I’m considering buying an Air filter for my shop to remove fine dust particles from the air that I breathe – the fine dust you see in a ray of sunlight after sanding or routing (MDF) etc.
I use a shopvacuum for general dust extraction and it adapts to all my powertools, but dust extraction is not always at it’s best ex. edge-routing fills the air with a lot of fine dust that the vacuum don’t get. In situations like that I normally wear a mask, but fine dust hangs in the air for a long time.
I consider a filter like this one http://www.axminster.co.uk/default.asp?part=AFS500 I guess filtering down to 1 micron is OK ?
Any one got a filter like this or similar ? What is your experience ? Are they any good ? are they worth the money ?
Doing woodworking safe is more than keeping your 10 fingers 🙂 Taking care of your general health is just as important.
Ole
…. I Love the smell of sawdust in the morning….
Replies
ORH,
I do not own one, I use a couple of box fans with filters...in series to remove the various sizes of particulate matter. However, they only help the situation, it seems to me the masks they feature here on the home page is the best to protect one's health.
I am amazed at how quickly the fan filters fill with dust. I have them set to go on with the lights and I often vac them. I'm concerned that the box your considering would clog quickly with dust.
I have good dust cllection and overarm pickup and still noticed an improvement using a micronic filter .Ensure that it gives adequate air change per hour.Do some research on this forum, there was a lot of posts by (I think) a guy Bill?who has done a lot of work on this subject.
Hey there F.G if you see this please jump in Can you remember the thread?
Hi Jake. I don't remember that particular thread, but the best article and review I've read on air cleaners over the last 3 years was in the October issue of American Woodworker. It gives a careful explanation of air cleaners and how they work, how they're different from dust collectors, what makes some better than others and tricks to improve their performance.
Their review tested "Real World CFM" -- they took six cfm readings on each machine, "starting with clean filters and once for each 16-gram loading of test dust." providing a final "Dirty Filter CFM" rating that was the last reading taken after all 80 grams of dust were run through the machine. They also provide an Average CFM, which is based on all six readings.
The JDS 750-ER Got Editors' Choice. Out of the 80 grams of dust, only .3 blew through the filters, and the Clean Filter CFM/Dirty Filter CFM = 664/514 , average CFM was 589.
Others were good performers too. I highly recommend this article to anyone who's shopping for an air cleaner.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks F.G.
Dear Madam;
American Woodworker does not have an archive of past articles, could you tell us if they found any differecnce between the dust collection systems that hook up directly to the machine versus the central filtration system similar to the JDS -750-ER.
larry
...love the smell of Jet A in the morning...
Larry, the Air Cleaner is a different animal from a Dust Collector, and they need to be used in conjunction with each other. Dust collectors are designed to hook up to the machine(s) you're using and collect large quantities of sawdust and shavings. Air cleaners are designed for "relatively clean, slow moving air." [AWW article] which they are intended to clean thoroughly.
Even with the best Dust Collector hooked up to a machine, you're going to get fine particles suspended in the air. You might not even be able to see them. The air cleaners change the air in your shop several time an hour, thereby sucking in all this suspended dust, capturing it in the filter(s) and exhausting very clean air for your lungs.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 11/11/2003 12:08:13 PM ET by forestgirl
Madam;
You have confirmed my suspions. I kinda thought for really good clean air you would need the two, a collector and a filter. Thanks for the input.
larry
...I love the smell of Jet fuel...
I've said this before and I'll say it one more time. Call me a pain in the as* if you will but it's a very important distinction. It's not the dust you can see that you have to worry about. 1 - 5 micron range is invisible and hangs in the air a long time. Therefore you cannot judge the effectiveness of an air cleaner or it's mounting position based on how dirty the filters get, how quickly they get dirty, or how much dust settles in the shop.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
ORH
If you're smart enough to recognize the threat, get one. I was shocked to see how dirty mine gets after a short period of time, figuring out why I was coughing all the time. But pay attention to wher and how you install it. Most people (like me) suspended it from the ceiling ot get it out of the way, but that doesn't get clean air down where you need it.
Take a look at Bill's Cyclone & Dust Collection Research.I think it will convince you
Just picked up a jet VS with remote and a timer at the woodshow for 179.00 good price couldnt pass it up. hasvent really tried it yet But I did take a air hose and blew out the shop and turned it on to see if it worked or not and I didnt have a lot of dust on my machinery. I installed it today keep ya posted
Darkworksite4:
Estamos ganando detrás el estado de Calif. Derrotando a un #### a la vez. DESEA VIVO LA REVOLUCIÓN
Ole,
Here is a link to a Knots that I put out a few months back - it gives detailed instructions on how to build your own air scrubber. I own a professional shop, and use a series of units throughout the work space. I've also enclosed a wiring schematic for the scrubbers described in the post.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=11626.1
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask!
Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
Edited 11/11/2003 10:37:56 PM ET by Jackie Chan
Dan, the link you provided won't work. Go to the thread you're referencing, right click the post number, for instance, the post number for this post you're reading is 14642.15, and click "copy shortcut." That's the link we need!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 11/11/2003 10:07:02 PM ET by forestgirl
Forest Girl,
Got it! I've corrected the link in my previous post accordingly. Thanks!Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
FG was right about the dc and the air filter being 2 different animals. I just bought a filter for use in my shop when its cooler and because Im tired of the dust lieing on the machinery. The dc that hooks up to the machine is primarily to collect the larger chips. The filter filters the air for the stuff you dont see like another person has already said. Its a joy to walk into the shop and see it actually clean now.
Darkworksite4:
Estamos ganando detrás el estado de Calif. Derrotando a un #### a la vez. DESEA VIVO LA REVOLUCIÓN
Sirip
Any suggestions on specific brand name dc's and af's? What are you using? Yesterday afternoon I had some spare time so I did some surfing and found a couple of you build your own cyclone and filter systems, I haven't had time to read the material but it looked informative. Thanks for the input.
larry
...to fly is heavenly to hover is to reach out and touch the face of God...
Both of ine are jet. But I think its mainly a personal preferance thing. Most any brand from a reputable manufacturer will do the same thing. Just check the CFM ratings for the machines as they are all different. Go for the highest CFM you can afford.
Darkworksite4:
Estamos ganando detrás el estado de Calif. Derrotando a un #### a la vez. DESEA VIVO LA REVOLUCIÓN
Sir;
Thank you for the input.
larry
...to fly is heavenly to hover is reach out and touch the face of God......
Larry, going for the highest listed CFM you can afford the may not give you the best air filter. Follow the link below to a bit of information from American Woodworker's AF review from October.
For example, the Jet AFS-1000B had a "Clean Filter" CFM of 674, and the JDS 750-ER had 664, so only 10 CMF difference, right? However, when they took the final reading, their "Dirt Filter CFM" (see other post for details), the JDS was still processing 514 CFM, and the Jet only 383. A tremendous difference, I would assume in filter design? That article also measured "blow-through" -- stuff that escaped the filter.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=14642.4forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I bought a Jet air cleaner about 2 years ago with a remote; it has a timer so you can turn it on and leave the shop, it runs for whatever time cycle (I think up to 4 hours or so).
I had considered getting one but was convinced when I chatted with another customer in Woodcraft one day. I asked him whether it really worked and he said he couldn't believe how often he had to change the filter. He had just switched from the paper disposable filters to the washable filter ( which I use). I find the shop totally free of dust (by my unscientific senses) after it has been running. I wouldn't do without it after having had one.
Ole,
Something to consider. Say you have a good DC (Woodsucker, Onieda, ect) with big cartridge filter pulling more than 800 cfm of shop air to collect the chips and dust from your machine, catching most of the dust and rescrubbing your air.
Or you have one of the better air filters pulling about 400 cfm and dust pumping into the shop air from your sander, tablrsaw, ect.
Since the best cartridge filters are the most effective us mere mortals can buy, it seems the best solution is a good DC, and by a bunch.
Just an observation.
Regards, Larry
Thanks for all your reply's and suggestions !
Can see I'm not the only one considering this problem.
Stantheman talked about how and where to install it. What are your opinion and experience ?? If it is supposed to remove the fine airborne dust won't it work as intended hanging from the ceiling ?? I imagined it mounted that way.
Ole.... I Love the smell of sawdust in the morning....
You cannot remove the dust by filtering it. All you do is remove the larger pieces and leave the smaller pieces.
There was a news article a month or so ago that said that sub-micron wood dust (what is left by air filters) is as bad or worse than the super-micron dust (which is removed).
Someone here published a link to some large scale woodshop tests. The results were: Source "chip" collection. Ventilation to pull the small dust outside and replace with clean air.
ORH,
I usually try not to add "me too" posts, but here's my 2 cents...
I have a dc and af. Both are Jet (dc is a small 650 cfm "mobile" unit and the af is the same one Ron T and Sailalex have). Difference since I got them is like night and day. The only time I don't run the dc is when I'm using my joiner or planer. The shavings are too large and clog the dc, so I use my shop vac with those (one of these days I'll spring for one of those trash can style two stage things). Whenever I'm in the shop, the af is always on low. I switch it to high when I'm actually running a machine and keep it there for 5-10 minutes after. It's mounted to the ceiling, and even on low, you can see the dust being "sucked" toward the unit. Of course, I have a respirator mask (not one of those cheesy "dust masks") which is fitted with replaceable cartridges, which I wear during milling operations. In the colder months, I crack the garage door and a window each an inch or so and try to do as many operations as I can by hand, making shavings instead of dust.
what, if any, other design considerations are covered in the american woodworker article? in particular, ease of changing/cleaning filters (which might make me more inclined to keep it free-flowing and thus less concerned about "dirty" filter capacity) and options like timers or? i'll probably be getting one (or would a pair of smaller units work better in a 36'x24'x9' space?- most ads seem to make reference to a 20x20x8 shop- about half the volume of mine) in the next year. gotta finish out the space first. thanks-
m
Hi Mitch, you get up way earlier than I do! The AWW article really educated me as to the reality behind the specs provided by companies, and the factors that make an efficient air filter. They provided measured information on:
Clean/Dirty filter CFM
Average CFM (5 readings, 1 after each 16-gram "loading" of dust)
Blow-through (amount that went through the filter)
Decibels
They also provided info on what type of filter (washable, disposable or both), remote control, variable speeds, and such. The "Comments" section covered miscellaneous info such as problems with gaskets, changing filters, types of pre-filters available and more.
To figure out how much CFM you need, you take the cubic feet of your space and divide by 6. This tells you the minimum CFM you need to change the air in your shop every 6 minutes. One of the good things about this review is that it gives you average CFM and you can use that "real world" number rather than the often-inflated CFM rating on the machine. Using your figures, it looks like you'd need 1296 CFM (wow). The closest machine in their test was the Jet AFS-1500 at 823 avg. CFM. Still not close though. Their best performer, the JDS750-ER has an avg. of 589 CFM. The Clean Filter CFM is 664. Two of those, with frequent cleanings, might do it. But it kinda looks like you need more capacity, eh?
The only machines they made a specific comment about re: filter changes were the Lee Valley AB500 -- the changes are not "tool-free" and the LV AB760 -- small screws easy to lose.
If you would like more details, drop me an email via the forum. PS: The "dogs" were the Shop Fox W1690, Penn State AC620 and two Woodtek machines. Very, very poor filtration.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 11/15/2003 1:19:22 PM ET by forestgirl
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