Replies

1. 
   oldusty | Jan 08, 2007 12:35am | #1

   I have used Alder for kitchens many times and with a clear finish is beautiful , when stained the darker it is the more blotchy it gets .

      While Alder is softer than Oak the holding properties for fasteners has never been a problem , remember after the glue dries in theory we can remove the fasteners .

      The one negative thing I have noticed is Alder does not hold a finish as well as harder woods do in my experience and when machined you get some fuzzy areas as well as broom grain , Alder does not machine as well as Maple or Oak imo .

        On the West coast the cost of Eastern Red Oak is about the same as Alder currently .                        good  luck   dusty

1. 
   ltm_ww | Jan 08, 2007 02:46am | #3

   Can you clarify what you mean when you say it doesn't hold a finish well? The cabinets will be getting two coats of pre-catalized lacquer, what have you used? Color will be natural so staining isn't an issue, my other option is maple but I'm trying to avoid including staining in the project.

1. 
   oldusty | Jan 08, 2007 04:35am | #4

       What I have noticed over the last 25 years or so is many projects of Oak for instance that were originally Lacquered often still look like the day they were finished , but on Alder as well as Pine pieces not only do they show many more dents , nicks , and scratches but in general the sheen and surface of the lacquer have not held up as well as the harder woods have .

            I don't think there is any chemical reason , rather just harder woods finish seem to age better or less actually imo .I also use pre cat lacquer , however until the pre cat became available we used nitro cell lac as was standard fare then .

        A kitchen takes a lot of wear and tear and abuse at times , it's a room that gets worked in . When you say you will put 2 coats of lac on , will that be in addition to sealer coats or will you self seal with your same top coat ? or simply use 2 coats of top coat , will you sand in between coats ?

                  dusty

1. 
   ltm_ww | Jan 08, 2007 05:28am | #5

   Generally I just use 2 coats of ML Campbells Magnalac, although if I use the Alder I may also add a layer of Seal Coat. Magnalac doesn't require a sealer, and actually bonds better than most vinyl sealers. Base coat of gloss, top coat will be dull, almost looks hand rubbed. I always lightly sand between coats. The product builds nicely since you put on 4-5 mils wet each coat. Safer to use than other NC lacquers also.

1. 
   oldusty | Jan 08, 2007 06:32am | #6

         Just out of curiosity , why is the material safer than others ?

             How would it come out by using the same sheen for all coats ?

             I usually shoot satin , but as you know the the more gloss the harder and more mar resistant the top coat is , so for Alder in the kitchen you may want to mix some gloss or semi gloss with the lower or dull sheen .       

        Red Birch veneer matches perfectly with clear coated Alder   

                      good  luck    dusty

2. 
   ltm_ww | Jan 08, 2007 11:03am | #7

   It's a European formula, developed with no ketones or aromatic solvents to harm the kidneys or liver. Doesn't contain anything on the HAP's list yet easily meets industry standards for performance. ML Campbell has a newer product (Magnamax instead of Magnalac) which they claim performs better; sort of a pre and post-catalized combo. The activator is mixed in when you purchase then has a shelf life of about 6 months. I haven't used it yet. I live a couple hundred miles from the nearest supplier so things may sit unused for a period of time.In a perfect world the base coats should always be gloss, very hard, good bonding and great clarity. Final coat is the desired sheen. Because you then only have the flatting agents in the top coat the finish appears to have a little more depth. Naturally you scuff sand lightly between coats. Since I use HVLP it's easy to switch sheens but I know most people don't. I like the lower sheen of the dull Magnalac, to me it looks richer with the added bonus of being a little more forgiving.You provided some good points about the finish on softer wood that I hadn't thought about. If I use maple I will probably need to stain. Guess I'll decide when I get to the mill and actually see the wood.

2. 
   forestgirl | Jan 08, 2007 01:05am | #2

   The blotchiness of a dark finish can be avoided by using a shellac washcoat, followed by a gel stain.  I made a display frame (like a very large shadowbox) about 3 years ago using alder, but finished to resemble dark walnut.  There was no blotching and it came out beautifully.  Definitely you want to do a complete practice run, though, before touching stain to product.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)