As I get more into woodworking, I’m trying to expand my shop. I’ve been doing all my crosscuts on my tablesaw, even long boards, figuring at some point I’ll add a sliding compound miter saw to handle that task and others.
In the meantime, I’d been considering getting a souped-up aftermarket miter gauge, since it looks like one would be very helpful with at least my shorter crosscuts and miters and the expense is a fraction of a good 12″ SCMS.
If I get a new miter gauge, will it be redundant when I finally get around to dropping the money on the new saw? I’d rather have a $200 solution right now, but don’t want to wind up with a $200, awkward, cumbersome paper weight later. In that case, I’ll save the money and wait, making due with my clunky factory miter gauge. But I’d like to hear what those with more experience think as far as whether they’d both ultimately be useful.
Thanks!
Jeff
Replies
hypecast,
I bought the miter guage just before my miter saw needed to be replaced. The miter guage is a tremendous asset because its so easily set up and it improves accuracy dramatically. I use it all the time.
When replacing the miter saw I went with a simple compound miter...its been three years and all is fine.
My miter gauge(s) get far more use than my CMS. My CMS isn't as accurate or as convenient with my setup, so it collects dust unless I'm doing long boards like molding.
I recently purchased a Powermatic PM 2000 TS. The supplied
mitre gauge is of decent quality but not effective for cross-cutting longer pieces, so I got a Jessem Mite-R-Excel gauge and it extends from 27" to 36" measured cuts and to infinity when the stop block is swung out of the way. This is one fine piece of gear. It makes all others look flimsy. Link to site http://www.jessem.com/mite_r_excel.htmGuySometime I sits and thinks and sometimes I just sits
"But I'd like to hear what those with more experience think as far as whether they'd both ultimately be useful."
Jeff,
If you plan on getting the most from your table saw, I think you would be wise to consider an after market miter gauge. There are some very good ones available -- some more expensive than others. Your saw is capable of very accurate crosscuts with a high quality miter gauge. I've never understood why manufacturers treat the miter gauge as an afterthought, and I've yet to see a table saw made in the U.S. (perhaps some of the European machines are better equipped) that takes this accessory seriously. Twenty five or thirty years ago many of them jumped on the aftermarket concept by offering fence upgrades from companies like Biesemeyer, Vega and others, and it seems to have worked for them. Anyway, I think you'd get use from both a good miter gauge on your table saw and a sliding compound miter saw
My cross cutting arsenal includes a 12" SCMS, an accurate but simple WoodHaven mitre gauge and a TS sled. They all serve a purpose and get used on most every project. It's great to have 3 accurate ways to crosscut, especially when I want to preserve a setup on one of them. For example cut stretchers to lentgh on the SCMS and make tenon shoulder cuts on the TS. FWIW I have no use for stops or detents beyond 45 and 90 degrees. The chances of getting the degree scales/detents of a supremely accurate mitre gauge and an equally accurate SCMS to agree to the point that compound mitres set by those scales and cut on either are interchangeable are almost nil. To chase it is fiddling for the sake of fiddling. When I'm making chairs I cut a big chunk (2" x 4" or bigger) of QSWO at the req'd compound angle as my reference block. With a good square, a bevel gauge and the ref block I can set up my TS, SCMS, Mortiser, drill press, router jigs, or pretty much anything to the exact angles without using a single degree scale. I think Jeff Miller's excellent book on chair making put me on to this approach.
John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
Besides my panel crosscut sled I use the Osborne EB-3. IMHO It is the most ridgid, repeatible after market miter gauge on the market. Chuck
I liked the Osborne when it first hit the market, but passed it over because of the hassle of switching sides of the blade.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
Hype, I picked up the JDS unit five or six years ago and would be lost without it. I would not get their hold down as it's a little clunky and pricey. Other popular ones can get you to some microscopic level of accuracy but do we really work that way. The JDS is well made, functional and accurate. Good luck, Pat
I've had a JoinTech miter gauge/sliding surface rig for 5 years. The accuarcy is unsurpassed. I was really sold on the fact that the cut is backed up at all angles. I still don't know how they do it.
Frosty
Your responses have all been great. Just wanted to chime in and say thanks!Jeff
What are you using for a saw? Have you/can you, tuned it? What is wrong with the current miter gauge? Getting good performance from what you have just takes a little knowledge. Your existing gauge may just need some fitting and adjustment. It won't be any different with an after market gauge except they have built in adjusters. You can easily add a long fence to the existing gauge. I think it's important to add a non slip surface to the face, this can be done by gluing some sandpaper to the metal or wood face. Most of the time it isn't the gauge but how it is set up and whether your work slips or not.
If you want to spend some money, buy a pair of Incra miter sliders. These are adjustable metal tracks that fit your miter ways. You add a piece of plywood, a bar and you have a dedicated sled. I have several, one for 90° cuts , one for 45°'s, some for bevels and a long one that can be used for ripping. I only use the gauge for unusual cuts and I normally accessorize the miter gauge with an added fence, clamps or non skid surface. Sleds are some of the easiest and most accurate methods for cross cutting.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
"but don't want to wind up with a $200, awkward, cumbersome paper weight later." I don't think you will, but if you expect the SCMS to be the saving grace down the road, I'll suggest opting for the Incra 1000SE right now, something over $125...not sure what kind of deals you can get on it....but it'll give you accuracy and repeatability at an excellent price, and you'll never feel like turning it into a paperweight!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I have the Incra 3000SE, use it on my unisaw. I haven't used the OEM gauge since I got the Incra, It's accurate, stable and 100% repeatable. I'd spend the money again in a heartbeat. (and yes, I have a SCMS, but only use it on long stuff that can't be easily controlled on a table saw)Jim
I hope hypercast sees your post! Sure wish the SE model had been out when I got my 1000. Still like it though!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I'll admit it, I'm a Incra snob. I have a Ultra 32 fence on my Unisaw, a proII fence I use on my router table and the 3000SE mitre gauge. I love the accuracy and the ease of use.Jim
To each his own. I've got an Incra 1000SE and I don't like it. I'm not much of a fusser and I want my stop block to be easy to move and set. Not the case with the Incra. I bought a Jessem Mast R Slide a few weeks ago and I'm going to get rid of the Incra.
Next time I get an extra $600 just layin' around, guess I should get the MastRSlide. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I have an Incra 1000SE that I purchased some time after getting the Incra 5000. I also have some of the rules, squares, and 45s. I am very pleased with them all. I have also taken advantage of the ability to use both stop blocks on one bar. <Yammers on incoherently for a while, then snaps back to why he's posting emoticon>
The reason I joined in, though is to note that I had an accuracy/repeatability problem with my 5000 and called Taylor Design. I was given some troubleshooting tips and things to check. I called back with the results; we kicked a few more things around on the phone while I had the parts in my hand. A few days later the parts arrived--the problem is solved. The customer service was a great experience.
Perhaps PolarSea1 could sell his 1000SE to ForestGirl, or to the OP, Hypecast. As far as the improved miter gauge becoming a boat anchor when Hypecast get his SCM cutoff saw, I would guess probably not. I would think squaring up an 18x38 panel would be a tad difficult, or perhaps squaring a small tabletop.
If budget isn't a problem, I would think a quality after-market miter gauge will serve well into the future. Otherwise, I would look into the tips for tuning whatever thang the manufacturer threw in with the tablesaw.
"Perhaps PolarSea1 could sell his 1000SE to ForestGirl, or to the OP, Hypecast." I'll survive with the regular 1000, but there could be a good deal for Hypecast. They sure don't come up for sale often.
To Hypecast: Sorry I called you "hypercast" ealier. My bad, as they young crowd says.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 9/30/2006 1:48 pm by forestgirl
I have built cross cut sleds for any situation that comes up. They are very accurate and basically free. Fixed jigs do not get out of alignment.
My personal opinion on these aftermarket miter guides is that they fall into the “take your money gizmo” stuff, just like all those sharpening jigs.
Not to take away from crosscut sleds, I've built and used several, but I've come to prefer my Incra 3000SE over my crosscut sleds. I've found it easier to use, easier to store and meet all of my needs to date.Edited to add:I did forget to mention I have a sliding table on my Uni, the old style with the articulating arm. I often use it conjunction with the Incra.
Edited 9/30/2006 6:41 pm ET by JimV
Napie,I bought a Dubby crosscut sled from Jerry Cole at In-Line Industries.
Their website is:
http://www.in-lineindustries.com/You can get it adjusted to make any angle cut with high precision. I recommend it over an aftermarket miter gauge. You can read a review at:
http://www.thewoodshop.20m.com/dubby.htm
This is a good review. He lists many things he doesn't like about the Dubby as well as things he likes. It is worth taking a peek at. It has served me well.
Enjoy.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Like FG I have the Incra 1000 and really like it for the $$$ spent, wasn't fond of the Incra 2000, Incra 3000 is a 1000 on steroids. Next mitre gauge will be a JessEm mite-r-excel, there is a small learning curve with it (using the pin stops). But built like a Swiss watch. I have installed a JessEm Mast-R-Slide on an X5 UniSaw but haven't checked the accuracy yet. It's accuracy will depend heavily on accuracy of the measuring scale on the left side and eyeball interpretation of that scale. There are NO fixed or Pin stops on that unit as with the Mite-R-Excel. But the slide unit is super smooth and very rugged.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
The 2000 sucks! For the life of me, I can't figure out why they designed it the way they did, and why it continues to sell.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I got rid of my radial arm saw and bought a table saw and a 10" Dewalt cms and it is great. But the Mitre gauge that came with the saw I did not trust, so I went out and bought a Kreg mitre gauge and it too works great.
Mark
Jeff,
I met the guy who made this miter gauge at the IWF in Atlanta this year. It's a digital readout that's calibrated to stay true. If I recall, it's a bit on the pricy side, but it is very versital and accurate. You can even use it to set your blade angle for compound cuts. Check out his site and watch the video @ http://salazarsolutions.com/
-GW
SCMS will run you $400 to $700 and you will need to build a miter station if you want to add stops for repeatable cuts. These machines are highly portable!
A RAS will give you greater crosscut capacity (20 inches or so) but it will run $500 to $1200 - and again, you will have to add stops for repeatable cuts.
Aftermarket miter gages are great. I have the Incra 2000. It is pretty sweet and accurate! Only downside, as with most miter gages, is that you are limited on your crosscut capacity.
Sleds are a great alternative, as most cross cutting is 90 or 45 degrees. If you buy the incra miter sliders - you'll get plans on how to build them - should only run $50 to $75 for the sliders and material.
For the money and ease of use - an aftermarket sliding table for your table saw may be worth looking at (assuming you have the space). On the low end, I think you'll get 36" of cross cutting capacity. On the high-end, you"ll get 60" of crosscutting madness!
Myself, I have the Excalibur LT49, a RAS, 12" SCMS and the Incra 2000. In my shop (and every shop is different), my Excalibur gets the most use - and could be used in place of the other tools.
Edited 10/2/2006 3:16 pm ET by Tbagn
Hypecast,
I bought a Dubby crosscut sled from Jerry Cole at In-Line Industries.
Their website is:
http://www.in-lineindustries.com/
You can get it adjusted to make any angle cut with high precision. I recommend it over an aftermarket miter gauge.
You can read a review at:
http://www.thewoodshop.20m.com/dubby.htm
This is a good review. He lists many things he doesn't like about the Dubby as well as things he likes.
It is worth taking a peek at. It has served me well.
Enjoy.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
I recently picked up an Incra 1000, after the stock miter gauge on my saw went out of alignment and messed up a bunch of crosscuts for the LAST TIME. With a slightly larger budget I might have gone for the 1000SE, but the 1000 makes me perfectly happy. It's particularly good at repeated angle cuts.
It baffles me that almost every saw on the parket, regardless of how pricy, comes with the same POS miter gauge with only three angle stops, each of which has to be individually adjusted via this fiddly misalignment-prone mechanism. With the Incra gauge, you hold it square to the blade and tighten two hex bolts, and you're done.
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