I have a few cherry,walnut, and white oak trees I will be having sawn into lumber and air drying. I want to make sure the drying process is done correctly to make sure I get quality lumber for making furniture.
I thought this would be a great place to get some advice on how to successfully air dry lumber. If you could give me your process that would be helpful.
Replies
There is a lot of information around on this topic. My own experience with white oak has been that with wood up to 8/4, stacked on a dead level footing under a shelter but outdoors and stickered for air flow, I was able to use the lumber in three years.
I wish I had end coated the boards, though, as I lost a few inches per board on each end to cracks.
I have air dried thousands of bd. ft. of lumber over the years so here is some advice from this corner of the world (MI). I am not sure where you are, but I don't think that matters significantly. The most important factor is to get your foundation ( 6x6's or blocks) dead flat and level as possible. Flat is critical, level is a good idea. End coat each board with a professional end coat material (timber framers) or you can use a paraffin wax turpentine mix (electic hotplate only)or you can use some old latex exterior house paint if you have it around. I have used all three and the pro stuff works best, but they all work. Put some on your logs if you haven't already. Paint up about 2-3" on each board end as you are stacking it. Lay out your first layer on you base, leaving about 1" between each board. Make your pile no wider than 4' because the inside boards won't dry as fast. Place your first row of stickers 2' o.c. I made my stickers out of old construction lumber 1" thick min. (stickers have to be dry). Put your next layer of boards on keeping all you stickers lined up perfectly to prevent wavy boards. Keep the edges of the pile vertical don't worry about lining up interior boards, but you want the outside straight up from your base. My stacks usually never exceed 4' tall, but that is for balance and management (don't have a forklift). Keep all your thicknesses the same per layer and I usually put my junky stuff near the top for weight. I have a leanto, but if you have to do it out in the open cover the top with a sheet of plywood weighted down with blocks and a sheet to the prevailing wind side (west for me). You dont want the wood to dry out too fast so you want to block the windward side. I take my stuff to a kiln after 6 months of air drying (summer and fall ), but if you want to use air dried lumber to build with figure 1 year per inch of thickness. I hope this isn't too redundant.
Terry
Terry
1 year an inch I do not agree with. I was taught 2 years per inch of thickness to correctly air dry wood and this has served me well. I agree with you that the wood must lie flat (dead level is not as critical), be stickered and limiting to 4 feet wide is not a bad idea, but not that important if the boards have spaces between them and are then stickered between layers. The width of the pile is determined more by the ability to work comfortably when stacking. You will still have proper air circulation with a pile 6 feet or even 8 feet wide. It is when the boards are pushed one against the other that there are air circulation problems.
If one is really determined to get the best dry, the pile is dismantled and reassembled after a year, flipping the boards so that the bottom becomes the top. JL
Jeanlou
Drying time depends as much on species as it does on geographical location and weather conditions. I saw 95% of the wood I work with, and it is all air dried. I don't like kiln drying, as it removes much of the natural colors, especially in Cherry and Walnut. I've had stacks of Cherry and Walnut that were cut to 4/4 that were ready to use in as little time as 6 to 7 months. Hard Maple takes me a little longer, and White Oak even more. Red Oak seems to be one of the more difficult North American hardwoods to air dry, but I don't use it at all in my work, so I don't worry about it. I sold the last Red Oak that I air dried about 3 years ago, and haven't cut another log since.
Get the stack as absolutely level as possible. It IS important. I'll post a picture of some maple I sawed 8 years ago when I was a newbie to sawyering. The stack was out of level by about 1/4" over 10 feet in length. Every single board in that stack ended up with a 1/4" bow. It was an expensive lesson, as the quality of that stack was outstanding, with tons of curl and birdseye. I used it all, but had to use it in smaller cabinets and furniture so as not to lose thickness when flattening and planing.
To add to all the other information here, another great way to hold the boards down besides putting 1000 lbs of concrete block or weights on top is to use come-along straps (ratchet straps) wrapped around the stack next to each row of stickers. Crank em' tight, and after a few weeks, tighten em' again. Water loss causes the wood to shrink, and you need to keep checking them.
I rotate all my stacks after 2 month's, and again at 6 months (top boards to bottom, and turned over, etc...) and have noticed a slight upgrade in quality to the finished product. And, just to be accurate, this is my 16 year old son's job, not mine. It's back breaking work. <g>
After a few months outside, I stack all my lumber inside a wood shed I have (rebuilt horse stable, I don't have horses). At one time, I had over 10,000 bf drying in there, but I presently have less than 2,000 bf left. I'll be at it again this year to fill it up.
Good thread.
Jeff
PS I haven't looked at that picture in a while. DON'T use red oak stickers. The tannin in oak will stain other woods. I got lucky with this pile, as the staining was minimal, as I recall. I've heard horror stories of 1" thick and 1/4" deep stains.
Edited 3/5/2007 10:41 am ET by JeffHeath
Nice reply Jeff. Once the poster puts together all the answers, he should be able to dry a decent pile of lumber. JL
I think you misunderstood what I said, Jeff. I said the stack has to be dead flat. I level my stack length, width and diagonally, but I meant the whole stack can be out of level but has to be flat in all directions. I guess it is just semantics. I like your idea with the ratchet straps, that is certainly better than concrete blocks. A buddy of mine has a dehumidification kiln and we don't use steam on the sapwood and it doesn't affect the color of the walnut or cherry other than the fact that you still have rich chocolates and purples and nearly white sapwood. I don't like steamed walnut or cherry either, makes the whole board bland.
Good thread. Lots of excellent information here. I've done some air-drying (mostly walnut) but I haven't done much recently. Always good to add a little extra thickness when you have the wood sawn (say: 1 1/8 for 4/4 stock) to make sure you get the finished dimension you need. I've also followed the rule of "one year per inch of thickness" but some of my lumber has been in my shop attic for 20 years now. Nice to know there's another Ann Arborite here at Knots.
Chip Tam (on the Old West Side)
I thought I was the only one wasting lumber sawing at 1 1/8". I told the last guy sawing my lumber to saw it at that dimension and you would have thought I was doing something sacrilegious. I agree with you completely. I leave a lot stuff 13/16" finished and that extra 1/8" in the rough has helped a lot. I actually live in Saline, but nobody knows where that is except you.
Terry
P.S.
I love those homes on the Old West Side. I restored a 120 year old farm house. Except for a timberframe, I wouldn't give you a nickel for most of the new stuff around AA.
Great advice, Terry. I, too, add 1/8" to every thickness. Mostly, I saw 5/4 (+1/8"), 4/4, and 8/4. That little extra goes a long way when dimensioning. I can get 7/8" for cabinet doors and face frames from my 4/4. Try that from the lumberyard, hah!!
Last year, I was in a pinch on a large project. I had about 2500 bf of cherry in the shed, all at around 14% MC. I needed 300 bf, and ordered from a guy I found on Woodweb for $3.00 per. Locally, 4/4 cherry goes for $5.65 per bf, so I took the chance. Well, when the truck arrived, it was all great quality, but the 4/4 was also all 15/16" thick. I was very glad I ordered half of it in 5/4, just to be safe, because I needed it.
Jeff
Terry
I think I need to re-read my post, because I thought I completely agreed with your assessment that the stack DID indeed need to be flat in those same three directions, in relation to each other. A little pitch is definately fine, especially if it is stored outside. Any rain that gets in will run off before soaking in too much. Those maple boards I showed had on 6 X 6 off by 1/4", and I didn't fix the problem until it was too late.
Jeff
Edit:
Ah, hah! Terry, I just reread my post, and I cornfused level with flat. So sorry. My stack was neither level nor flat, as a foundation board in the middle of the stack was lower than the rest. Sorry for the confusion.
Edited 3/5/2007 7:13 pm ET by JeffHeath
jburtch
Adding to what we've all written here, I believe that if you wish to use air dried wood, you absolutely need to have a reliable moisture meter. Without it, you are asking for trouble.
Saw away!
Jeff
jburtch
Those trees are really pretty easy to air dry.. I've never lost a single board from one of those woods in drying 50,000 bd.ft. I've stacked white oak without stickers and still not lost a board!
The worst that will happen is you'll get a little end checking.. If you seal the ends before much time passes you won't even lose that!
Others will tell you to put weights on top, but I can suggest that instead of weights use tie down straps.. put them directly over the stickers!
those cheap ratchiting straps are a real blessing over cinder blocks etc.. they won't release grit and other stuff to ruin your planner blades. plus the straps are an even pressure device which serve two functions.
First they help keep the boards flat and second they tell you when the wood is near dry..
You'll find that when you tighten them as tight as you can within a couple of weeks the boards will have dried enough to need additional tightening .
You'll tighten them ever few weeks at first and then monthly and when the straps no longer can be tightened for a couple of months the wood is near dry.. get your moisture meter out..
So far no body has mentioned anything about dipping /spraying for sap stain, other fungi and insects. Depends a lot on the wood species and whereabouts on the planet, but where I come from we dipped most species, especially pines and Jacaranda. Nobody came up with a suitable chemical to eliminate thieves (that he would admit to ).Philip Marcou
Thanks to all for the advice! I live in MI. I will be investing in a good moisture meter.
Any other advice will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks Jeff
Edited 3/5/2007 8:43 pm ET by jburtch
Why, Philip:
Are you suggesting I have critters!! lol. How are you, fine sir? I spray my stacks with Malathion, a very nice chemical that pretty much kills everything, including me! It does stain a bit, but I plane that off, anyway. I was a bit concerned about it's lingering effects and odor, but I've got several of my own pieces in my home, and the jointer and planer seem to remove all traces, as I can't smell even a trace of it on the finished furniture.
Excellent point, though, that we all forgot to mention. Bugs is bugs, regardless where you're from, and they're all hungry.
Jeff
Disclaimer: Not recommending the use of Malathion. Don't want any lawsuits.
Jeff
This product is now no longer available where I live because of its toxicity and the potential danger to pets and infants that may chew on the plant that was sprayed. I can understand the logic, but not the ban. Should I not have the right to spray my lumber pile if I wanted to? . I used it for years, twice a year, in my garden, to control pests, and that it did. It never crossed my mind to use it on lumber, but why not? JL
jl
Kids can still buy cigarettes, but we can't control garden pests. It makes no sense to me, either. The stuff is nasty, but so are alot of other things out there, and few work as well as malathion on bugs. I got lucky, but someday my luck will run out. A very good friend was the supervisor of grounds at a private scholastic academy here in Illinois (he has since moved to Wisconsin). He got me a couple of 5 gallon buckets of the stuff in concentrated form to use on my wood piles. I wear my respirator when I spray it, and keep the dog inside. Any critters in there have absolutely had it.
I've got one bucket left, but that should last me 7 or 8 years.
Jeff
Jeff
..as long as the stuff doesn't eat the bucket. I used to buy it in glass bottles; I always found that dangerous and strange until I decided, maybe incorrectly, that it is because the corrosive agents in the bug juice could not damage glass. JL
There is good information ( altho way more than you are asking for!) in the US Forest Service Forest Products Lab publications which are available online. Here is one reference: http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr118.pdf
You can also click on "publications" from home page & do search for air drying.
There is a lot of good advice in these responses to your questions. I would like to add a couple that I didn't see as I ran thru the thread.
If you are sticking 8' lumber your base, in addition to being flat and level will need a third support in the middle because the weight of the lumber will, because of the stickers, want to sag in the center.
Most wood I have dried, thousands of board feet, would only check (split) back to the first sticker when the ends are sealed, so don't make the mistake of placing the stickers far from the ends. I used latex paint. So the stickers should be as close to the ends as possible. I always sawed to 102" to allow room for the stickers and still have 96" dry. Pieces of metal or aluminum roofing are better than plywood to cover the stacks and won't deteriorate.
You can use a borate solution to eliminate bug infestation. I used it on the logs for a log home but I have never used anything on my air dried lumber. I should have because now some hardwood that has been drying under cover for over 10 years is attracting a lot of powder post beetles.
I also prefer working with air dried stock.
pins
PS: I have a band mill for sale in VA.
Yes, thin metal or aluminum works better than plywood for covering the stack. My stack covers are old lead printers plates. Each is about 8'x3'. The lead is about 1/16" thick and bends well. These particular plates were used to make cereal boxes and you can still make out the imprint of Kelloggs corn flakes on the metal.
Chip Tam
Meant to reply to ALL....I've read the entire thread and have a couple of questions. First, I have plans for a solar powered kiln. Is this a good solution to speeding up the drying process without losing the colors in the wood or should I abandoned that plan and stick to air drying? Second, how do you go about buying or acquiring the wood? I am assuming that keeping this much stock on hand is desirable due to the cost of the material. Are you folks buying logs and having them sawn, or just buying it before it goes into the kiln? I ask because I would like to do the same if it's economically feasible and worth the effort. In fact, I am planning a semi cross country trip with my flatbed trailer to buy a significant quantity of walnut, which is not a local product, just to get a good price. Lastly, assuming you are buying logs, where from (in general, not specific to where you do business)?Thanks,Jeff
Edited 3/6/2007 3:33 pm by jeff100
Jeff,
Jon Arno used to help with answers like yours.. I forget what temp changes the colors of wood from vibrant to bland but I do know the shorter the drying process the more bland the wood is..
My most vibrant wood all comes from the bottom or cooler parts of the wood pile while the wood near the top dries faster but produces more bland wood..
Northeastern Iowa southeastern Minnesota seems to have the lowest prices on Black walnut.. My sawmill Is Johnson Logging in Cannon Falls, however he just signed a contract with a buyer for the Chineese for all the black walnut at more than twice the market price so it's doubtfull you'll get any..
I buy prior to grading because I like getting all the really interesting character wood and paying a lower price besides.. That's where all the flame crotch, curly fiddleback etc, is..
Sure you get some clinkers, about 5% I figure but the great stuff more than makes up for it!
Thanks Frenchy. It's actually Claro Walnut I'm after, going to make a trip down the west coast looking for a reasonable deal on some. I don't begrudge a man for making a living, but I don't want to get gouged either. I'm sure I'll do OK, I've talked with some folks by phone, so I'm not heading out blind.By the way, some time back you posted some pics of your house. I was absolutely awestruck by your work. I am embarking on a similar project with a much different style house. If I can get even remotely close to what you've done, I will have wildly exceeded my hopes. Thanks for the pics and the inspiration!Jeff
Jeff,
I think you'll find that those of us who use the lumber for our own use (versus those who are doing it commercially) are great scroungers who keep their eyes open and get their wood from a variety of sources.
Back around 1980, a buddy of mine had a chain-saw mill. We got a number of logs as wind-falls after summer thunder storms. There was a wonderfull storm in August 1980 which produced several ash and black walnut. These were taken from city property after getting an OK from the city forestry service.
Like Frenchy, I've also acquired boards from a local saw mill (mine was a fairly large mill in northern Michigan). At this place, you need to take the boards right as they come off the saw balde. That means you're limited to whatever species (and quality) they're cutting that day. However, the price is so low that it's certainly worth the trip.
Finally, I've picked up lumber by word of mouth. A few years ago, a doctor had a large number of walnut trees taken down on his property in preparation to building his new house. He then had it sawn up at a local mill. He kept a dozen boards for his own use but wanted to sell the rest. I heard about it and the price was right so I bought it all. At the time, these boards were partially air-dried.
Regarding your question about building a small kiln, I'm not sure it's really worth it. I think you'll find the one or two years you need to wait for air-drying goes by pretty quickly.
Chip Tam
Jeff
I get all of my logs locally, and usually for free. By free, I mean, no cash. I make trades, or offer some of the wood in exchange for the whole tree.
My neighbor is a builder, and works on very expensive homes. He knows I build cabinets and furniture, so he'll come over every once in a while, and tell me of a large cherry, walnut or maple in the way of an addition. He'll cut them down, I'll go over with my bobcat and truck and haul it away, and I'll give him some lumber.
Another great source is talking to local tree cutters. They deal with these logs every day, and usually cut the stuff into firewood, or, GHAST, take it to the dump.
Speaking of which, my local township has a brush pile dumping center where everybody takes their branches, christmas tree's, etc.... Many of the newer tree guys without their own shredders or firewood services dump logs here all the time. The village shreds the stuff into bark. I check this place all the time. I've found 4 foot long, 25" wide cherry, walnut and maple logs here many, many times. Perfect for cabinetry and furniture. How often do you need a 10' board, anyway.
I agree with Tam, also, regarding the kiln. I don't see the need. I thought about building one, or buying a dehumidification kiln, but am glad I didn't. The initial wait of a year or two goes by very quickly, and once you've started, there's always something coming out of the woodshed when I'm putting some fresh sawn lumber back in. The cycle never ends, unless you grow tired of cheap, beautiful lumber with a little hard work, and wish to go back to paying $5 a bf for it!
Jeff
Good advice on the kiln, I think I'll take it. I know what you mean when you say time goes by quickly. Too quickly these days!!I've been scrounging for wood for some time now without much luck. I check the Craigs list on the internet, and keep my eyes and ears open, but it's been slim pickings. I need to get an arborist out to look at a maple on my property, plan to ask him/her what's possbile. Maybe there's more competition here where I live, but it's tough finding anything free for the taking. Lots of people still heat with wood stoves out here too, so again, it's almost impossible to find any logs for free. Maybe it's just a matter of time and I haven't been working at it long enough, we'll see....but thanks again.Jeff
jeff100
OK you'll need to work outside of the box..
Have you contacted woodmiser? they have a list of people with bandsaw mills in your area.. that's a good start.. then go to where ever the locals buy pallet wood from.. check your phone book and you''l find them.. You have to do a lot of listening and asking quetions. Won't hurt to arrive with a box of doughnuts..
Go find the guys who trim tress for a living as well. The county or state forest service is also a wonderful place with the right person in and the right timing..
Finally go find land developers, They take down trees like most of us eat popcorn. hands full at a time.. they're real glad to find someone who wants it because it's difficult to burn the trunks
Finally go find land developers, They take down trees like most of us eat popcorn. hands full at a time.. they're real glad to find someone who wants it because it's difficult to burn the trunks
Ya right!!!
frenchy,
I am a landowner with about 30 acres of forest. I used to give wood away, but people who wanted it (some were woodworkers) practically wanted it cut and loaded for them.
Take the trunks? You've got to be kidding!
Now everything I don't use in my shop goes in my neighbors' stoves.
Ajoe,
I said land developers not land owners.. Heck land owners have enough troubles.
I've know decent guys who were abused by "friends" who wanted firewood and were looking for fallin' trees, next thing they knew guys were darn near clear cutting their wood lots..
Sometimes it works out where mutual needs and mutual goal collide, But I sure wouldn't give carte Blanche to any chain saw weilding yahoo..
On the other hand Land developers need trees removed and pay other to do it for them.. If they can get someone trustworthy to do it they both win..
my bad...sorryguess i'm too sensitive.
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