You’re lucky. Count your blessings.
In the future, it’d probably be smart to disconnect the power cord when you’re doing stuff like this. Some saws can be turned on by your leg if you press up against the front of the saw while you’re working on stuff. You wouldn’t change the blade with the saw plugged in, right? Same applies to other stuff where you’re working in a dangerous area. No power, no surprises.
John
Replies
Unplug the saw to adjust the blade height? C'mon, do you really do that? I've never unplugged it to change a blade and I know I'm not alone here.
I meant to say change the blade (not adjust it). When your fingers are around something that go from 0 to 1000s of revolustions a second you should worry a little. I do.
John
You may not be alone but you're in a definate minority.
I couldn't agree with you more strongly!
T2
I can't say I'd pull the plug just to change blade height unless it somehow involved getting my fingers in contact with the blade. But the time it takes to pull the plug for any "touchy" situations is time well spent.
Where children or curious neighbors are concerned, turn off the main power breakers to the entire shop when you are not there to supervise. Mine has a main "disconnect", much like that for an outdoor air conditioner unit, which goes with me when I leave the shop. Be safe, Ken
Ah, you all have been talking about my big dread! My first to be born is due in about 2.5 months and the idea of a little on in the shop is scary. But at the same time my dog in the shop doesn't bother me at all. Nor does not unpluging the saw when I change the height.
Ahem, as to my question (at last) what is a main disconnect? I'm clueless on this one- no one I know has AC! Is it a sub panel with a removeable circuit breaker handle? I would really like to know becuase I can rig it (probably) and my next best plan is a lock on each power cord and another on the garage door.
Thanks!
Any house that has central air conditioning has a compressor outside. Usually, these outdoor units have a "disconnect". I think these are 30 amp. But, disconnects can be had in various sizes. Check with an electrical supply house in your area.
This item should be wired between your meter and the main panel for your shop. If you simply installed circuit breakers, for your shop, in an existing panel this could be difficult to do. In my case I set a separate panel just for the shop. I came off one of the main panels with a large breaker which goes to the disconnect and then to the separate panel.
Just turning off the breakers should eliminate most potential trouble. Ken
Scott, fortunately nothing happened. My son's first table saw experience was about 2.5 years ago (he's 5 now) when he flipped the switch on my father's saw. Luckily there was nothing on it, but the noise and our reactions really made an impression. He's been in the shop with me since we bought this house and could probably ace a pop quiz on safety. Ultimately the shop is a dangerous place, but so is the bathroom, kitchen, etc. I'm kind of surprised your saw doesn't have a removable switch lock, but I guess the older ones don't. In the end, they're our children and want to spend time with us as much as we want to spend it with them, so at the risk of telling you how to raise your brood I'll tell you what I've done with my helper. I told him in very blunt terms how each machine can hurt him (these things don't give you a "boo-boo", they remove fingers), he's also very aware that ANY infraction of safety policy will result in expulsion from the shop. I know he understands because he's kicked me out for poor safety, and I had to go 'cause that's the rule. He also has safed equipment when his younger sister comes in. "Daddy, I took the yellow thing out of the table saw, but you need to unplug it because Rebecca's in here."
Power tools are unpredictable, as are kids. The thing is, in real terms accidents can happen anywhere. Falling off the couch can kill your child as easily as catching a kicked out piece of lumber from a saw. Assess the inherent risks and make up your own mind from there. I try to keep the heavy machinery to a minimum around the boy, but there's work to be done. Properly equipped and educated, I've nothing against it, but we do need to minimize the preventable risks. Openness and honesty - without the sugar coating we so often try to apply to avoid upsetting our kids- is the best way to raise young'uns.
That's my two cents, too bad it's in Canadian funds.
Scott! My opinion is your 21 month old son should NEVER be in the shop when your tools are powered up. You cannot possibly watch a 21 month old child while your concentrating on your wood working. Please keep him out of your shop or it could be his hand. Bob
Scott,
Your birth control thingy at the end of your message is funny but a little cooky. I know how you feel about nearly having lost a few digits. I recently had a close call where my push block slipped and almost all of my fingers came within a few millimeters of removal. This is the kind of thing that makes you stop for the day and sit down to reflect on what just happened. Lets face it, our hobby has risks.
Joey
I'm with SKIBBY on this one. That's the first thing I thought of after I read your story. The shop with all its equipement is no place for tots. I had little toddler boys when I had a home woodshop and I would march them right out whenever they came down to 'Daddy's Barn'. If I had to look after them, I would simply lock up shop and just do that. No amount of deadlines or money lost is worth the heartache. They will eventually reach an age (all too soon) when you will have the joys of showing them in a safe way how to hammer a nail, hand saw a board, or shave a straight line with your grandfathers old Bailey. Then one day (all too soon), they will be straddling the ridge beam barking down the numbers to you while you cut pitch, the bird's mouth and the cripplers. Words cannot do that experience justice. I can't wait ( and I hope it's not too soon) to see the look on my grandson's or grand daughter's face when they first see that fine ribbon leap off the bench plane. Teach your kids well. You're a lucky person to be able to have kids, woodworking skills, and a shop to boot. Enjoy.
Wow a child that young out in a shop with machines running, doesn't sound like a good mix to me! It's kind of funny just this afternoon was thinking of my grand son who is three, the next time he comes I should close up the shop even if the Power has been removed from the building outlets. Just the inquisitive young mind trying to touch a blade or try to spin one with their finger could slice a big nasty cut in their small body parts! I don't get to see him very often as far away as they live, but it would only take one careless accident to have his folks not want him around here. Since he seems to have a real interest in tools and watching the trades people work, I would sure like to teach him about them & the corect way to use them once he gets old enough. Having a child in a shop with saws and other machines going is just not a smart idea!
Be Safe....Marsh
Not to bang on the same drum but....
I agree with everybody about no toddlers in the shop.....
another angle: have you considered the possable hearing damage to very young ears?
Christmas is coming..... should I buy the wife that new tablesaw ....hmmmm
Time to rig easy to use lock out covers for your tools.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Scott,
Immediately felt that lump in the throat with your story. If this is your first child your constantly discovering new ways they can destroy themselves throughout the house...it's scary as hell. By the third child your ready to give up....you'll begin to understand what faith is all about....cause you ain't in control..
I'm not sure you can win this one. Banning the child from the shop while you disappear for hours on end....not a great solution. On the other hand, as was mentioned, you can't work with power tools with him in the shop....or have him walk in on you while your in the middle of a cut. Sounds to me its time to use the power late at night..disconnect it..and hand tools during his waking hours...
Scott,
Glad to hear nothing bad happened. having little ones around is great, mine are all grown up, but even to this day I try to unplug most things if possible.
One simply needs to be mindful and try to develop some prevention options.
Good luck and happy holidays to you and yours
Spitfire
o
I'm with the others. Kids don't belong in the shop with the power on. With our first son I had him in the shop watching. I wanted him to learn wood working and have that parent contact. He always stayed out of the way. But with time I realized it was wrong. It does not take much for them to do something wrong and it take no time for something to go wrong with what you are doing. I realized he was sitting at just the right height so that if a board kickbacked to the side just a bit he would be hit in the head. There is nothing like the personal contact when doing stuf with the kids but not when there is power on in the shop.
Scott
Ditto Skibby! I have instructed my family if they hear a power tool running, not to enter the shop till it is no longer running. The sign outside the shop entrance states the same thing and the neighbors have been alerted to it. Several WW's in the hood, so we understand the nature of what can happen and practice what we preach.
Regards...
sarge..jt
Proud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Scott, I can completely understand. No bashing here. My kids (now 4 and 7) have spent almost their whole lives in my shop with me. I would arrange my days so that I would try to machine at nap and night time and do glue ups and assembly during the day. They have their own work bench and basic tools and work on their own "projects" with off cuts. They are great "helpers" and I probably spend nearly as much time helping them as I do working. I also will openly admit that I never unplug my saw while adjusting the height. There is no way I am going to do that, but I use a stick to rotate the blade while checking the height.
I know that many think that may not be smart to have the kids in the shop, but I would rather they learn to respect the shop and not sneak around to fill a curiosity later. I look at it the same way that I do with guns. They both have their own air rifles in the safe and have learned to shoot and are learning safe handeling under supervision. They know what they are for and what can happen if not used correctly.
Thank goodness for this forum!! Thanks to Scott's post this particular safety issue wouldn't have gotten so much attention.
Scott, your post said just enough to get us all going! Better watch out, before you know it that little guy will be teaching you a few things. Good luck. Ken
Edited 12/19/2003 9:36:31 PM ET by Ken's Shop
Scott,
Glad everything is okay. I appreciate anyone who posts a story about safety, including near misses or mere possibilities. Just makes us all think, which is how I took your intent. One thing which always gives me shudders is the thought that some day my son will skate by on the driveway when I'm working inside with the big door open. A freak kickback occurs which sends an "arrow" his direction. I don't know why the thought enters my mind, but it sometimes does. Maybe it's just concern over what is happening behind my back. Anyway, no judgements here; I really "get" how things can happen. Just appreciation for the food for thought.
Cheers,
Greg
ooo kaaaayyyy.....????
Any time my pinkies are around the blade on my table saw, you bet the thing is unplugged. Checking with a square, checking the height, not to mention changing the blade, LOL. This goes for my other stuff, too. We ain't star fish, and we're only bequeathed ten digits... Whenever I leave the saw either the blade is down, or the cord is unplugged.
Yup, it takes a second to unplug the cord, and another to plug it back in.
where is the original post??
Immediately beneath this reply click on 1-10, that will show you the original post.
Edited 12/21/2003 9:22:13 AM ET by Ken's Shop
No, it won't. The original post is gone, as are all the other messages Scott posted to this thread.
U D
In reference to the deleted post.. Any clue???
sarge..jtProud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I probably shouldn't speculate, because I don't remember the details in the deleted messages, but the impression I got was the point he was trying to make was, unplug the saw, and he felt like people were dumping on him for letting the kid in the shop. And when he tried to explain that he felt perfectly comfortable having the kid in the shop while he was doing what he was doing just then, as long as he remembered to unplug the saw the next time, people just ignored what he was saying and kept dumping on him for having the kid in the shop. But I could be wrong.
Uncle Dunc,
Pretty sound speculation, I'd bet. Scott is a good guy and seems to have just been trying to share. Sometimes it's futile to try and make your point when a thread morphs into something else. I just like to hear any safety report because it makes me think. Many heads are better than one.
Cheers,
Greg
Dunc & Greg
Thanks... I kind of got the same impression also. It was a good safety point and worth talking about. I'm sorry it came to that if indeed that's what happened. I agree with Greg that Scott is a good guy and know-ledgeable. I have learned from his post.
Scott:
If you read this, get back on that computer and just tell all of us to kiss your *arse* and pay attention to what you said. I really think this is somewhat of a mis-understanding. If you don't, I'm going to return all my Veritas planes to Lee-Valley for a refund and that could cause a major economic crisis for Canada.
Regards...
sarge..jtProud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Sarge my s#!t tolerance level has been a little on the low side the last few days and I didn’t feel like I needed to hear any more form the one thing that relaxes me in life. I just arrested and charged two good friends the other day and as a result they lost there jobs because of security issues. Also one of my good buddies just had a bad bleed in his brain and they are not giving him much of a chance to live through the next round of surgery, it was only the other day we were laughing at an up coming court case we worked on together. Another buddy just had a bad heart attack and has retired as a result of it. And to make things worse my in-laws just showed up for Christmas.
Anyway in my mind I would take back those Vertias planes and buy LN instead have used both and it is a personal thing.
As for my post I deleted here it is again.
Me and my little fellow had been spending an afternoon in the work shop like we usually do when my wife is out. When she came home she took him out so that I could go back to running my power tools (that I never do when he is around) so I could finish a project I am working on. As I was adjusting the blade height to make some ship lap joints my wife instructed my little fellow to bring me his plastic hammer too so I could put it away in his tool box for next time he is out in the shop with me. When he came over to me at the table saw he immediately tried to start the saw by pressing the start button. I think the only thing that saved me is that the button was just high enough that he never had the strength to press it because he was straining the reach it. I never unplug my tools when making height adjustments but I always do when changing cutter wether it be blades, knives or bits. This has not been a life altering moment that will make me change my ways when it comes to setting blade height nor will it make any difference about having kids in the shop.Scott C. Frankland
Scott's WOODWORKING Website"This all could have been prevented if their parents had just used birth control"
Scott,
Sounds as if you've had a full serving. It'll all pass. Also sounds as if we're professional cousins. Prosecutor. Sex crimes. A diet of nothing else for the last five years. There is nothing that feels, sounds or smells better than a full length shaving after some days. I appreciate your original idea and agree with our friend Sarge about the arse part. And you didn't have to repost it either. Still, I think the other posters didn't mean anything hostile. Just talk of safety which took a turn. Hard to halt a thing which begins to take on a life of its own. I pretty much think no safety discussion is a bad one. Take it easy and we'll see you around the playground.
Cheers,
Greg
Scott
No need to explain. I knew you well enough to know something was bugging you as I've never seen you upset. Trust me, I know life is full of twist and turns. They seem to come in groupings too. Kind of like the wacko's being more prevalent on a full moon. As you or anyone that has worked with the public, the full moon thing isn't a myth.
I think Greg nailed it with nobody meant to rag you. When we see a post as yours, we just go auto with these keys trying to contribute. I believe it was just a mis-understanding and you were hit at a rather sensitive time. And yeah, we do jump the track sometimes.
I'm not taking the Veritas's back. I have the medium shoulder and am very satisfied. I have the #4 1/2 and it gets the job done. Love to have the LN's, but I have teen-agers. Just wait, you'll get the drift in a just a short few years. And the time flys with them, so spend as much time as possible with them as you can. And from your post, I know you do.
My suggestion is we all forget this thread and move to another one. Tomorrow is a new day.
Regards...
sarge..jt
Proud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Scott, thanks for sharing your story. It will help me pay more attention.
My brother-in-law just lost 4 fingers (everything but the pinkie) off his left hand in a tblsaw accident.
Let's celebrate together that your story was "almost"!
dave
Dave I seen a guy get his wedding ring caught in a table saw blade and when I married I told my wife to save her money as I would never wear one. That I have to say scared me.Scott C. Frankland
Scott's WOODWORKING Website"This all could have been prevented if their parents had just used birth control"
Wedding ring stories . . . My junior high shop teacher had no ring finger cause the ring got caught on a rope binding hook when he jumped off a flatbed truck.
Ouch!
My little boy goes in my shop all the time. He is six and has a little bench and a few hand tools. I don't let him use powertools or stay in there if I am milling much wood. He knows where to stand if the tools are on and NEVER to talk to me or walk up to me. The other day he crosscut a piece of 3/4 walnut with a handsaw and was fairly close to the line. He can scribe a line and use a square, use an egg beater drill, and is just learning to use a block plane and counterpunch. He knows never to go into the shop or use tools when I am not around. He gets run out if it is dusty or there are toxic fumes or I am about to do something where I can't afford to screw up.
He is not really a normal kid. He plays violin and is very gifted There are probably lots of kids who shouldn't be trusted to do these things
When he was much younger, I'd mill up the pieces for a birdhouse or some other small job when he was not in the shop, and then invite him in. He'd sit on the bench and smear around some glue and bang some brads or paint things. I think anybody could do this with a very small kid, but not without putting everything else aside. Big fun!
Frank
Frank, that is cool.
In my day job I hire a lot of mechanical engineers. Unlike your son, most candidates grow up without any involvement with the natural world. I want the kids that grew up in a junkyard or strapped lawnmower motors to their bikes or messed around blowing up dog houses . . . you get the idea. Computer skills are great but by themselves without any practical experience of the world so what
You are giving your son a precious gift. I applaud both the care and measured risk you are taking with him.
dave
Dave,
Thanks. I grew up in humble means and the push was always to do the best you can with what you've got and solve your problems with your head as much as possible. It was a good lesson.
Frank
WOW! All of his replies are gone too!
I suppose he did get more than he bargained for. I didn't admonish him for having the child in the shop but you'd think I climbed all over him about it in his response to me.
I tried to lighten it up by saying it was a very good subject which highlighted the need for all of us to be safe and look out for others while in our shop.
Edited 12/21/2003 4:45:01 PM ET by Ken's Shop
John, you make a good point about accidentally starting a tablesaw by pressing up against the switch.
There's been a great deal of "peeing on" Ridgid over quality issues on this forum. I have to say, however, that my Ridgid contractor's saw has a switch that is pulled on; pressing it will shut it off or not start it if it is off. A great feature, IMO.
BTW, feel free to resume the urine flow; Ridgid is now going to manufacture its ww. tools in China, and change its lifetime warranty to 3 years.
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