Replies

1. 
   Pondfish | Jan 07, 2006 07:54am | #1

   You are applying a classic oil/varnish finish (the turpentine is a thinner added to help penetration; it isn't helping much after your first few coats).

   The finish is not that hard, but it is very easy to repair (namely, rub in more o/v).  You can also wipe it clean with water or a mild detergent.  You can always add a coat every year to revitalize the finish.

   It won't be a problem with your kids, no cured finish is toxic.

   Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
2. 
   SteveSchoene | Jan 07, 2006 08:01am | #2

   You essentially have a Watco finish, an oil/varnish mix.  You may use 6 coats, though it is probably a bit of overkill.  But you should wipe on, and then wipe off so you don't get substantial build up on the surface since the cured finish will be rather soft.  It is designed to be an "in-the-wood" finish, not something that creates a film over the wood.  As far as maintenance, yes a damp (not wet) wipe down is fine.  Every couple of years or so it will begin to look a bit dull or faded.  Then clean with mineral spirits and put on another coat of fresh finish.  This kind of finish doesn't offer much protection, although more than oil alone would offer.  But it is dead easy to refresh. 

   By the way, you could substitute mineral spirits for the turpentine and change the smell.  Both are just solvents that mostly just evaporate away in the end. 

1. 
   rudolph | Jan 07, 2006 04:33pm | #3

   Thanks. This is the first time I've used a forum like this an it really helps when you jsut need a little nudge. I really appreciate the help!

2. 
   DougF | Jan 13, 2006 05:58pm | #4

   Steve,

   I can't find the article but I posted it several months ago regarding turp's properties wherein it bonds with the resins rather than simply flashing off.  While the difference in the final finish may not be great , it is nonetheless, more than a simple thinner.  If you are interested I will try to find the article for you.

   Rudolph, wax the table with a good quality past wax.  When it is time to renew the oil/poly, wipe the table down with naptha to clear the wax and re-coat followed by more new wax when you are finished. 

   Doug

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jan 13, 2006 06:15pm | #5

   I would be quite interested.  I have always known turpentine changes the brushing properties differently than does mineral spirits when each is added to varnish, but I always thought that it was due to having slightly stronger solvent power than mineral spirits. 

1. 
   DougF | Jan 13, 2006 08:44pm | #6

   Steve, the article to which I previously referred is reprinted below.  There are many other references to the resinous qualities of turpentine but this article really puts it into perspective as an additive to varnish, linseed and tung oils.  My personal experience in using turp and mineral spirits parallels the article both in terms of turp as a drier and as flowing agent.  Yes, the order does linger for a few days but .......... 

   http://www.violinvarnish.com/turpentine.htm<!----><!----> <!---->

   "Natural turpentine is obtained from tapping or scraping the wounds on a variety of coniferous trees. The crude turpentine (scrape) is about 20% essential oils, 60% solids, and 20% water and waste material. <!----><!---->

   While the range of products known as turpentine includes balsam oil, Stroudsbourg and Venetian turpentine, the rosin oils, and oil of turpentine, which have specific but limited applications in the making of varnish, by far the most important is pure gum spirits. Separating the essential oil and solid content of crude turpentine makes pure gum spirits. The crude gum is heated, refined, and separated by distillation into gum spirits and rosin. The standards for the manufacture of pure gum spirits dates, in the <!----><!----><!---->US<!----><!---->, to colonial times when the colonies were a prime source for "naval stores". These same standards remain in effect today. <!----><!---->

   In the manufacture of varnish pure gum spirits has a variety of roles. It is a solvent, a flowing agent, and a drier. <!----><!---->

   As a solvent in linseed oil varnish turpentine is unique. Turpentine cannot be considered a solvent in the same way that alcohol dissolves shellac or water dissolves salt. These are solutions where a specific quantity of solid combines with the solvent to form a diluted copy of itself. Evaporate the solvent and the solid is left unaltered. Linseed oil is highly solvent in turpentine at room temperature. Once combined however, the turpentine and linseed oil cannot be separated by distillation into the original components. Turpentine and linseed oil are mutually soluble. Some resins are directly soluble in turpentine. Some resins require processing to make them soluble. Natural varnish resins are compounds. A mixture of turpentine and resin will contain dissolved and undissolved elements suspended in the mixture. Resin solutions are colloidal in nature and once established will not break down into their original components. Natural varnish resins and turpentine are mutually soluble. In the varnish making process turpentine is added to the resin and oil to promote the mutual solubility of the three elements.<!----><!---->

   As a flowing agent turpentine is superior to other solvents. If a linseed oil varnish is made in the same way, except mineral spirits is used instead of turpentine, and samples of each are brushed on the same surface, the brush marks will flow out of the turpentine varnish first and most completely. As the varnish film cures mineral spirits will evaporate completely. Turpentine never completely evaporates. A small percentage remains in the varnish as an elastic resinous substance. <!----><!---->

   Turpentine acts as a drier in linseed oil varnish. When pure turpentine is exposed to the atmosphere at room temperature it begins to thicken and gain molecular weight. It absorbs oxygen from the air faster and more efficiently than linseed oil. In varnish it passes oxygen from the air to the oleo-resinous compound."<!----><!---->

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1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jan 14, 2006 05:17am | #9

   Thanks.  Thats very interesting. 

   I'm not sure from what that says that it is a good thing or a bad thing since pine gum resins aren't themselves wonderful resins for varnish.  eg. colophony or rosin yields a poor "common brown varnish" dissolved in spirits of turpentine.   Solved in boiled linseed oil rosin gives a oil varnish.  According to some conservation literature rosin breaks down quickly and severely. 

   http://www.ukic.org.uk/fw/cn/72-4.htm

   Now I have no idea whether the residual resins in spirits of turpentine ie. pure gum turpentine have any of this effect or not.  My guess: The amounts are so small in good grades of turpentine as no not matter either way. 

3. 
   JohnWW | Jan 13, 2006 09:37pm | #7

   One thing that's been left unsaid here is the possibility of damage that goes entirely through the finish and into the wood itself. 

   This wouldn't happen if spills are wiped up promptly, but a juice, water, or wine spill that sat overnight, especially if it sat under a glass or plate where it wouldn't dry out, could easily migrate through the finish and enter the wood creating a dark stain when the liquid reacts with chemicals in the wood.  At this point, the stain could only be removed by actually scraping and sanding away the damaged and stained wood fibers, a much more complicated and often visible repair no matter how carefully done.

   John W.   

1. 
   rudolph | Jan 14, 2006 03:28am | #8

   Well I guess I never thought of that aspect. I supose putting an outer plastic shell of Poly or whatever would be the only thing to stop a spill from entering the wood fibers?As far as wax goes....wouldn't that be something you would want to avoid with a dining table or anywhere you might have a glass that would leave a pesky white ring?