My little pancake compressor died, so I am in the market for a new one. Any advice on brands and size? I use it mostly for nailing, but I would like to get into some spray finishes. Space is a big factor as my basement shop is small and any tool I have needs to be portable to some extent.
Dan Carroll
Replies
Dan,
I'm in no expert with compressors but when anyone mentions spraying finishes in their basement I shudder with fear. Even with exemplary ventilation I feel it's a recipe for disaster.
Just my 2¢.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
I've sprayed in my basement for decades without incident. Not much real concern because you should never approach the level of fuel to air required for explosion. You will need to shut off pilot lights in both the furnace and if you have one gas water heater..
When I paint cars in the basement during the dead of winter I do use a large diameter air hose hooked to a fan to exhaust the fumes outside and a second hose to provide fresh air. The air extracted by the fan will generate enough of a vacumm to suck in clean fresh outside air.. Small things like woodworking projects I usually don't go to that degree for. and when I've sprayed shellac I don't worry at all..
Now if I had a full time shop where you could possibly generate enough fumes to ignite that would be a whole other story.. I guess to be safe I should add that it really depends on the amount of space available. Small rooms would tend to get to expoliosve levels easier than large rooms.
You should also ensure that there is a good seperation between the basement and the rest of the house.. that may require sealing up (at least in a temp fashion) air going into furnace ducts.
frenchy,
I hear ya. Maybe it's my paranioa but when I seehear folks attempting to do this the old axiom, "If it feels unsafe, it probably is" keeps coming into my head.
Just seems like one little mistake could be your last.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Just seems like one little mistake could be your last.
I'm with you Bob. It seems to me that even if you remove the risk of explosion, you still have some nasty chemicals that I wouldn't want to expose my family to. I doubt any fan solution will get rid of all the fumes in the basement...
I suppose small items could be sprayed... but at that point why not carry it to the garage or yard. It's just not worth the risk.
I'm with you on this one. Besides, even if there weren't an ignition risk, the fumes from any sprayed substance seem to inevitably work their way into the living spaces of the house, no matter how well one seals stuff up or vents outside.
And I dunno which makes my missus madder - putting ourselves at unnecessary explosion risk, or making the house smell like a paint factory.
Jason
Bob,
I understand your concerns and looked into it completely before I started spraying in the basement back in 1974. the concerns are mainly that you will start a fire or create an explosive enviornment that could ignite.
Well, you spray a lot more vapor in the air spraying cars than you ever would spraying furniture. So when I had access to an explosive meter I checked it out. (I used top sell EE and EX rated equipment) I did my own version of mythbusters. First I made a scale model and tried to ignite it. Like the mythbusters I eventually got it to blow up but not before I went to absolutely silly excesses in order to do so.. In a real world situation I would have passed out from lack of oxygen long before I could reach explosive levels.(and that was without fresh air coming in to dilute the mixture back below explosive levels)..
It's not nearly as easy as it would seem.. Watch the mythbusters attempts to ignite a car full of butane lighters or a house filled with a silly amount of bug spray for examples)
As to chemicals My first concern would be fire or explosions but it's also possible for paint fumes to migrate into parts of the house that might affect the health of my family.
We're protected in two ways from that.. First I will not spray paints that aren't reasonably benign.. Shellac is one such paint and laquer is another.. Second gravity is our friend.. the basement is below the rest of the house and as long as duct work is taped off so fumes can't be blown around the house by the furnace fan there is gravity holding paint and even some vapors into the basement. My basement is reasonably well sealed off from the rest of the house. If yours isn't you might look into what could be done to improve that seal or refrain from painting in the future.. While some traces of paint oder can be detected during spraying tiny traces should have no impact on the health of normal people..
If members of your family are sensitive to fumes then of course you won't spray. moreover you won't brush or wipe or do anything else to endanger their health. simply you will have others do it for you , or do without..
However I'm reluctant to continue your myth of the dangers of spraying at home in your basement.. If it were as dangerous as you seem to indicate then where would it be safe? A seperate shop? Why would a seperate building not be expolsive?. Sure if you have an approved paint booth rated EE or EX any fumes would be contained but millions of hobbiests paint stuff every year and I'm sure that there must be hundreds of thousands of those who spray their stuff without incident..
A search thru the records should show how rare buildings exploding every year due to paint fumes. (be carefull not to confuse say gas fumes or natural gas or propane with paint)
Again I understand your concerns, please do as you see fit. However the rareity of paint fumes exploding in homes should provide you with a measure of comfort..
Frenchy... What type of cars are you spraying?
Buster,
sorry to get back to you so late,,
I collect and restore vintage cars, mainly British sports cars but also old race cars. My currant challenge is a 1930 Ford Model A pickup which I'm thinking of making into a woodie.I also have another 1950 MG TD with Jaguar XK-E running gear and a V12 (in pieces) I call it the MGuar to tackle when the woodie is finished..
I also own a D type Jaguar, a 1953 MGTD, and a Jaguar XK-E V12 roadster. All three are used in vintage sportscar racing. (plus the usual run of SUV's, pickups and cars for transportation.
I spray only laquar paint.. it's a wonderful paint to spray, extremely forgiving and you could spray it witha broom in a sandstorm if you wanted. to and still wind up with a fabulous finish..
Frenchy,
Gotta see the Jaguars, gotta see them......post pictures...please.....
That is almost criminal-a D TYPE?
How on earth is that engine going to fit into a mingey MG?-doesn't sound right ...
By Laquar paint I take it you mean Duco? (Non catalysed thinned with lacquer thinners,quick dry, easy to rub out, takes a fine polish-could be described as the French Polish of auto paints).Philip Marcou
Edited 8/27/2007 1:26 am by philip
philip,
a V12 motor will fit in a TD if a bit tight.. However the transmission forces your feet away at a somewhat awkward angle.. Most of the V12's that I have have the Turbo 400 transmission which is wider than the manual trans but won't require a clutch pedal.. I do have one manual gearbox assembly left over from when I switched the V12 to a racing style dog ring transmission, it's tempting but that would shove the pedals really close together and off to the side. Too easy to hit the wrong pedal.. and if you look the track of an XK-E and a MGTD are very nearly identical.
Now only body parts will be used and a whole new frame will fabricated.. I very much want a proper British hotrod. Somewhat in the flavor of the Allard or Cobra except with a proper British engine so if her Magisty should ever visit I won't have anything to apologize for..
Oh, and the wheels on it are special in and of themselves.. they are pin drive knock offs. Real magnesium made by Troutman and Barnes for the original Chaparral Mk 1 they weigh about six ounces each and are too cool..
Plus the knock offs are three eared aluminum ones and the whole effect is neat beyond words..
I've used laquer paint for decades. I like the old nitrocelluliose paint but will accept acrylic in a pinch .
Pictures right now would consist of dust and debris covered car covers shoved into dark spots in the shop..
Edited 8/27/2007 12:55 pm ET by frenchy
frenchy,
Maybe I'm over-reacting 'cause I'm an old fart with essentially NO EXPERIENCE spraying any kind of finish.
It just seems to me that a basement is confining and if you make a mistake...... Just a thought lapse, forget to turn on a fan, open a window, you not only put yourself at risk but anyone else around as well.
I've got 5 gals. of denatured alcohol, decanted into 1 gal. metal cans stored safely away from any source of heat and I go to work each day. There's not a day that goes by that I don't think about those five 1 gal. cans.
Maybe I'm too safety paranoid?
In spite of my disdain for my crappy splitter/blade guard I still install it whenever I rip stock on my TS.
Now back to padding on another layer of shellac on the new jewelry box, working up to a French polish.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
Thank you for your response.
I understand concerns about safety. Hopefully I have a reasonable level of concern but I admit that I'm a damn the torpedoes full speed ahead kinda guy at times.. As to your stored alcohol, of all the flammable liquids they probably are the most benign. If a cap is lose the vapor quickly disapates beyond the flamable. Go visit a doctor someday,, those fumes you smell are denatured alcohol without the 2% denaturing.. alcohol is spread around like water because of it's antiseptic properties.
At least I can count to ten twice using fingers and toes. but I have broken my arm from kickback with a small piece of wood when I failed to install the guard on my table saw.. I can use an excuse that the pieces I was ripping would get caught between the pawls and the splitter when I used it.. They were exactly the right thickness to do just that so the guards were actually dangerous but I could have stopped and switched blades which definately had a factor in the accident.
My point is that I'm not perfect but I use a reasonable level of caution.. (isn't that word reasonable a nice catch phrase?)
"When I paint cars in the basement..."Just how big are those basement stairs of yours, anyway?BruceT
Bruce,
about five feet wide.....(tuck under garage)to see go to 85891.1
Hi,
I just upgraded my compressor to run my hvlp spray gun. I got a makita, about $300. Its portable, and can handle all my gun needs. Sorry dont have the model right here, but it has a nice handle, with room to wrap hoses, and it makes transporting easy.
Hope that helps.
Stevo
What Kidderville said.....
Sprayed finishes in a basement can spell trouble unless you are EXTREMELY careful. Use water-based finishes only, or you could become your neighborhood's version of a suicide bomber.
Solvent based, sprayed finishes, combined with whatever type of heating system your house has, might spell disaster. Even the tiniest spark inside a tripping circuit breaker can ignite some of those mixtures.
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
Not sure what your intent is but I said, "I'm in no expert with compressors but when anyone mentions spraying finishes in their basement I shudder with fear. Even with exemplary ventilation I feel it's a recipe for disaster."
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I am looking to be able to run a spray gun. I have not considered types of finishes, but I see the point about solvent based finishes in a basement (or any other confined space where fumes can get concentrated and ignation risk goes up). I am likely to be doing latex paint for the most part. Is the size of the motor or the size of the tank the important requirement to look at?Dan Carroll
Dan,
I'll defer you question to others as my spraying experience has been spraying poly on a prepared and unfinished kitchen set. And this I did outside on my deck many years ago. Also the only time I have ever sprayed furniture.
My only contribution to this thread is the safety concerns that I have. I keep thinking that no matter how methodical/meticulous we are there is even that slight possibility of making a mistake, and the one could very well be your last.
We are human beings.............
It would pain me to hear about anyone making that kind of mistake.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
The cfm rating at the pressure you will be working with is the important criteria. Since spraying will cause it to run more than nailing you may also want to look into the duty cycle. Regardless of the tank size, once the compressor switches on you will only have the volume of air that the pump can produce at your working pressure. A bigger tank buys you more time to that switch on point.------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
"Not sure what your intent is but I said,......"
My intent was to echo, or reitterate, what you had said, to agree with your posting.
Sorry that it may have seemed like the opposite, it certainly was not intended that way.
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
Yes,
That's what I thought but wasn't sure. Now your post nails it, at least for me! Good show.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
About 20 years ago, I picked up an inexpensive (Sanborn) 2hp compressor with a 5-gallon tank at the new HD in town. Strapped the motor to run on 220, and ran with it. Painted 2 cars and a lot of furniture with it. I draped my carport with visqueen and covered the floor with it. Never painted a thing indoors. Besides blowing yourself up, you can do a lot of damage to your lungs.
Dan,
In a sense I feel bad about raining on your parade and I hope you don't take offense to my ideas/thoughts. It's just that I care very much about all you folks and don't want to see someone put themselves in harms way.
I'd run this by the folks over in the Finishing forum and get their thoughts.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 8/22/2007 7:54 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Don't feel bad, I posted the question to get information and I can not complain about getting responses. It has all been good info and I like the idea of taking the fume problems outside. Not likely to get a clean a finish, but saferDan Carroll
I bought the small (30 gal?) upright portable on wheels Ingersoll Rand. Works great and can handle spraying with conversion guns. I forget the output, but it has a nice oil filled compressor. Costs a bit more than the imports, but IR knows compressors.
bg
I have an Emglo and it will outlast me. It is the type that I have seen around here by home builders doing roofs, houses, etc. It just works. It has seen a *lot* of use including by my son who painted his car, trim around the house, etc.. It's a solid machine. Buy the best, cry once I think the saying goes..
KnotNow,
About twenty five years ago I bought a little compressor made in China.. it must have been one of the first ones the Chineese exported from mainland China because it's a little basic.
Over twenty five years I've worked the death out of that little thing, including sandblasting.. My big compressor quickly runs out of air with the sandblaster I have but I T in the little one and it's enough added air to just about run the sandblaster continuously. Because it's small like your emglo it's been up on my roof and in the race car hauler plus dozens of other uses.. I have a a really long (100foot) air hose hooked up to tools that I'm using on the roof of the hose, rather than drag it down I use the little compressor to do a lot of tasks like fill tires and blow off sawdust.
I paid $50.00 for it brand new in a box and the dealer said that he'd take it back if I wasn't happy with it. So I took a chance.. I'm glad I did.. the price you pay for stuff doesn't always equate to it's durability or performance.
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