I am rather new to woodworking, but boy am I quickly getting addicted. I started about a year ago and have made a couple of tables from poplar, a blanket chest from red oak and a couple of small items from some exotic woods I got at the local Rockler and Woodcraft. The bulk of my wood has been coming from the BORGs, but I now have the tools to not require S4S lumber and the knowledge that better lumber and prices can probably be had elsewhere. Where should I be looking. I have checked out craigslist and found some lumber around. Should I be going to traditional lumberyards? Do private parties typically sell in small amounts, i.e. if I am not looking for hundreds of BF of walnut or cherry? I figured I would ask you all with experience, before I started making phone calls or visits to lumber yards. Any guidance is appreciated.
I live in Cleveland, Ohio.
Replies
ATM,
I can't answer your specific questions as I live in Britain and don't know the US timber market. But may suggest you add another possiblity to sourcing wood for your projects: reclaimed stuff from the many sources in a modern society that "renews" things on a daily basis. In short, reclaimed and recycled timber from demolitions, refurbishments and many other sources that will otherwise cast very good timber into the landfill or bonfire.
To get this stuff you will need to be persistent to the point of being cheeky. You must seek out refurbishment and renewal projects, as well as demolitions, and pester the blokes there about the timber being ripped out and skipped. But I've found, in England at least, such lads are happy to give you the timber as it's no skin off their nose - especialy if you hand over a bit of beer-money. It saves them the effort of having to take it to the landfill and they also get a righteous glow from having recycled rather than wasted the wood.
Often I've swapped a bit of furniture made with the free wood for the free wood supply. A ratio of 3 - 4 X free wood to 1 X wood-in-the-furniture seems reasonable to me, assuming the furniture is not a highly complex piece needing a hundred man-hours or more to make.
Such timber does have drawbacks - it might need fixings and fitting removed; holes and damage removed. And sometimes there is insufficient to get a good grain or colour match in a piece made from it, even if there is plenty of timber volume-wise.
But its free!
Lataxe
Thanks for the response Lataxe. I should probably think more about recycled wood. I was too worried about nails, screws, etc., but the more I read it seems a lot of people here make some real nice things out of recycled timber. I bet the satisfaction which comes from recycling some old wood is pretty nice.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Another way to locate other sources in your area is to check out http://www.woodfinder.com There are often smaller sources that might be off your radar otherwise. Also you may find some of the places that cater to cabinet shops and the like will sell to individuals. You won't be able to buy parts of boards, but if you are willing to buy full boards--often 12ft, sometimes 8ft. then they can be good sources, often with very knowledgeable folks working there.
Edited 2/27/2009 9:42 am ET by SteveSchoene
Get a good metal detector like the Wizard.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
I just purchased some recycled lumber. It is all yellow pine and most is heart wood. It came from an old warehouse, built about 110 years ago. It is all rough sawn with the original sawyer marks and most of what I got was quarter or rift sawn. I bought about 100bf for $10, the group is just looking to move it out with hopes someone will put it to good use instead of a landfill. There was also 8/4 by 12" rock maple, lengths up to 14 feet, which was from some warehouse flooring. There was a sample planed and finished with oil, which looked beautiful. Really tight growth rings and it weighed a ton compared to the pine, which was the heaviest pine I've ever felt. Thanks for everyone's tips. I think I have found my first good source for reclaimed stock. The gentleman told me to email him anytime! I'm heading out to pick up a metal detector and start milling up some boards!
I have to ask. :<) What do they want for the maple?
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
$12bf for the maple, which was too steep for me starting out. Is that a reasonable price. After talking with the gentleman I met, he does not seem to be trying to take advantage of one at all. Real nice guy.
$12 per bf is way too expensive and not reasonable in my book. Yoder Lumber's price list says $3.320 for 1-200 bf in Prime grade. That is a huge difference to me; I can joint and plane it, my preference anyway, for a lot less than the difference in the price.
You got a heck of a deal on the pine! Congrats!!
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
Atm,
Another freewood addict is borned! Well done, my boy - keep it up and let us know of your finds. I claim only a "25% of the timber" fee for making the suggestion. Of course, it is too far for me to come and git it. :-)
Lataxe
I have bought lots of lumber from local lumberyards and have found them to be very helpful and friendly. I have never had to buy a minimum quantity, but you have to purchase the whole board...you can't ask them just sell you 5 feet of an 8-foot board. Lumberyards often offer planing services for a fee and sometimes this is helpful if you are working with boards that are too wide for your planer. It's a lot easier to finish the job with a hand plane if the board is reasonably flat to begin with. If you are buying rough wood, make sure to buy enough extra to allow you to trim off any uneven edges, sapwood, checks, etc.
One lumberyard here only offers S2S lumber, no dimensional wood. Virtually all of their stuff is finished to 13/16" and they offer little, if any, thicker stock. I avoid them unless I can't find what I am looking for elsewhere. Don't be afraid to go into the lumberyard and talk with the people there. Let them show you what they have. Ask questions and I think you will find them to be helpful. After all, this is their business. If you're not happy with them, find another lumberyard.
Jim
Thanks Steve & Jim. I have used woodfinder.com, although I thought the results were really disappointing for my area. It only listed a hand full of sources, which I know can not be the case for Cleveland. I need to start visiting some lumber yards as suggested and get a sense of what they have. I have grown up in the age of the BOGR and haven't been to a lumberyard since I was a little kid. Maybe it is time I get reacquainted with lumberyards. When I said I wanted small quantities, it is only because I am limited by space. Buying full boards is not a problem. My question regarding minimum quantities was more centered around private sellers on posts like craigslist. Most posters list that they have several hundred board feet for sale. I was curious whether it was worth their time to sell, say 30 board feet. Also, if I buy rough lumber, what should I look for, besides twist & cup.
Somewhere on this site is a list of local lumberyards and mini-mills submitted by members. You might wanna poke around a bit and see if you can find it.
FWIW, I often drive up to 1-1/2 hrs. to get wood. You just learn to stock up! ;-)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
You are lucky, in the Middlefield area near Cleveland there are a number of Amish saw mills and kiln driers and this past year I have purchased hundreds of bd.ft. of maple, cherry and red oak from them. They will sell you one board or a truck load. Prices are great. I have purchased form several and I can't remember their names because we go there with my truck and when we see a mill we stop in and if the price is right I pick up a few hundred bd.ft.
Edited 2/27/2009 9:01 pm ET by mrbird90
Can you give me an idea of prices from the Amish mills. I was not aware of Middlefield. I have been down to Millersburg, but Middlefield is significantly closer. It is amazing how you don't know some of these places until you start looking or asking around. Also, what are the typical length, 8ft? I would need to plan ahead before taking a drive.
If you are willing to drive to Millersburg, Yoder Lumber is there and they have a huge selection of hardwood and no minimum. You can get a better price if you buy in quantity but they will sell you what you want in full board lengths. They do have some "shorts" 6' to 7' lengths that are slightly cheaper in some varities. Yoder's website is here. I make the drive from Columbus and it is really worth the trip. They are open Mon-Fri.
A smaller yard that is a little further away is Almindinger's in Johnstown. Website here. They have a smaller yard than Yoder but have a nice selection at great prices and they are open Saturday mornings. I have bough a bunch from them also.
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
Thanks for the names Bruce, and the websites. That is a big help and is much appreciated. I have been down to Charm, where Yoder is before, although not to buy lumber. Thanks for the info.
Have you been to Keim Lumber in Charm?
kreuzie
Soft maple was 2.00/bd.ft, cherry was 2.80, red oak was 2.50 I also bought a stack of cutoffs which were 4' long random widths of s. maple for $0.90/bd.ft. 140bd.ft bundle was $126.00 plus tax. That lumber place in Johnstown also has good prices but is about 2 hr. drive for me and Middlefield is about 90 minutes. Both places sell in 8. 10 & 12 foot lengths and all hard wood is random width but once you go there enough they will let you select your widths with no extra charge. good luck. I just looked up my last purchase and it was from Byler's Kiln Drying in Middlefield, OH.
Edited 2/27/2009 8:58 pm ET by mrbird90
First off you are getting great prices compared to what I've paid in the past. I just priced soft maple at 3.20 locally with a 20 mile drive. Take the gas cost add to the bill devide by your bf and your new $/bf is still great. I'd travel 4hrs for prices like that any day. I am assuming kd stuff and was this common #1 or FAS?Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Yes, it is all kiln dried and it was all FAS grade. You have to look for these small places as 10 miles away there is a much bigger drier and his prices are 75% higher than Byler's. Bylers is an Amish owned and run place and is small compared to most driers.
Congrats and many fun projects!Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Around here (SE Michigan), it is possible to buy hardwood lumber at the local lumber yard which stocks mostly construction lumber. However, their prices are high and the selection is limited. Check in the yellow pages for smaller lumber yards which specialize in hardwood lumber. There are four such lumber yards in a 30-mile radius from my home. Two of these yards are actually quite large. You can buy lumber there in the rough or have them surface it for you. They carry domestic and exotic hardwoods in many sizes. Some give a volume discount but all will sell in small quantities. Prices are fairly reasonable.
ChipTam
I've had great luck with lumber wholesalers, who offer a lot more variety (and much better prices) than retailers in my neck of the woods. They typically only sell to contractors, not hobbyists--I'm a hobbyist like you. I've been doing some pieces for others so I set up some accounts as a sole proprietor (printed off some business cards, that's all I needed). That gave me access to wholesalers.
You may want to ask around at some professional WW shops to see where they get their wood, often they can point you to gems... Or give you their offcuts! (Amazing what some production shops throw away, but I guess they need the space.)
Good luck,
Pete
Thanks for the tip Peter. It is amazing what a business card can get you! I never thought about cutoffs, but that is also a great idea. I need to start making contact with some WW shops and such.
Lataxe's comment about looking for reclaimed wood reminded me of something.
My church decided to replace some of their 20’ long church pews with upholstered chairs. It wasn’t something I agreed with, but when they were faced with disposing of the pews I was there to help. We first tried to find another church to give the pews to but didn’t have any luck. Material like this is usually just sent to a landfill. So, I took them home and ended up with a big pile of 70 year old white oak.
If you spend a little time researching you can usually find local options. In my area (Michigan) there are a lot of guys with portable sawmills and that’s where I’ve gotten most of my wood. They often advertise on Craigslist or in the paper. It doesn’t make sense to do this unless you buy a bit at a time, say 50-100 bf. One of the reasons to go this route is so that you have matched lumber from the same tree.
While I like buying local rough lumber, it’s not for everyone. My father purchases his material from a local specialty lumber store. He has them joint, thickness and cut to rough dimensions. He pays more for the lumber but he doesn’t need to store lumber, have a bunch of tools, or spend the time dimensioning lumber.
A good way to find sources is to talk to people in your local woodworkers guild: http://www.neohiowoodworkersguild.org/
Thanks for all the tips. I bet those church pews yielded some nice lumber! It is funny that I have had no problem picking out tools and outfitting my small shop, but the most intimidating part to me is actually buying the lumber! Everyone's feedback is really appreciated.
If you are anywhere near Ohio I would be interested in purchasing some of it for restoration work on late 1800 phonograph cabinets etc. Using new wood is not an option because it does not match old growth oak. No matter what you do you cannot make new oak look like old oak.
Welcome to woodworking ! I work for http://www.eagleamerica.com (Woodworkers Outlet) in Chardon.
We have a courtesy list and map for the local mills in this area. Burton, Middlefield, Hartsgrove Mesopotamia Twps. Stop in and I'll give you a copy. You can check out our "Toys" while your at it.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Thanks Bruce! I will try to make it out that way in the coming weeks. It would be great to get the map you have, and looking over new toys is always fine with me!
Hey ATM, I'm new to woodworking too...at first I had a heck of a time finding wood, for my first project I got some wood from a saw mill (knotless pine)...my dad knew of the place and it was a bit far away...so I started searching on the web for saw mills closer to me. I live in a pretty metropolitan area so the next closest mill was at least a 45 minute drive. There were lumber yards, but it was a lot of plywood and 2x4 type of material only...but then I stumbled upon an "exotic woods" store, oddly I was reading this thread about a guy who makes canoe paddles and he had a link or two, the place was privately owned and just two streets away from where I work. I never found it because I was searching for "saw mills" not "exotic woods". This place has a ton of different and interesting woods from anything domestic (maples, oaks, cedars, ash, walnut) to imported african, south american and european types and so on. So, don't forget to search for "exotic wood" in your search.
I noticed from your profile that you are in Cleveland. It's been 7 or 8 years, but NE Ohio is my former home.
There is (was?) a place called Berea Hrdwoods that had lots to offer, but they specialized in turning blocks. They had other nice stuff, but most was turning blanks.
And I fell in love with Doll hardwoods in Phalanx Mills. Its not as near to Cleveland as you might like, but the selection of local hardwoods was awesome. Lots of cherry, walnut, some maple..... but sassafrass, butternut, hickory, birch, oak......
And the owner is (was?) widely recognized within the industry as a really good forester and sawmill operator.
Having said all that, I'll also say that there is a website (http://www.woodfinder.com) that will direct you to many others.
Good luck.
I used to live in that area also, and there was a really good hardwood shop on Rt 84 in Painsville. I can't remember the name, but they were very helpful, and would help you along with all the hardwood questions.
Good Lucik phil
That was Western Reserve Hardwood on SR 84. He USED to have a great selection of bizarre locals and many burl heads. Even some great imports, like a 6/4 X 10" X 6' Pink Ivory ( WAY beyond my budget). But alas the shop is no longer.
Sure wish I could have gotten ahold of The Monster One Way lathe he had.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
A Big Thanks to everyone who has responded and offered me some guidance. I am really glad I asked this question here because I learned of many places around my area to visit for wood. Thanks for everyone's input. I look forward to stopping by Woodworker's Supply and saying hi to you Bruce!
Lots of great advice already given here. I would just add one comment. Talking to people is a great resource!! Don't be afraid to ask questions, inquire about other sources etc. Ask for a discount. Most of the places I've dealt with will knock off a bit on the price if you buy 100 bd. ft. or more.
Tell everyone you know that you're looking for wood; network. You never know when someone will offer you a great deal. You will be amazed at what turns up for free. I recently scored a chunk of spalted Maple---about 1000 lb. It was a dead tree lying on the ground and all I needed was permission to haul it off!!
Be as aggressive and outgoing in your search as you can stand to be!!
To paraphrase an old comic book "wood will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no wood"!
Best of luck in your quest!
Mack
"Close enough for government work=measured with a micrometer, marked with chalk and cut with an axe"
Thanks for all the advise. I was just looking on craigslist and found an add from someone selling reclaimed pine from a 100+ year old warehouse, just down the street from me. It is de-nailed and they are asking $.25 per lineal foot for 2x6's (true 8/4 stock). It sounds like some pretty cheap lumber worth some beginning projects. I have refinished some of the pine woodwork in my 100 year old house and I love the way it finishes. I think I will be picking up some wood :)
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