Sad, another southwest VA furniture mfg’r is closing shop and moving production to china. I can remember when southside VA had tons of furniture factories.
http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/246777
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Replies
Suppose we could rent the space for personal shop work? Yikes, it will never open again once it turns into a warehouse. Someday the Chinese will have an ecological disaster on their hands, and things will change, but that will years away. Tough business to be in.
Morgan
I now do all I can to avoid anything made in China. Start it as a contest in your family. The only thing fueling this is DEMAND; curb demand and the problem will lessen considerably.
Federal trade adjustment
I noticed a piece in that article that mentioned Federal Trade Adjustment assistance.
Now how in the world can a broke Govt. expect to train and re-educate all of those displaced by jobs lost to china ? Yes that's a little c in china.
I have friends who live in that area..they say unemployment is really about 30%.. this won't help. America better get a grip on what's happening..globalization only hurts america in the long haul. we're no longer the overwhelming manufacturer on earth, and all the rules and rgs, and lawyers are the reaon why(as previously stated). Like Tiger Woods, when you're #1, there';s only one direction you can possibly go.....and we've been heading that direction for 10+ years.....
Cheaper to have it built overseas
Bones:
Several industries have closed USA manufacturing facilities in favor of producing products overseas and importing them for sales in the USA. Sure labor over there is cheaper, but so are all operating costs. They don't have all of the government regulations to deal with we have here (or high litigation issues). We still produce a ton of goods in this country, but machines now do most of the work.
I feel sorry for the people, they are not going to find other jobs they are trained for. Back in the 1980's the development of the micro computer created a new multibillion dollar industry that bailed us out of the economic decline of the Jimmy Carter years. Then the Internet gave Clinton an economic boost. There is nothing on the horizon to pull us out of this downturn any time soon. Meanwhile, we keep sending what jobs we have overseas.
gdblake
Competition is the best thing that can happen to a business or an individual.
Grow the teeth and claws to survive against all comers, or die.
We don't "have" jobs. Jobs don't belong to anyone. You hold a job by being better, faster, stronger at a lower price. The instant that someone will do it better, faster and at a lower price, they get the job. Jobs only go elsewhere when someone else wins the competition.
Note that it works both ways. If a job goes overseas, you can bring it back, and hold it.
I don't feel sorry for anyone. Hold your job, in the face of all changes and competition, find a new one, or be unemployed. There are no other choices.
But I will grant you that it's much easier to make insignificant posts on the internet than it is to recover and hold a job.
So I understand your posts.
No one has any idea what is going to happen next, anymore than the pilgrims or the Apache could have predicted the effects of child porn on the internet. Before electricity was widespread, (not all that long ago) there simply was no way to predict the internet. It just wasn't possible. The only constant is change.
So be aware that change is coming, that it will be drastic, and that the choices will remain the same: win the competition, tear your own job away from everyone else in the world, or do without a job.
Same as it ever was.
teeth and claws
You make some excellent points, Jammer, the central point (as I read your comments) being attitude. That is, with the right attitude, one can overcome many adversities. But, it's really more complicated than that.
It seems to me that the U.S. became the premier manufacturer in the world as a result of combining the pioneer "American spirit" with innovation and ample natural resources, all the while caring little about the environmental effect of what we were doing. We essentially did the same as the new overseas manufacturing centers are doing now. As we became more sensitive to environmental repercussions, however, we added regulations to manufacturing that complicated matters and added costs to our manufactured goods. At the same time, we depended on labor unions to increase our wages, while expecting government to protect our jobs or create new ones. That was a major shift in the American attitude. And, the pace of change in attitude has increased almost exponentially. Many people now feel "entitled" to a "middle-class" life style, even if they aren't willing to actually work for it. We continue to expect unions to get us better wages, but want to buy less-expensive goods from retailers like Walmart, in turn putting more pressure on other American manufacturing jobs. We want the government to "provide" (jobs or welfare, healthcare, etc.) but refuse to acknowledge that the money the government has to do so comes from us.
I don't have solutions for any of these issues, except to suggest that our attitudes and expectations need to change.
Well said Ralph. In time China will realize the full impact of their environmental disasters, and they too will develop. Much like Japan after WWII and Taiwan in the 80's. The real problem for China is that human life is culturally viewed as cheap, and this may delay the changes.
I don't see the US opening any big furniture factories any time sooner or later. The facility cost will be prohibitive.
Big Factory
I go along with that.
Given a worker who builds furniture, and a furniture job that went to China, though, I don't believe that worker needs a big factory to work in.
The worker needs an income, not (necessarily) a job, and he certainly doesn't need a factory. If he chooses to remain in the furniture industry, that income need be no further away than his/her basement, and the initial investment need be no more than the hand tools necessary to create and sell the first piece.
Thinking it over, an income could be produced with an initial investment as small as four or five pieces of sandpaper.
The finish material itself could be paid for by the first client, in advance.
I can't really think of smaller investment that stays connected to the furniture industry, but I'm thinking about it
jobs and income
While I agree that a "factory" job isn't required to stay in the furniture-making business, other threads have discussed the challenges facing those who make furniture on their own. The price point expected by the typical consumer is more in line with the income level of the foreign worker. Thus, independent furniture makers generally seek out the atypical consumer - buyers who are willing to pay a higher price for "hand-made" furniture. That way, the income level is better aligned with the local cost of living, as opposed to the cost of living in the foreign land. I'm pleased that some are able to succeed at doing so.
From a marketing perspective, if the stairway into the basement shop was long enough, one could always call the basement "China". That would allow the craftsperson to attach a label saying "Made in China". Then, the buyer would look at the label, then the price, and say, "Wow, it didn't take those Chinese workers long to unionize!" ;-)
Beware simple solutions.
If you really think that someone can just go down in their basement with a few hand tools and some sandpaper and can start to earn an income as a furniture maker, you are being very naive.
Pointy Ends
We're both talking about the pointy ends of the curve, John.
While it's probably naive to suggest it only takes a basement and hand tools, it's equally naive as well as lazy to demand a full factory before work can begin.
Although I AM tempted to earn ten bucks with sandpaper. :)
I never even vaguely suggested that it took a full factory to make furniture.
What it does take is a lot of time, effort, at least some financing, and business skills, in addition to the woodworking skills, to get a small cabinet making business up and running and it would probably take at least a few years to make it profitable under the best of circumstances, I know, I've done it. Also for most small furniture makers you need some sort of a local market, hard to come by in a rural region with over 20% unemployment.
To suggest that hundreds of laid off workers can go out and suddenly all become self employed cabinetmakers is still naive.
Agreed
I agree with all your points.
To suggest that none of those workers can survive because their factory went away is equally naive, and is the attitude that I'm arguing against.
The crux of my argument is this: you don't ever give up, no matter what happens. You don't ever depend on another, (with the possible exception of a mate, and even that is fraught with peril) be that other a factory, a union, a boss, a government or a corporation to provide your income or your next meal. Therefore, a factory "going to China" means that you find another job, you start a business, or you change careers. Any of those moves reduces the fact that the factory is now in China to a point of history in your past.
If you have a factory, use it. If you have a tablesaw, use it. If you have a Master's in business, use it.
But if you don't have any of those things, if, (as can happen) the world rises up and declares that all possibility of holding your job is gone, set the alarm, get up, grow your teeth, sharpen your claws, and figure out how to tear your income away from the rest of the world. I vastly prefer the company of hookers to that of welfare mothers.
In any of those cases, don't ever pity me. I won't need it, and pity usually offends me.
Even if you see me sitting quietly in a corner, going over broken claws with sandpaper.
In hindsight, it may be the pity that drew me into this thread, and it may be that I went about attacking it erroneously.
In that case, I offer my apologies to any I've offended.
In regards to my post you don't understand anything
Jammersix:
The general tone of your post is offensive. I agree with you in general about competition and no one "owns their job". Business is tough, companies and people must adapt to stay in the game and remain profitable. I've made four significant career changes in my life. A couple of them because conditions beyond my control forced me to go in a different direction. I didn't sit around and cry about it. The other two were purely my choice. With each change, I decided what direction to go in. I took the risks, and live with the consequences. I don't have an entitlement mentality. I produce and earn, I don't take.
There is nothing wrong with feeling empathy for someone in a difficult situation, you should try it sometime. It doesn't matter how well these people did their jobs. Conditions beyond their control took them away. It is easy to say work faster, smarter, cheaper than the next guy "Grow the teeth and claws to survive against all comers, or die". Sure, these folks are going to have to get tough, move on, develop new skills, and do whatever it takes to survive. Many will have to relocate and lose everything they currently have. Given the current state of the economy, it isn't going to be easy for any of them and some will never recover. So excuse me for feeling sorry for them.
And by the way, I've noticed in your posts you are quick to give your two cents about stuff you know nothing about. Have a good day.
gdblake
Reactions?
Blake, do you actually know any of these folks?
Have any of them thrown your pity back in your face, or has your pity made them angry?
Well, you got me, no I don't know any of them personally.
Jammersix:
I don't need to know someone personally to recognize they are in for hard times. I've seen and lived through adversity and don't wish it on anyone. I wish I had the free time to take a road trip with you and go visit these people. I'd tell them I'm sorry for their job loss and acknowledge they are going to have to make some sacrifices to put their lives back together. You could tell them "grow the teeth and claws to survive against all comers, or die". Then we could stand back and see which statement made them angry.
Personally, I don't feel sorry for people who are lazy, make little effortI've, and play the victim role. Nor do I care for corporate heads of public companies making millions per year while they mismanage the company into the ground. Those people think they are entitled to lavish lifestyles regardless of how incompetent they are. Same goes for most politicians, they are takers and users.
You still don't get it. I doubt very much the bulk of these people have an entitlement mentality or that they ask for too much out of life. I don't know what you do for a living or what sacrifices you have made to get where you are. My guess is that you are a hard worker and self reliant. I also guess you haven't taken a hard hit in life. If you have then I feel sorry for you as well because it made you a bitter instead of a better person.
gdblake
As You Wish
My personal history is not at issue here, any more than yours is.
However, I would caution against offering pity where it isn't wanted. Sometimes, pity is appropriate. Mere money, careers or jobs isn't one of them, particularly in a culture that values the ability to earn a living.
Another difference between us is that I won't say that you don't get it, or that you don't understand.
I trust this closes out our discussion?
If not, then I have a suggestion. If you ever become unemployed, all you need to do is post here. I will respond immediately, in public.
That way, everyone here, everyone you know, your family, as well as millions of strangers can know that at one of the low points in your life, I felt sorry for you.
At that point, I'll take your word for it, and you can let us all know how that feels, and whether my sympathy and my post helped.
Jammersix, I'm truly touched, you got your wish
Jammersix:
I am truly touched that you care. As it so happens the company I worked for went under six months ago due to lack of business. Finding a new source of income hasn't been easy and now my wife is at risk of losing her job of twenty years due to cut backs. Thanks for feeling sorry for me, it helps just knowing I'm cared about. Tell you what, let me return the favor. If you ever lose your source of income, or something else that really matters to you, just let me know. I'll respond by telling you to either get tough or die. Yea, the subject is now closed.
gdblake
So Be It
As promised, I feel sorry for you.
Really.
I'm going to make a whole lot of silly and flame worthy comments
If making furniture in the US is so critical to our country's well being, please sell all of your tools immediately. That's right, it's your fault, Mr Selfish. The demise of the VA furniture factory is not because of Van Buren, Polk, Carter, Clinton, Obama, or what ever presidential Democrat is on your naughty list, but that you..yes, you.. bought Deltas and Powermatics and DeWalts to make your own furniture - thus denying the American factory the abiliy to sell you something.
And...all the stuff you made for family and the occasional client... not made by a factory. You took the sale away. Why don't you just bundle up another American job and send it off shore? Here's the address - Over There.
So the solution is obvious. A voluntary boycott of all tool purchases A DIY Prohibition. If we give up tools, then factories will have to spring to life and fill orders, according to the law of supply and demand. Let's all write nice letters to Tom Lie Nielsen and say "Please stop what you're doing. You are killing America."
Fine Woodworking would still exist, but the forum would be filled with comments like "Geez, I wish the magazine would run armoire comparos, because it's hard to know if Mako or Ethan Allen is better." I can't wait for the 1,000 post thread on the Scary Waxing system of lubricating wooden drawer runners.
++++
The significance of 1995 is not only that I got married, but I bought a table and 6 chairs. They came from over seas, as did my bride. And in parallel with her legal attainment of US citizenship, we also naturalized the table and chairs, so it's cool. I'm just saying that foreign made isn't a bad thing, even though a local girl stays single. Perhaps the local girl wouldn't have been so hard-to-get if she knew there was alternate sourcing.
++++
My projects are stave drums, and I sometimes buy drum hardware that is made "here", which supports the vendor that is "here". But I'm a realist. Buying foreign made parts is cheaper, like a lot cheaper. I can buy foreign made lugs for $6, when lugs made "here" are $10 and up. Strainers are $30-80 for boutique-made, $15 for foreign-made churned out of a factory filled with human robots. We consumers have choices to make, when a healthy marketplace provides those choices.
Cheers,
The King
Table
King Kong,
If you plan on moving to Arizona, just be sure your table has valid papers proving it was naturalized.....
AZMO
PS I am doing my best on the buying tools part... but addictions are hard and I may need an intervention.
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