Just refused to order $200 worth of bits/clamps/etc because of their new policies. Remember when orders over $25 were shipped free. No longer. For my planned $200 order, the shipping neared $20.
Looked up the 1-800-201-7575 customer service number. Twice the answerer disconnected me. And for once, I was being very nice 🙂
Third time I finally talked to a supervisor. She explained that they are strictly an internet company and essentially are instructed to refuse to talk on the phone to “customers”. I stated that I was unhappy about no phone number, the inability to “talk” to anyone, the new shipping costs, and the inability to order by phone. Essentially, she said if I did not like it, tough! Also, I object to the outsourcing to the Philippines Amazon’s lack of customer service!
Sooooooo, I’m boycotting Amazon.com. Why give my money to someone who does not care about my business? I ordered through another dealer, by phone, and it was a pleasant experience. Cost was about the same. The people such as LV, Woodcraft, etc will now get more business. I realize this won’t get the same attention such as Festool or Grizzly threads, but I had to rant.
If you dislike the new Amazon and their policies, then join me and boycott Amazon and shop elsewhere.
Thanks to everyone who chooses to support my boycott request.
WOW, now I feel better!
Replies
I sympathise but I am not surprised. I once ordered a micro pinner and 3 pkgs of pins from them. I received it in 2 shipments, over 3 days. They had to loose money on that. I recommend Mike's Tools for those that want real service and you get to talk to Mike just about every time you call.
http://www.mikestools.com/
John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
Thanks, I will bookmark the site.
A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
Elcoholic mentioned Mike's Tools. What a great company. One Thursday afternoon I was sitting at my desk thinking about a project coming up on Saturday that I needed a special tool for. I called Mike about 3:30 and placed the order. It arrived the next morning at 11:00. Easily my best online customer service experience, and I do a lot of shopping that way.
Sorry your experience was a bad one. I had read some news reports that the free shipping was starting to fade when the fuel prices started climbing sharply. I have bought quite a bit over the years from amazon and liked the free shipping. When you add shipping costs into the mix then a lot of the advantage of not paying sales tax goes out the window. I always try to by local unless the gap was significant. Back before the holidays they offered me a "trial" memebership in something that gave me free 2nd day air for 90 days. Any order could automaticall upgraded to 2nd day air. At the end of the 90 days, if I did not cancel the trial, I would be billed 79.00 for a years membership. They said don't worry you will get serveral notices prior to the deadline. I did use it several times over the holidays and I'll admit it was nice, but I don't buy enough over a year to justify it. To make a long story short, I did not get any notices, but I had put a reminder in my calendar to cancel the thing. I made it with a days notice. What are you going to do! Take care.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
I have bought literally thousands of dollars of merchandise from Amazon. They may not miss my failure to buy from them again, but if a lot of others stop buying from them, mayber they will get the message. Nah!
They are now on the same list with Citgo and Chavaz of Venzuela and Mobil/Exxon.
If no one buys from Citgo or Mobil/Exxon, what do you think will happen to the price of gas. Mobil will have to drop the price or go broke and then the other gas companies will have to reduce their price to be competitive.
It is called the free marketplace!
A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
House, "THE BOOK KEEPERS (think that they) WIN AGAIN! What they don't understand is that while they convinced the CEO and the board of directors that the road to higher profits was their way. THEY NEVER ASKED US. SEE YA. ZERO DOLLARS FROM ME.
Now the sad part of the story is that when the day of reckoning comes it is the accountants that tell the lies about the failure of the marketing folks or brand managers to provide the sales $$$$.
Accountants and lawyers should be kept in their pens. They know the price of everything and the value of nothing. Other than the fast dollar (mainly the lawyers) at the price of others pain or future sales. AND THEN THEY LEAVE WITH THEIR GOLD. Paddy.
BTW. Just look at the sale of Record to Irwin and it's eradication at the hands of Newel Rubbermaid who is the parent of that whole mess. I am sure that they made a few bucks selling Record's soul to the poor performing Mfgs in India that we will not buy. So both lost, India and us but Rubbermaid gained cash THIS YEAR PERHAPS NOT NEXT YEAR. Sorry for the rant , pfh
The lesson is to support those who support you! Not the other way around. It is my money and I'll spend it where I want to spend it! :-)
A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
Tree, I am your boat and you are correct , they(and some other very bad actors) will not see a dime of my money and I will tell everyone who will listen. Some day (perhaps past us) they will get the message. Paddy
Edited 1/24/2007 10:18 pm ET by PADDYDAHAT
Since I am in the hardware business I can provide the following.......
Newel Rubbermaid is near death. Joey Galli (former CEO) destroyed the Irwin business. But remember, Irwin's bread is buttered by contractors not fine woodworkers. They could give a rat's arse about our business. It's just too small a market to move the needle. the contractor business is what they are after....people who gobble up --use and abuse ---throw the cheap #### products out and buy them again. That's were the money is. Irwin does not want to offer a quality product that will last for years. The purchase incidence needs to be high for them to grow revenue. I could give a disserertation on this but it's old news.
Bottom line-- Stop looking for Irwin for quality product. WE all know the new quality hand tools come from Lee Valley and Lie-Nielson. Those are the cats that are making a buck on us.
Dom, thanks for the reply, it's the loss of quality tools that bothers me the most. Yes, the bookeepers et al. stole the money and made a particular years balance sheet look good. Their stock holders made bucks and their acquired companies lost employees, the quality and selection of tools disapeared(hansen, Record,vice grip etc. etc. and many more) to what end? The quick big bucks that their officers get and then bail out when the sh!t hits the fan.
It is the wall sreet and commodies market guys that are driving the US manufacturers and oil into the toilet as far as we are concerned so that they can make BILLIONS in bonus salary awards at year end . They literally control those markets. They shouldn't be so proud of the numbers that they announced for year end 2006. They screwed the corporations and us for their personal gain. AND THEY DON'T CARE. Peace to us all, Paddy
ps. I am quite pleased to leave some of my bucks with Lee Valley and others that give me value for the bucks. pfh.
Hmmmmm -- I think the factor you're overlooking is consumers' penchant for low prices -- and their willingness to forego quality for that lower price.In the world of tools, fortunately, we can buy at any price level -- from cheap and shoddy to elegant and high quality.Sold your house yet? ********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
NW, no, but I expect to have it done on the inside and sold before school starts in the fall. The prices are still good on these smaller houses and as the big bucks come back it will be a good market for me.
I will go down in mid March to get the spring land chores done and get a dumpster up here when I return. All the best, Paddy
Best of luck with the house. Let's hope the market perks up when spring arrives.........********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
81,
I am neither for nor against Amazon. Whenever I have a purchase to make, I check out the various sources, and buy from the one that gives me the best deal (in my estimation). The more sources that are out there, the more the competition, and thus the better for ME.
Amazon is in business to make money. They increased their business by "giving" ""Free"" shipping. However, you know that nothing in life is "Free". It comes out of something. It came out of their potential profits for a long time. Now that they have built up a clientele, they are doing away with the "free" shipping. This is the only way they can eventually make a profit and thus stay in business, which is why they exist.
Now they certainly will disappoint people who have not been paying for shipping. My understanding is that I am eternally grateful to Amazon for giving me the shipping bargain for as long as it lasted. Why would anyone get angry at a company that gave them a great deal for a long time? I suggest that you be thankful for the free shipping in the past. Now it is up to you to search out the best deal under the new system. If that means that Amazon is not the best deal, then buy from someone else. BUT whatever you do, why cut off your nose to spite your face? It may be that Amazon can still offer lower prices on things that others can because of the volume of business that they do. If that is the case, isn't it your best interest to buy from them -- not because you love them, but merely because it is the best deal?
All systems change. Sears changed. For two decades, I bought all of my woodworking stuff from Sears. They had knowledgeable sales people and good prices, and the quality was sufficient for me at the time. Now I rarely go to Sears because they do not have any knowledgeable folks in the tool department, and because I can get better deals on better quality at other places. BUT I am still appreciative for the decades of great service and bargains that I got at Sears. Who knows? Maybe they'll change back. Maybe Amazon will find that they need to reinstitute the free shipping?
I am close to retirement. You are already there. I have noticed that many of my retired buddies share a similar attitude with you -- they really get upset when something in their life changes, and they make angry calls and they make tirades, and they promise never to shop there again. My mother, before she died, had a list of restaurants that she would never eat at again. Near the end, she would never go back to a restaurant that she ate at. She found something to get angry at in every one. Actually, at that time, it was no fun to take her to a restaurant. But she was my mother, so we listened to her rants, and told her we love her. Now we miss her. Thinking back on it, ranting had become her hobby. She actually got very good at it. I am not sure what caused her to do it, but I think she enjoyed being the center of attention.
It takes a lot of energy to get angry. You must have been angry if two reps hung up on you at Amazon. Why get mad at those reps? They are merely making minimum wage and trying to get by in life. They probably feel worse about Amazon than you do. I couldn't work at a place like that because if someone called up and gave me a hard time, my initial tendency would be to give them hell like they have never gotten it before. But then the company would be sued, and I'd be fired, and everyone would be worse off.
I hope that I have given you some reason to rethink your anti-Amazon position. I doubt that I could say anything to change your mind. You seemed to me to be beyond that. Your mind seemed to be made up. But you put your thoughts out there for a response. My response is not like the others. I hope you find it useful. I SINCERELY hope that it does not cause you to take a stand and "BOYCOTT 9619" in the future. That wouldn't be good for either of us.
I believe that if someone comes at you with intent to do bodily harm, you should take care of business. However if a company doubles the price of their product, or if someone calls you a name, or if you get a flat tire, etc. it's best not to get angry. If you get frustrated, then go down to the workshop and plane a board. You'll work off your frustration, lose weight, gain muscle tone, and be a better person.
Have fun.
Indeed, have a good life.
Never ever get angry. Even if someone attacks you. Take care of business, but anger will just cloud your judgement.
Enjoy,
Mel
PS - "A better life through woodwork".
PPS - Thinking about it, I may have just made an "anti-rant" rant. Is that self contradictory? What difference does it make? No one pays much attention to rants, much less rants that are anti-rant. See, Knots is a great place. It lets you let off steam, even when you didn't have any steam to release. Maybe it was a "pseudo release" or a "quasi release". Wow, there are so many existential questions that I have to ponder! I guess that I'll go down and plane a board and ponder these deep philosophical points that are not worth thinking about except in that they provide self generated puzzles for a person who likes to solve puzzles. So if I said all of this in a forest, but there was no one there to listen, would it make any less difference? By the way, if you are still reading this, then you need to get a life and do something useful. Not everything on Knots is worth reading. My message is proof positive of that. :-)
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel.Thank you for your post, which, as the Keebler Elves say, was uncommonly good. Food for thought, especially the part about your mother. Keep on sharing your insights.Bob
Woodmaster,
Wow. I never expected anyone to even read my post. I certainly didn't expect any good words in return. So thank you. I am very glad you enjoyed it. Everything I said about my mother is true. It was sad to watch her decline, and finally pass away. I remember when I was young. She was as positive and vibrant ####mother as you can imagine. She wanted her kids to learn everything and to do well. She focussed on "Can do." But in her final five years, as her health problems increased, she got more and more negative about just about everything. I even tried talking to her about it, in a very nice way. The fact that I tried to talk to her about her behavior made her angry. But then again. It changed nothing. I guess I am glad I tried. Sometimes, failure is an option. But in working with Mom in her last years, I learned many things. One: getting angry because another person or a company or a restaurant is not acting reasonably is USELESS, and makes things worse. It is easier to think clearly when one's brain is not addled with fire and brimstone. A second thing I learned is: nothing I say will ever have much of an effect on other people, ESPECIALLY if they are angry. I know my limitations. There is one great lesson from Mom that she taught me when we were all a lot younger. She said, "Never argue with a fool. Bystanders can't tell which is which." Have fun, and thank you very much for your nice response.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Excellent post as more people should have our attitude.
I was on Amazon.com this morning and free shipping was still offered.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
Jerry,
Thank you for letting me know that there are now two others who share this attitude.Also, you have the best tag line on Knots. It is ABSOLUTELY the secret to knowing what life is all about.
Enjoy,
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
More words of wisdom from the great State of Virginia! Thanks for an interesting and thought-provoking post.
I especially enjoyed the "PPS."
Now I'll just wait for the Jolly Biscuiteer (if you see this Limey bloke wit a patch over 'is eye, pilotin' a wrecker's boat wit a black flag that has a white outline of a Lamello biscuit joiner and some Juropian bickies on it, RUUUUUUN!!!!) to jump in with more dialectical words of wisdom from across the pond.....
Anyway, thanks for an entertaining and thoughtfully contrarian reply to the OP's OP.Beste Wünschen auf ein glückliches und wohlbehaltenes Neues Jahr!
Tschüß!
Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!
James
James,
Good to hear from you.
I thought of you the other day. I am into chip carving, and am trying to learn how the heavy duty chip carving was done in Germany and Switzerland on the outside of buildings and on BIG furniture. I bought a book by Christian Rubi called "Das Kerbschnitzen". The pictures are great. The text is in German. My guess is that you could zip through it in a flash. It will take me MUCH longer, but I am slogging my way through it. An initial perusal of the book indicates that it uses a technique similar to the popular books Wayne Barton. Thus, the specialized vocabulary (the buzz words) should be fairly easy. He does have one chapter on "the old way", but it doesn't get into the old techniques and tools as much as I wanted. The good thing about that is: I still have something left to search for. :-)I keep finding new ways to spend the time that I wont really have until after I retire. I have to find a way to move that up. If I come up with some phrases in that book which contain no words that exist in my trusty Langenscheidt, I will send the phrase to you.Have fun.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
I was looking at that book after reading your previous post; looks like a good book.
For any words/phrases you have trouble with and send me, I'll do my best to give you an accurate translation. (This could be fun, as I suspect that it is written in Schweizerdeutsch..... Long ago, I helped a friend of mine with proofing his translation of Friedrich Dürrenmatt's Der Richter und Sein Henker into English; it was fun, and taught me a lot about translating.)
Retirement, I'm sure, will come before you know it; in the meantime, it's good to have at least some plans for what you want to do when you get there. But, I suspect that you may find retirement not necessarily all that it's built up to be... and life's little necessities still intrude and need to be taken care of, so you may find that you don't have as much "fun" time as you think you might....something that I'm sure that you have already considered.
Anyway, I hope that the carving is coming along well.Beste Wünschen auf ein glückliches und wohlbehaltenes Neues Jahr!
Tschüß!
Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!
James
Very much enjoyed your post! I too am thankful for the things I have purchased at a good price from Amazon and got free shipping to boot. I thought everyone knew it was not a sustainable business model and would have to end eventually. I've noticed over the last year that items that come from Amazon are still eligible for the free shipping while those shipped from their trading partners are not.
Your mother seems to have imparted wisdom to you inadvertantly as well as intentionally. It is to both of your credit that you have made such good use of it.
------------------------------------
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. -- Herbert Spencer (1891)
9619,
Thanks for the thought provoking post. You made some very good points. Yes, I was angry when I posted and you are right -- Knots is a good place to let off steam. However, it also serves to let others know your experiences so they can, if they choose, avoid a similar unfortunate encounter. I agree with your Sears comment. I too have the same experience. Earlier someone said it is the fault of the bean counters and management. (My words) I suspect they are right. Do you think any of them read Knots?
Having rethought and chewed on this old bone for a day, you are correct about much of what you said. However, here is a true story. For many years, I worked with a New York Bronx Italian. When he was unhappy about a situation, he would "let it all out!" But he never stayed angry. Within minutes, he was calm, cool and collected. He once explained to me, it was better to let it out, than to keep it in and die of stress related diseases. Also, he claimed that that was just the Italian way. :-)
Now, I'm afraid that in today's environment, that might get you shot, but there is something to be said about letting others know of your displeasure. I have gained much insight on many companies, both good and bad, on Knots. On the other hand, your are correct. The people to whom I talked are not the highest paid, highest educated employees. Just just are doing their job as best they can. And I did treat them with utmost respect and did not take out any frustrations with them -- just on Knots.
Again, thanks again for your insights. Probably one of the better posts I've read on Knots that did not directly relate to woodworking.
81treehouse
PS: Almost retired in VA. Like the people. Just costs too much for what we wanted!
A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
81,
Thank you very much for your response. Thanks for the info on your Italian friend. Anch'io sono Italiano! = I also am Italian. My father is Leo. My mother's name was Lena. I have a cousin named Vinnie (no joke). Best of luck with your retirement, with your woodworking, and with you acquisition of woodworking tools. Ciao, (bye)
A presto, (talk to you again soon)
Il tuo amico (your friend)
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Quote from 34027.18 "Yes, I was angry when I posted and you are right -- Knots is a good place to let off steam. However, it also serves to let others know your experiences so they can, if they choose, avoid a similar unfortunate encounter. " If you are of retitement age you may remember this from Fess Parker playing Davy Crockett: "Be sure you are right, then go ahead."You are not only angry - you are wrong. Amazon free shipping is the same as its always been.
<<You are not only angry - you are wrong. Amazon free shipping is the same as its always been.>>
Thanks for such a pleasant reply. If you have been a user since "day one" as I have been, then you will remember when ALL orders over $25 were without shipping charges except for items that required freight charges! And you could order by phone.
Before you blatantly state someone is wrong, you should be sure of your facts!
Have a nice day.
A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
Back at day one did Amazon have "partner" stores or did everything they sold ship out of Amazons warehouse?------------------------------------
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. -- Herbert Spencer (1891)
Don't know. Do know that they used to send me a "Tool Crib" catalog in addition to their internet site.
A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
that was only for a short while after they bought tool Crib. They discontinued the catalog in pretty short order.
I may be out of touch with today's world, but I try not to buy online. If at all possible I patronize the local stores. I like having them in business, being able to talk to them about the item and getting what help they can give, and being able to get it when I need it. I like having the town filled with profitable businesses. I see the little extra that it might cost as a small tax for these advantages. Since the quantities of anything I buy are relatively small I figure that in the overall scheme of things, it doesn't matter for a few pennies more or less. Often I find that the final cost, when shipping etc. if calculated in, the prices are usually quite close. Life is much too short to sweat the small stuff.
Edited 1/25/2007 3:32 pm ET by dherzig
dherzig,
It would be nice to be able to shop locally. BR "before retirement :-)" in Kansas City, that was an option. Now the nearest woodworking stores I have found are Memphis (3 hrs), Dallas (6 hrs), KC (6 hrs), and Tulsa (?).
So now, most shopping except for big box stores or the local hardware store (very small) is either catalog or on line. Oh yeah, once a year the Woodworker's show in Dallas or KC.
Notice that Sears (2 hrs) was not mentioned <grin>
Since you have not entered any profile information (general location), I assume you must be near a large city. That might be a blessing and then again, I love my rural retirement area -- even if it sometimes hinders the availability of "supplies" and knowledge.
Work safe!
A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
If you're looking for Amazon alternatives, I can give you a flock of links for online tool sources that have been highly recommended by various folks at Breaktime. You just won't find the specialty items carried by Rockler, Woodcraft, Lee Valley, et al.My complaint about Amazon is that they have made tool buying (from them) much more confusing and complicated than it used to be.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Agreed! The nice thing about Amazon was the price without shipping charges. The Amana bit I was ordering was $82 versus $87 at Routerbitworld ($1 shipping). After adding the shipping, Amazon was more expensive!
The Kreg clamps were cheaper at Amazon but I ordered elsewhere because of Amazon's new policies. Yeah, I paid $10 shipping. My money, my choice.
Total spent that day was about $200 that Amazon lost. Think it will put them out of business? Probably not, but maybe the $200 will keep two other companies in business!
Work safe!
A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
<<...and they make angry calls and they make tirades, and they promise never to shop there again.>>A retired guy with a phone, a customer service issue and a morning with nothing to do is truly a thing to behold!
Hi Mel,
Maybe a pseudo release is just what you needed for all your repressed anger....
Regards,
Ray
96You're welcome to anti-rant any time, as far as I'm concerned. I enjoy your philisophical posts at least as much as those on woodworking. One point I haven't seen mentioned is that Amazon seems to have agreements with a lot of third-party sellers to handle orders for them. Those items don't qualify for the Amazon free shipping, and you have to be aware of what you're ordering. For instance, 81 said he'd ordered bits/clamps/etc. I just went to Amazon and did a search for "bits" in "Tools and Hardware." Item 1 came up as a Denali 79-Piece Drill Accessory Set that's an Amazon Exclusive and eligible for free shipping on orders over $25. (Of course, it sells for $24.99.) Item 2 was a DeWalt DW2533 Tradesman Assortment for which the fine print said, "Ships from and sold by Max Tool." No mention of free shipping. Of course I don't know what 81 had in his order, but it may be that something similar confused the issue. In any case the shipping charges show up in the summary before you finalize the order, so you can always cancel it and go somewhere else. I almost bought a dust collector from Amazon, but then I discovered I'd have to pay for shipping it from Florida. Fortunately, I didn't need it right away.Dan
If the product is being offered by Amzon.com, for the most part, it is eligible for free shipping. If the product is being listed by Amazon but being sold by a third party (there are lots of Amazon "storefronts", especially where specialized woodworking hardware is concerned), then it is not being shipped by Amazon.com; hence, you pay shipping according to the third party seller's shipping policies.
I'm with you. The free freight was always a factor in my purchasing. Also, I usually order by phone. I haven't really been satisfied with their catalogs since they took over Tool Crib.
Hi there! Perhaps you could educate the ignorant (me). Just went on Amazon and checked out their Super Saving Shipping policy. It's still in effect. Then went into Tools and Hardware and found everything from table saws to turnbuckles (actually a lot of stuff over $25) quoted as eligable. So, given that others are up in arms also can you or someone let me know where this info is coming from? TIA
TIA, the knowlege travels at slightly less than the speed of light, and if you are an Amazon spy, you are in trouble. I have questioned a sales rep. on the phone and realized that I was talking to a strange country, who had no clue -other than the script provided- to answer my questions for a $2,500 item. NO SALE. Bad terms, see ya. Paddy.
Here is the policy. What's the beef?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/002-6758175-8296808?ie=UTF8&nodeId=527692
Are you sure the items you were buying come from Amazon and not one of its storefront companies?
hello,
I am quite a happy customer of Amazon. I have ordered lots of stuff from them, including refurbished tools and recently a Delta Unisaw that was delivered for $1140. On that order I spoke to customer service on two occasions and was greeted with helpful personnel, on both occasions they were able to answer my questions.
Like always you have to shop around for the best deal, and include ALL costs (shipping too). Several large items were cheaper to buy locally (BS and Planer). I live in Canada and have to drive three hours to the US border to pick up my stuff, but for some items it is well worth it. The Unisaw cost almost double that locally.
You guys shouldn't complain, it would be nice to have a company like Amazon.com deliver to my door.
Nathan
With all due respect, if this is your worst problem...I wish I had YOUR problems. I've been doing business with Amazon since there has been an Amazon.com. They've saved me a ton of money, and I hope they continue to do so. Nothing last's forever, and things change all the time. Roll with the punches and keep all your options open...
Jeff
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled