I completed the wiring last weekend, using #10 with a 30 amp breaker. I followed Ed's recommendation on the switch and purchased a 30 amp relay with a 110v control. The control circuit is powered off one leg of the 220v circuit. I decided to go with a remote FM switch, simply because it requires less wiring. I purchased the remote at Menard's for $10! (note that Radio Shack no longer handles this type of switch).I have a basement shop, so my primary concern at this point is controlling the noise level. So I'm trying to use all the pointers that Bill Pentz outlined. I'm planning to install a flexible rubber connector betweeen the cyclone and the piping. Also, I will be using a 12' run of 10" insulated HVAC between the cyclone and the filter, with a couple of 45 degree bends. Maybe 8" HVAC would be ok, but decided that going with 10" wouldn't hurt.I will plan to provide some updates this week as I get further along with the work.
-Bob Myers
Bob,What do you estimate (in hours) that your total install time will be from start to finish?Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Glaucon,The install turned out to be a major project, because I ended up changing the entire layout of my shop. This includes moving some of the electric and the overhead lights. One thing that is making the duct layout easier is my laser level. It makes it relatively easy to determine the suspension points on the overhead joists. Also, I attached it to piece of wood at a 45 degree angle. Then I could rest it against my main feeder line and easily determine the location for the Wyes feeding the secondary ducting.The actual assembly of the cyclone is relatively simple. Its the ducting that requires the time and effort. Probably spent more time thinking about it than actual assembly. -- At any rate, I am committed to getting most of it installed by New Year's!-Bob.
Thank you!
I will start installing this week.
Thanks for the info, will look forward
to any updates.Merry ChristmasJay
Yes, Clearvue is the best. It is also the best value.
Wiring: I used 10 gauge and 30 amp braker. For the switch, I purchased the remote system for the 5 hp grizzly cyclone. It was a more expensive solution, but it simplified a wiring process that I was less than enthusiastic about doing myself.
Todd
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